How can Catholics vote for Joe Biden

[Dracarys]

My vote is not about fighting abortion for the next 4 years. It’s about having the ability to continue to fight abortion for the next 16 years. What good are 4 years if we can’t get republicans elected again for at least a decade because Trump wrecked our credibility and reputation?

I’ve seen how my conservative friends react to Biden/Harris. But more valuable has been watching how my liberal friends have reacted to them…not exactly their top guy but whaever

Well at least you are answering why you are voting for Biden unlike many others in this thread who seem afraid. Before this COVID mess President Trump had a great economy where the stock market was advancing, personal incomes were up, and unemployment was down. Globally he made NATO finally pay their fair share, which Obama would never have done, and he negotiated peace between Israel and other middle eastern countries. The man was actually nominated for a Nobel peace award, but you don’t hear much about that from the left media.

Why care about what your liberal friends and others think about President Trump? As I have already said above Biden Harris are set to do a lot of damage to the pro life cause. Do you want Roe vs Wade to become codified law? Do you want insurance companies and taxpayers to pay for abortions?

I get that you are thinking long term, but once Biden Harris policies become ensconced in law and they pack the courts it will be almost impossible to reverse the damage a Biden administration will do.

What will we get with four more years of President Trump? We will get another good economy that actually has growth, low unemployment, law and order, the same supreme court, and no rabid pro abortion legislation.

 

[Dracarys]

For anyone to say that it is a crime against humanity for people to vote in one way or the other, is totally against the principals of our humanity. Surely we can say that God gave us this system & by it we exercise our morals, meaning we willingly participate in voting on a fair & evenly competitive rac

I may agree if the democrats had someone like the Clinton’s nominated. I did not vote for them and they were pro abortion, but the Biden Harris ticket is very adamant about far left causes and abortion in particular.

 

[Dracarys]

Another point to consider, and why character is important, is that we do not know what issues will come up within the next four years. No one foresaw COVID, for example. This is a huge pro-life issue. America has definitely taken the lead, but not in a good way. In

That comes from Democrat talking points and it’s false. Yes President Trump should have stressed mask wearing earllier, but I laugh when Biden says the president is responsible for hundreds of thousands of lives. Biden claims he could have stopped it. The COVID virus is insidious and in a free and mobile society like the United States no one, not even sleepy Joe, could have done better. The virus is rampant in Europe even though they had lockdowns, compulsory mask wearing, etc.

Abortions are intentional and totally stopable. You can’t equate the two.

 

[pnewton]

I am in good company since many clergy think the same.

argumentum ad populum. There is no evidence of how many clergy agree with the Pope any percentage of the time. Claiming this as support is a logic fallacy. You could say you are not alone. However, the very concept of using one’s own opinion as a standard of judgement is the cause, and a type of, cafeteria Catholicism. This may be the answer to your question. Perhaps other Catholics are more mainstream, that is trying to follow the Church in all areas, not just the GOP-approved ones.

 

[tafan2]

This is how I feel. While I am extremely worried about the democratic party coming to power, as they have moved to the left and rather significant part of the party can now be described as radical, I am absolutlly convinced that we need a viable pro-life national party and four more years of Trump will likely destroy the viability of the GOP.

I would submit the following article for consideration:

The Pro-life Case Against Trump - The Bulwark

While I do not buy Paulsen’s claim as to what he “hears from pro-lifers to justify supporting Trump” (I do not hear hardly any Trump supporters agreeing with the man’s shortcomings), I do think he sums up the pro-life case against Trump rather well.

None of this means I will vote for Biden. I fully accept that either Biden or Trump will win the election and be president for the next four years (if Biden wins, I will pray daily for his health), I do not feel the need at all to helping to select which of the two bad choices is in power. Since the Church teaches that voting is a moral obligation to us Catholics, I will simply do a write-in vote.

 

[1cthlctrth]

Catholic League President called President Trump the most religion-friendly President in American history.

Here are some additional religious liberty actions that I didn’t include in comment #40:

• issued an executive order allowing free speech and religious liberty for churches
• supports girls who do not want to compete against boys who pretend to be girls (like in Connecticut)
• created 1776 Commission to promote patriotic education, and to counter-act the New York Times’ hate-America 1619 Project
• supports school choice
• the Trump administration is moving forward with a policy that expands protections for religious groups on college campuses and threatens to cut federal education funding to colleges that violate free speech rules.

 

[1cthlctrth]

Joe Biden was part of one of the most corrupt Administrations (the Obama Administration) in recent times. In addition, Biden is compromised regarding foreign countries, as Biden’s family has made $-millions off of Joe Biden’s connections with China, the Ukraine, Russia, and Iraq.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Before this COVID mess President Trump had a great economy where the stock market was advancing,

Just as it was already advancing under Obama. Trump merely watched it continue rising. Some of the covid mess was inevitable, but some of it was made worse by Trump’s undermining confidence in science. So some of this covid mess is on Trump.

The man was actually nominated for a Nobel peace award, but you don’t hear much about that from the left media.

That’s because Trump was just one of the 318 nominees this year. The media did not make much about any of the other 317 nominees either. It’s nothing against Trump. It just is not that big a deal if there are 318 nominees.

but once Biden Harris policies become ensconced in law and they pack the courts…

Most experts agree that packing the courts would not be acceptable to enough Democrats for it to pass. It is very unlikely. There just isn’t enough widespread support for it. So that’s just boogey man.

What will we get with four more years of President Trump? We will get another good economy that actually has growth…

Just as likely to get that under Biden. Maybe even better, because he will listen to the science and defeat the coronavirus better than Trump.

law and order,

That is doubtful, given the unrest we have already seen on his watch.

 

[JimG]

Yes, I have been disappointed in many other GOP presidents who were allegedly pro-life, but did notthing while in office to support pro-life policies. But Trump has actually followed through with pro-life actions.

 

[Kit15]

Why care about what your liberal friends and others think about President Trump? As I have already said above Biden Harris are set to do a lot of damage to the pro life cause. Do you want Roe vs Wade to become codified law? Do you want insurance companies and taxpayers to pay for abortions?

I get that you are thinking long term, but once Biden Harris policies become ensconced in law and they pack the courts it will be almost impossible to reverse the damage a Biden administration will do.

I didn’t say I cared about what my liberal friends think of Trump. To the surprise of absolutely no one, they don’t like the Republican candidate. Absolutely nothing to take away there.

But the “them” I referred to was Biden/Harris and that reaction was much more interesting They were so “meh” on Biden because they don’t think Biden is liberal enough or he’s too milquetoast and boring to actually get anything done (for them). Harris is more exciting but still not especially beloved in that circle because of her record as a prosecutor.

Politics is a game. Most presidencies don’t go all out in the first four years because they have their re-election to think about. So you can question whether I want RvW to be codified law or taxpayer funded abortions but even if I entertained you and said I did, it’s irrelevant because these are not the things that brought him the victory. They won’t be on the table if Biden wins.

Not only is it the first 4 years, he knows he has an unusually varied tent this cycle thanks to his opponent. No…he won’t do anything too crazy, especially not with Covid. Harris either… Now 2024 is another story. If Trump and Covid are well behind us, THAT will be a more dangerous year.

 

[tafan2]

Do you expect me to defend Joe Biden? Or are you trying to convince me that I should be willing to help select between these two bad choices? Serious questions.

 

[tafan2]

I think you could be wrong about 2024. I think there is every reason to see a GOP victory in four years. As broken as the GOP is right now, due to Trump, the democratic party is even more broken due to the radical left wing of the party having such prominence. You certainly saw that in the primary season. That is pre-covid, as such it is ancient history, but the race came down to Biden against the “progressives” (far-left code word). Biden was written off. And then (again this was pre-covid), he won super tuesday decisively and locked up the nomination. Why? Because the democratic voters wanted “safe”, they were not looking for a revolution. So what happens next: the democrats will think a read a victory over Trump as a major public endorsement of radical left politics and will overplay their hand. THey will not read a victory over Trump as simply that: a victory over a very unpopular president, an election they were given by the GOP turning into a Trump-party. Meanwhile, the GOP will recover its senses in a post-Trump era and there will be viable candidates who America will see as sensible.

 

[1ke]

You obviously don’t know how government works

Obviously.

President Trump has been in office for four years and before COVID the republic was doing good.

Your opinion. Mine differs significantly.

The economy was growing, the stock market was increasing, and unemployment was down.

These are not the only things to look at. The stock market is not the arbiter of whether the Republic is doing well.

Not voting for President Trump because you don’t like him personally is immature.

Good thing I’m not casting my vote on whether or not I like him personally.

 

[whatistrue]

Meanwhile, the GOP will recover its senses in a post-Trump era and there will be viable candidates who America will see as sensible.

One would hope that the GOP would recover its senses, but I think it is also very possible that the Trump era, especially the way that so many of the so-called party leaders knew better and still knuckled under out of fear, will have poisoned the well for more than a single election cycle, or maybe even more than several cycles. If only John McCain were still with us, and there were more like him…

 

[1ke]

That’s because Trump was just one of the 318 nominees this year.

And because there is a large pool of people who can nominate.

The media did not make much about any of the other 317 nominees either.

Because the Nobel committee doesn’t release the names of the nominees. The only way people know Trump got nominated is either the nominator told the press or told Trump who told the press.

It just is not that big a deal if there are 318 nominees.

Largest cohort in the history of the prize.

 

[tafan2]

We will just have to agree to disagree with the prototype republican we are hoping to come forth and help rebuild from the ashes.
As to the problem with GOP leaders who buckled out of fear, I do agree that most did. This will always lead, in my mind, to a level of distrust of many of them. Not the end of the world, because I always had a healthy amount of skepticism regarding many politicians, even those who I tend to agree with and support. I am not so naive as to hope for a party of politicians full of virtue. But there are republicans who have kept their support of Trump more issue focused. And there is nothing wrong with this, as Trump got many issues right (he also got many issues wrong).

 

[tafan2]

Not voting for President Trump because you don’t like him personally is immature.

There are many reasonable arguments to vote for or against Donald Trump. He is a man of such questionable character that I think voting for him because of a disliking him personably is imminently reasonable. I think voting for him because you like him personally is immature. That is an argument I cannot fathom at all.

 

[pnewton]

Catholic League President called President Trump the most religion-friendly President in American history.

That is an opinion that I definitely do not share. I would put him close to the bottom.

 

[JimG]

Bill Donohue of Catholic League on EWTN World Over.

 

[1cthlctrth]

two bad choices

Comment #s 6, 40 and 169 identify President Trump’s strengths on foreign affairs, pro-life, and religious liberty.

In addition, President Trump:

• signed funding legislation in September 2018 that increased funding for school choice by $42 million and has called on Congress to pass school choice legislation so that no child is trapped in a failing school because of his or her zip code.
• Under his leadership ISIS has lost most of their territory and been largely dismantled.
• Has had over a dozen US hostages freed, including those Obama could not get freed.
• Brokered historic peace deal between Israel and the United Arab Emirates
• Withdrew the United States from the job-killing Paris Climate Accord in 2017 and that same year the U.S. still led the world by having the largest reduction in Carbon emissions.
• Also #1 in 2019 in the world in reducing carbon emissions, according to the International Energy Agency
• Record number of regulations eliminated that hurt small businesses.
• Trump signed an order allowing small businesses to group together when buying insurance to get a better price.
• Signed VA Choice Act and VA Accountability Act, expanded VA telehealth services, walk-in-clinics, and same-day urgent primary and mental health care.
• Trump increased funding for historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) by more than 14%.
• President Trump’s historic tax cut legislation included new Opportunity Zone Incentives to promote investment in low-income communities across the country.
• Poverty rates for African-Americans and Hispanic-Americans have reached their lowest levels since the U.S. began collecting such data.
• Prior to the state Governors’ business lockdowns, African-American, Hispanic-American, and Asian-American unemployment was at an all time low, women’s unemployment rate was at a 65-year low, median household income hit highest level ever recorded, and more Americans were employed than at any other time in our history.
• Companies have brought back over a TRILLION dollars from overseas because of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 that Trump signed.
• Agreed to a new trade deal with Mexico & Canada that will increase jobs here and money coming in.
• Under Trump’s leadership, in 2018 the U.S. surpassed Russia and Saudi Arabia to become the world’s largest producer of crude oil.
• Energy independence: U.S. oil production recently reached all-time high so we are less dependent on oil from the Middle East.
  https://frankreport.com/2020/04/18/...-accomplishments-of-president-donald-j-trump/