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Dracarys
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If he becomes I’ll we will have President Harris which would be cruel to America.
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Dracarys
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I did not ask what the Church says you CAN do but rather what you as a Catholic SHOULD do. Apparently you have not read this entire thread. I am assuming as Catholics we are both be pro life. In this election there has never been such vehement supporters of baby murder. The Biden Harris ticket wants to codify Roe vs Wade, pack the court with more than nine justices so that the majority will be pro abortion and otherwise liberal. When that occurs they will insist medical personnel perform abortions even if they object on religious grounds, they will use tax payer dollars to fund abortions, religious organizations will have to pay for abortions through their insurance plans, and they will fund and otherwise support Planned Parenthood. The Biden Harris ticket is very dangerous for the unborn.
I have never said a Biden voter will go to hell, but given the particularly strong liberal left wing bias of these candidates it is very possible a Biden Harris vote can do a lot of damage. They could be responsible for the deaths of thousands of babies. Do you want that on your conscience? Do you want to have to explain your vote to God?
It is not just abortion. The Democrat leftist will insist on pushing acceptance of gay and hate America crowd on our children in school. Liberals claim to be for freedom, but from what I’ve seen they are intolerant of the opinions of Christians.
I did not insult the Pope. I said he is the most liberal pope I have seen. Can you imagine Pope John Paul II saying and doing the things that Pope Francis does? If you are intellectually honest you will agree.
The Biden Harris ticket is NOT like the Clinton’s who had “pro choice” as a part of their platform. These two are particularly evil who will rabidly pursue and push forward their pro baby murder and other leftist causes.
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Fauken
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So if Pope Francis is liberal, does that make him intolerant of the opinions of Christians? Or only partially intolerant if he’s just the most liberal-leaning Pope you’ve ever seen?
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Dracarys
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I have already listed some of the evil things Biden Harris will do in support of abortion that even other democrats have never proposed. In other posts others and I have listed numerous things they will do to further terrible left wing policies. You have not mentioned a single positive policy they will bring to the table.
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Dracarys
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From Pope John Paul II : “The fundamental error of socialism is anthropological in nature. Socialism considers the individual person simply as an element, a molecule within the social organism, so that the good of the individual is completely subordinated to the functioning of the socio-economic mechanism. Socialism likewise maintains that the good of the individual can be realized without reference to his free choice, to the unique and exclusive responsibility which he exercises in the face of good or evil. Man is thus reduced to a series of social relationships, and the concept of the person as the autonomous subject of moral decision disappears, the very subject whose decisions build the social order. From this mistaken conception of the person there arise both a distortion of law, which defines the sphere of the exercise of freedom, and an opposition to private property. A person who is deprived of something he can call “his own,” and of the possibility of earning a living through his own initiative, comes to depend on the social machine and on those who control it. This makes it much more difficult for him to recognize his dignity as a person, and hinders progress towards the building up of an authentic human community.”
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Dracarys
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The papacy is not a democracy so by its nature Pope Francis does what ever be wants. It is precisely WHAT he says and does that makes many Catholics think he is left leaning. Surely you see that. Can you imagine any of the last several popes supporting homosexual unions? There are many other examples.
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pnewton
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Do not assume. You are not very good at it. I did read the whole thread, and have no more right to tell others what they should do when you exceed what the Church has said than to tell them what they can do. The point is that you are giving only one opinion the second you take one step past Church teaching.
Of course we are pretty much all pro-life. That is a straw man.
He says he is a conservative. His words.
Again, you should not assume. It is disrespectful. I am quite sure the Holy Father knows more of himself than you do. Also, your predictions of the future have no more reliability than any other futurist who thinks they know the future.
Do you? Does anyone? I am rather certain that no one gets to skip out of God’s judgement.
You vote your way, as does everyone. Condemnation of anyone following the Church’s guide on voting conscience is contrary to what the Church teaches.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
I can see that for people whose right-wing politics is more important to them than their Catholicism, they would think poorly of Pope Francis for espousing what they consider leftist views.
Nor does Pope Francis. The implication above is a lie spread by right-wing media. The lie is based on a misreading of the Pope’s remarks about providing for civil means for same-sex couples to share ownership of a house, perhaps file a joint tax return, in short, be allowed to live in society. That remark in no way condones what they may or may not do in private, nor does it open the door to any kind of recognition of their union as a real marriage, or grant them right to adopt children, or approve of changing elementary school books to portray their lifestyle as a normal family. None of this is Pope Francis’.
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1cthlctrth
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I don’t think I even mentioned Joe Biden’s radical record that advances abortion:
- Voted “no” on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion. (Mar 2008)
- Voted “no” on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
- Voted “no” on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)
- Voted “no” on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions. (Jun 2000)
- Voted “no” on banning human cloning. (Feb 1998)
- selected the most liberal extremist Senator according to govtrackinsider, Kamala Harris, as his running mate. Harris has a 0% pro-life voting record, according to National Right To Life Committee
- supports the current policy of abortion on demand
- voted for the Harkin Amendment to endorse Roe v. Wade, permits abortion for any reason.
- supports using tax dollars to pay for abortion, says he will overturn the Hyde Amendment
- voted for taxpayer funding of overseas pro-abortion organizations
- Biden’s voting record on pro-life issues was almost zero from 2001 to 2008, according to the National Right to Life Committee.
- stated that he will eliminate the conscience protection exemption from the Little Sisters of the Poor
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Dracarys
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I don’t see the problem here. Since you stress adherence to church teaching i rightfully assume you are pro life.
That doesn’t make it so. I’ve noticed that many liberals have a broad definition of “conservative”. Of course the Pope would never admit to having a liberal agenda.
And that is why the name of this thread I started is HOW can Catholics vote for Biden? Given that the Biden Harris ticket if elected could be responsible for tens of thousands of abortions and possibly make Catholics pay for it I want to know the thought process of Catholic Biden supporters. If you support Biden Harris and don’t want to tell us why than ignore this thread.
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Dracarys
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Good post. Biden Harris scare me so I just want to hear why any Catholic would vote for them. I know that an alarmingly large amount of Catholics will.
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Dracarys
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This is tacit approval of same sex unions. If this issue is so important why didn’t Pope John Paul II or Benidict make this comment?
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
I disagree. It is not approval, it is tolerance and civil rights.
A question is not an argument. In this case it is an irrelevant question at that.
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Dracarys
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The civil union would not be needed had the two individuals not be engaged in the abomination of homosexual sodomy in the first place. Having a pope say that homosexuals can be civily married lends legitimacy to their sin.
Don’t you think this issue was brought up to prior popes? This is nothing new. There is a reason they declined to support civil unions. Precedents set by other popes is hardly irrelevant.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
You have no right to accuse someone of sodomy without evidence. They may be sinners, but even sinners have civil rights.(Thank goodness, because we are all sinners.)
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Dracarys
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Evidence? If you have two homosexuals who are married what do you think they are doing?
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Dracarys
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This thread has occasionally diverted, but I don’t want the overall message that Biden Harris vehemently support abortion and will want to make Catholics pay for it. When Catholics go to the polls i hope they strongly reconsider if they want to vote democrat. This election may be the most important we have ever had.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
First of all there are no longer any anti-sodomy laws, and I know of no Church effort to reinstate them. Secondly, they aren’t married. Pope Francis did not approve of a marriage for them. He said civil union. All that should mean is that they can jointly own a house, and visit each other in the hospital, and maybe file a joint tax return. If you are so opposed to that, what do you say to the right of two unmarried people to do the same thing? Or two atheists? Or two Satan-worshippers? Certainly allowing two Satan-worshippers to have a government-recognized union does not in any way approve of their Satan-worshipping.LeafByNiggle:
Evidence? If you have two homosexuals who are married what do you think they are doing?
This thread started out as finding ways to denigrate Joe Biden for his faulty Catholicism, which frankly is fairly easy to do. I am quite surprised that anyone would think that the best way to get at Joe Biden was to denigrate the Pope. I think you have lost sight of your goal.
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ValleyCatholic
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No, he has recently stated he is open to packing the courts.
You are lying to yourself. I’m not pro Trump, but you are deceiving yourself if you think you can vote for Biden and be a good Catholic.
You are lying to yourself. I’m not pro Trump, but you are deceiving yourself if you think you can vote for Biden and be a good Catholic.
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1ke
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No. He didn’t.
But this is a attempt at side tracking. The courts are not the main issue in the world, and if the number of justices change, so be it. If their term becomes limited rather than life appointment, so be it. If it stays at nine and life appointment, so be it.
Thinking the court is the first or best way to get what you want is nonsense.
I did not vote for him in 2016, I voted 3rd party.
I don’t think I can be a good Catholic and vote for a mentally ill megalomaniac who may destroy the republic with his lawlessness, lying, and delusional behavior.
I’ve formed my conscience and I have no problem voting for Biden, if that is what I decide to do, or a third party candidate. I’m inclined not to waste my vote on third party this time.
I have a grave problem voting for Trump. It won’t be happening.
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