How are we saved?

[wardrandolph]

I just got home from work and after reading the replies to this thread a couple of posts I’d like to address.First,nobody has said Priests can save anybody.The Sacraments were instituted by Our Lord and Saviour,Jesus Christ.Its not up to me or anyone else to change any of them.I believe we should confess Jesus as our Saviour but if all we do is talk the talk but not walk the walk,we are fooling ourselves.It is because of our Lords Sacrifice,His obediance(not my will but thy will be done)that allows any of us to have the Blessed Hope of spending eternity with our Lord.Mouthing the words only is not taught in Sacred Scripture or Sacred Tradition.I think some posters are reading things into what we are saying.May our Lord Jesus help us all to respectfully communicate with each other.Peace,Rocky.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Water baptism is simply symbolic of the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord. This act has no saving power. If one believes that it saves, then one comes up a wet sinner.

Peace, Golfjack

The Necessity of Water Baptism Proved from Scripture

The New Testamemt writers indicate that baptism is necessary for salvation in the following verses of scripture.

Mark 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Acts 2:37-39
37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

Acts 22:16
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

Titus 3:4-7
4But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

1 Peter 3:20-21
when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I believe we Evangelicals and Catholics can agree on the most important doctrine of all, which is how to stay out of hell, and get rid of all this religious legalism.

   Peace,   Golfjack

Evangelicals don’t even agree with evangelicals.

God bless

 

[Randy_Carson]

So solo scripture or not the Bible is the main authority and no person or group can change that. Baptism, Sacrements, Priest, good works can not save you only your repetance and acceptance of Christ as Lord and Savior can save you. Then you will do works not be saved, but because that is the New saved you.

The Catholic Church does not now nor has it ever taught that we are saved by works. That dog don’t hunt.

As for baptism, sacraments and the priesthood, all of these things were established by Jesus for us and for our salvation.

Study, study, study the New Testament, and you will see that this is true.

 

[Randy_Carson]

OK Mark, I understand you better now. So, what part of man is saved by the blood, spirit, soul, body ( 1 Thess. 5:23)? I think if you Catholic’s understand that man has a three-fold nature, then I believe we Evangelicals and Catholics can agree on the most important doctrine of all, which is how to stay out of hell, and get rid of all this religious legalism.

Peace, Golfjack

What “religious legalism” are you referring to?

 

[golfjack]

Again, it seems when you guys see baptism, you see to think it means water baptism. Mark 16 talks about believing first, which salvation is obtained by faith. Then we should get water baptized, but it doesn’t mean we are not saved. It is an outward expession of our faith. Acts 2 is talking about being baptized in the family of Jesus. Notice, it doesn’t say in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The other verses you gave me are also used symbolically. To me, it is ridiculous to think that water can save us. I serve a God who is not silly, but a God who is Able.
Peace, Golfjack

 

[po18guy]

It just amazes me how some don’t know how to be saved and depend on things like water baptism and other sacraments to be saved.

You are amazed by so many things! How about the words of Jesus in Matthew 28? Get baptized, or explain to Jesus why you didn’t believe Him! He gave us each of the Sacraments. You just don’t believe it.

I believe it is all important that we pay personal attention to our eternal welfare, and that we not trust the best of men in the matter. If we permit men to mislead us in eternal matters and are lost, it will be too late to personally see after our welfare.

But, it was MEN who told you that you don’t need baptism! It was MEN who came up with that idea about 100 years ago. Will MEN save you?

Don’t take the attitude that you cannot be deceived. Don’t take the attitude that your church is the only right one and that it cannot mislead you. Your church may be the right its teaching concerning the New Birth, but make certain by going to the Bibler yoursdelf, and seeing with your own eyes, and knowing with your own heart, that you are right with God, that you have the real New Birth, andf that you are living right with Godf every day.

Unless we believe in the CC, there is absolutely no reason to be associated with her. I wish that you would subject your own faith community to such a strict test.

You see, the trouble is in the heart. Culture, refinement, and outward correctness of life, in the organized church or out of it, cannot take the place of the new birth. It you don’t believe me, study mark 7:21-23.

We study the entire bible. Sound bites are fine for the news, but not for salvation.

Please, please accept Jesus by inviting Him into you hearts and by confessing Him as your personal Lord and Savior ( Rom. 10:9-10).

Um, this is called celebrating the Mass. Now, you are speaking from pure ignorance of the Catholic Church. Please learn before you criticize! Why not attend a mass?

 

[PJM]

=JJ59;5136515]Hi everyone.

I was wondering: How are we saved?

Please read Jn. 3:5 on Baptism

Mt.19:16 on the Commandments

Mt. 16:19 on the Keys (way) to heaven

Jn.20:23 on the absolute nedd for the sacramnet of Confession

1 Jn. 5: on the two natures of sin.

1 Petter 1:3-12 on salvation

Heb. 5: 8-10 on salvation

James Ch. 2 on Works and salvation

2 Tim. 3: 14-18 on salvation.

Do this and you’ll begain to understand what is necessary

I mean, I consider the Catholic Church to be authoritative, but I can’t seem to get a straight answer when it comes to salvation. (In contrast, Protestants have a straight answer, “Believe in Jesus”.) I even checked the CCC and it made zero sense. Can someone please give me a short, simple answer to the question? Specifically:

i) I’ve heard it been said “Grace alone”. If so, how do we receive that grace?

Their are many kinds of grace. For example “actual grace stem from good works”. See James Ch. 2. “Sacramnetal grace” stem from proper reception of the Sacraments. Especially Batism, Holy CCommunion (Jesus Himself not a mere sign or symbol), and Confession. Mt. 16:19 and Jn. 20:21.

ii) Where is this in the Bible?

Here is the VERY SHORTED list:
Rom. 5;1, 5:15. Eph. 2:8, Eph.1:5-7, Rom.6:14, 2 Tim.1: 8-10

QUOTE] iii) What of the verses like “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved” (Acts 16:31) and “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Romans 10:9)? How do they fit into the Church’s teaching?

Read mt.16:19, Jn.20:21, and 1 Jn. 5, Lk.8:11-15, James 4:8, and again this is the shorted list.

Thanks!!!

(Oh, and by the way, I’m not trying to be pesky, I’m honestly looking for answers. Thanks!)

God bless you friend, if you need more information ask and I’ll tell you how to verify the TRUTH!

Love and prayers.

Do look up all of these verses, you’ll be very glad that you did!

 

[golfjack]

Po 18, Why don’t we get to the point? When I was 37, and a Catholic, I got down on my knees, asked, how do I stay out of hell. I remember saying I can’t do all things the Church tells me to do. I told Him I go to confession on Sat. and by the middle of the next week, I am in the same condition of what you guys call mortal sin. I said please help me. Well, it wasn’t too long that a Baptist friend of mine handed me a tract, which I read, and finally by faith accepted and trusted that Jesus did it all for me.

I am very passionate about telling people about Jesus. I did leave the Catholic church for many reasons. In 37 years of being a Catholic, the only main thing I learned was that God exists. I learned about a bunch of religious things from the Catholic Church, like making the sign of the cross, praying memorized prayers, genuflicting, kneeling, going to Mass, Confession, communion, the sacraments and many other things that have nothing to do with salvation.

I just thought I would tell you where I am coming from. I know there are many saved Catholics, and hope to see you after the rapture. But, there are many people sitting in church pews from all over the Christian world that are not saved. I wish you Catholic’s the best in your Ministries. God bless you.
Peace, Golfjack

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I just thought I would tell you where I am coming from. I know there are many saved Catholics, and hope to see you after the rapture. But, there are many people sitting in church pews from all over the Christian world that are not saved. I wish you Catholic’s the best in your Ministries. God bless you.

  Peace,   Golfjack

Rapture? Where can that be found in the Bible?

 

[golfjack]

PS, I believe the last Pope believed in the rapture or catching away. As far as end times goes, I believe Catholic theology has many different views. By the way, please don’t stay in Purgatory too long, so I can meet you. Ha, Ha
Peace, Golfjack

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

PS, I believe the last Pope believed in the rapture or catching away. As far as end times goes, I believe Catholic theology has many different views. By the way, please don’t stay in Purgatory too long, so I can meet you. Ha, Ha

    Peace,    Golfjack

That didn’t answer the question. Where is “rapture” found in scriptures?

 

[Mark77]

Po 18, Why don’t we get to the point? When I was 37, and a Catholic, I got down on my knees, asked, how do I stay out of hell. I remember saying I can’t do all things the Church tells me to do. I told Him I go to confession on Sat. and by the middle of the next week, I am in the same condition of what you guys call mortal sin. I said please help me. Well, it wasn’t too long that a Baptist friend of mine handed me a tract, which I read, and finally by faith accepted and trusted that Jesus did it all for me.

I am very passionate about telling people about Jesus. I did leave the Catholic church for many reasons. In 37 years of being a Catholic, the only main thing I learned was that God exists. I learned about a bunch of religious things from the Catholic Church, like making the sign of the cross, praying memorized prayers, genuflicting, kneeling, going to Mass, Confession, communion, the sacraments and many other things that have nothing to do with salvation.

I just thought I would tell you where I am coming from. I know there are many saved Catholics, and hope to see you after the rapture. But, there are many people sitting in church pews from all over the Christian world that are not saved. I wish you Catholic’s the best in your Ministries. God bless you.

  Peace,   Golfjack

God Bless You, my beloved Brother Golfjack!

i was too lazy and cowardly to really embrace the Catholic faith for nearly 40 years. i wanted to find any reason to prove that it was just a bunch of garbage, made up by old guys in Rome…?

I bought into the world’s incremental lies, first it’s just you and Jesus, just say "I accept Jesus into my heart as my “personal” savior, then i fell for the “it’s all made up lie” and you are a “good” person lie, so you can decide yourself!

i ended up stealing money from the people i worked for because i felt that they had betrayed my hard work and successful efforts which made them millions of doillars in profits` and they owed it too me, so it’s not wrong…

i made myself God, i decided what was right and wrong!

i ended up destroying the lives of my wife and 3 children, and spending 14 months in prison for my sins!

You obviously love Jesus!

What if Jesus really did give St. Paul the keys, what if Jesus really wanted to leave us the Eucharist, His Body, Blood Soul and Divinity, for our Spiritual food along this exile, this journey?

What if, just like when Jesus Himself selected and taught the Apostles who were weak, uneducated, who denied and betrayed Him, what if He really did leave the Catholic Church (not the sinners who make up the Church!!) to guide us???

**Read the Catechism and try to honestly disprove anything the Church teaches.
**
Believe me, i wanted to find a way out, a loophole, because the Truth is not easy. Jesus asked his Apostles to give up everything, to witness despite torture and death, and He asks us to do the same!

It is not about me, or you, it is only about the Truth of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior!

**“This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.” **(Mt 17:5).

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark

 

[denwiles]

Rapture? Where can that be found in the Bible?

He is exactly right!!! Pope John Paul II was the greatest Pope who ever lived in my opinion. And weather you believe it or not He did believe in the rapture as many Catholics do. He also singed the Agreement with the Luther Church in 1994 that Martin Luther was right and salvation is a gift apart from works, as I told you in an earlier post. I have been dealing with Protestant and Catholic fights my whole life, sad to say. Thats way I claim to only be a Christian and not a Catholic even though Our Lady of Sorrows is where I serve and worship. And Brother Catholics are Just as divided, you just truly hate Protestants and one day before the Lord that will be your down fall. We must love all, even our enemies. Rapture or no Rapture when you die all that matters is that you truly know, and the Lord truly knows you. You just had to say “Rapture, wheres that in the Bible?” Why??? Hopefully not to start a fight. The brother even if He is not going to the Catholic Institution, I say that because we are the church. Hello!! If all the people left you only have empty buildings. He is still serving the Lord and Loves his Catholic Brothers and Sisters. Oh my Goodness I hate to break it to everone, but Jesus and Mary aren’t Catholic. God Truly Bless you and remember Jesus is for all, even those pesky Protestants you hate.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

He is exactly right!!! Pope John Paul II was the greatest Pope who ever lived in my opinion. And weather you believe it or not He did believe in the rapture as many Catholics do. He also singed the Agreement with the Luther Church in 1994 that Martin Luther was right and salvation is a gift apart from works, as I told you in an earlier post. I have been dealing with Protestant and Catholic fights my whole life, sad to say. Thats way I claim to only be a Christian and not a Catholic even though Our Lady of Sorrows is where I serve and worship. And Brother Catholics are Just as divided, you just truly hate Protestants and one day before the Lord that will be your down fall. We must love all, even our enemies. Rapture or no Rapture when you die all that matters is that you truly know, and the Lord truly knows you. You just had to say “Rapture, wheres that in the Bible?” Why??? Hopefully not to start a fight. The brother even if He is not going to the Catholic Institution, I say that because we are the church. Hello!! If all the people left you only have empty buildings. He is still serving the Lord and Loves his Catholic Brothers and Sisters. Oh my Goodness I hate to break it to everone, but Jesus and Mary aren’t Catholic. God Truly Bless you and remember Jesus is for all, even those pesky Protestants you hate.

You still did not provide a source. Why? On an apologetics forum, if you don’t provide sources for things such as you said, it didn’t happen.

I did not bring rapture up. As some of our Protestant brothers and sisters have pointed out, the term “purgatory” is not in the Bible, yet when I ask where one of their beliefs is in scriptures, I am wrong. Again, I remind you, this is an apologetics forum where we discuss different views. It’s not fighting, it’s defending one’s faith.

You said previously, there are millions of Catholics like you, Surely there should be a “few” on these forums to support what you’re saying. Where are they?

Lastly, you have me wrong. I do not hate anyone. I believe in God’s great economy, there are many Christians, Catholic and Protestant, that will be saved.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

He is exactly right!!! Pope John Paul II was the greatest Pope who ever lived in my opinion. And weather you believe it or not He did believe in the rapture as many Catholics do. He also singed the Agreement with the Luther Church in 1994 that Martin Luther was right and salvation is a gift apart from works, as I told you in an earlier post. I have been dealing with Protestant and Catholic fights my whole life, sad to say. Thats way I claim to only be a Christian and not a Catholic even though Our Lady of Sorrows is where I serve and worship. And Brother Catholics are Just as divided, you just truly hate Protestants and one day before the Lord that will be your down fall. We must love all, even our enemies. Rapture or no Rapture when you die all that matters is that you truly know, and the Lord truly knows you. You just had to say “Rapture, wheres that in the Bible?” Why??? Hopefully not to start a fight. The brother even if He is not going to the Catholic Institution, I say that because we are the church. Hello!! If all the people left you only have empty buildings. He is still serving the Lord and Loves his Catholic Brothers and Sisters. Oh my Goodness I hate to break it to everone, but Jesus and Mary aren’t Catholic. God Truly Bless you and remember Jesus is for all, even those pesky Protestants you hate.

A few posts back, I told you faith vs. faith plus works was more semantics than a disagreement. I tried to explain to you that works is our response to God’s love. Below is what I found.

The declaration acknowledges that good works are a genuine response to God’s grace—not the cause of it.

It does not say Martin Luther was right.

 

[juliamajor]

He is exactly right!!! Pope John Paul II was the greatest Pope who ever lived in my opinion. And weather you believe it or not He did believe in the rapture as many Catholics do. He also singed the Agreement with the Luther Church in 1994 that Martin Luther was right and salvation is a gift apart from works, as I told you in an earlier post. I have been dealing with Protestant and Catholic fights my whole life, sad to say. Thats way I claim to only be a Christian and not a Catholic even though Our Lady of Sorrows is where I serve and worship. And Brother Catholics are Just as divided, you just truly hate Protestants and one day before the Lord that will be your down fall. We must love all, even our enemies. Rapture or no Rapture when you die all that matters is that you truly know, and the Lord truly knows you. You just had to say “Rapture, wheres that in the Bible?” Why??? Hopefully not to start a fight. The brother even if He is not going to the Catholic Institution, I say that because we are the church. Hello!! If all the people left you only have empty buildings. He is still serving the Lord and Loves his Catholic Brothers and Sisters. Oh my Goodness I hate to break it to everone, but Jesus and Mary aren’t Catholic. God Truly Bless you and remember Jesus is for all, even those pesky Protestants you hate.

i think your being a little harsh on Prodigal or maybe I’m missing something.The only thing that i saw him write was his questioning where the “rapture” was in the bible. that ain’t exactly a hatred filled sentence. it’s just a question. not all Protestants believe in the Rapture, so it’'s not a particularly catholic question. II do not particularly buy the rapture but my salvation doesn’t rely on it. But I don’t find questioning it as a negative

 

[Canto]

He also singed the Agreement with the Luther Church in 1994 **that Martin Luther was right **.

A creative spin if I may say.

 

[Canto]

Again, it seems when you guys see baptism, you see to think it means water baptism. Mark 16 talks about believing first, which salvation is obtained by faith. Then we should get water baptized, but it doesn’t mean we are not saved.

Jesus says unless you are born of water and Spirit you can’t get into heaven.

The council of Carthage 200s and Justin, Augstine, Basil etc etc etc all say this water and Spirit is baptism

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall he condemned.

So to be saved we have to believe AND be baptised
Just becuase believes is utterd first doesn’t change things
He said believe and, not believe and be saved and then later be baptised

 

[po18guy]

Po 18, Why don’t we get to the point? When I was 37, and a Catholic, I got down on my knees, asked, how do I stay out of hell. I remember saying I can’t do all things the Church tells me to do. I told Him I go to confession on Sat. and by the middle of the next week, I am in the same condition of what you guys call mortal sin. I said please help me. Well, it wasn’t too long that a Baptist friend of mine handed me a tract, which I read, and finally by faith accepted and trusted that Jesus did it all for me.

You were never well catechized. That is admitted to by the Church leadership, and has been a great problem over the past 30-40 years. It is a failing that only now is being addressed. It is the exact reason that you left.

Consider: you might just have accepted a tradition of less faith than that which you left. Baptists, for some odd reason, do not believe that baptism saves you, or has any power at all. This is a new belief, and is not supported by scripture. It also seems like you are still in sin, it’s just that your new faith tells you to forget about it. Well, Jesus did die to save us from our sins, but we must repent in our hearts, and seek forgiveness through those whom He sent with power over sin. That is not taught in many traditions, since they believe that you cannot lose your salvation. This is directly against the bible, and is a gross misinterpretation of scripture.

It does not appear that you ever came to belief in the Eucharist. That is the source and summit of our faith - Jesus Himself with us. Once you believe this in your heart, you cannot leave the CC without renouncing Christ. The CC loses lukewarm believers. She gains the most fervent seekers of Christ from other faith traditions. If you keep seeking Jesus at all personal costs, you will be back. It may take until your dying day, but as much as you love Christ, I believe you’ll be back.

I am very passionate about telling people about Jesus. I did leave the Catholic church for many reasons. In 37 years of being a Catholic, the only main thing I learned was that God exists. I learned about a bunch of religious things from the Catholic Church, like making the sign of the cross, praying memorized prayers, genuflicting, kneeling, going to Mass, Confession, communion, the sacraments and many other things that have nothing to do with salvation.

Amen! Here, too. You learned the physical aspects of the faith, but not the spiritual. The physical aspects of the faith should only follow the spiritual, not the other way round.

I just thought I would tell you where I am coming from. I know there are many saved Catholics, and hope to see you after the rapture.

Glad to hear it! We also differ on the whole “rapture” concept. It is another new belief that did not exist 200 years ago. The CC believes in exactly what is written: that Jesus will come on the clouds of Heaven, that we will go out to meet him. Around this bit of scripture, man has read way too much into it, I’m afraid.

But, there are many people sitting in church pews from all over the Christian world that are not saved. I wish you Catholic’s the best in your Ministries. God bless you. Peace, Golfjack

And Christ’s peace to you. However, please dig into Church history. Deep. Look at the earliest celebrations - the Apostles and early Church fathers. They believed in the Eucharist, just as Paul did. On the Lord’s day they met, confessed their sins, read scripture, then shared in the eternal sacrifice - the Eucharist. This is the exact form of the mass as it has always existed.

Follow Christ, no matter where He leads you. Do not be surprised when that journey ends up back where you started - but with a stronger desire for Him, and better catechesis.

Christ’s peace, my brother.