How can we reconcile the argument of intelligent design with supposed design flaws?

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Zadeth said:
Disabilities in people and animals, diseases like cancer and Alzheimer’s, as well as other things which seem to be design flaws.

If he could not create the world without these things, he is not all powerful. Or would He want suffering in the world? Then He would be evil.

How can we reconcile these seemingly flaws of design with possible intelligent design by God?

(Sorry if this is in the wrong sub forum, mods please move it if it is!)
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These are not design flaws, they are accidents in individuals of any given species, but are not generated in every individual of a species.
If every person living had skin cancer, then it would be a designed feature of the human being.

Also, you seem to be of the opinion that all meaning of being is in the temporal body of the individual - when you die, you have gotten all you would ever get, like the commercial, “You only go around once in life, so grab for the gusto…” You are blaming God because you have to look at people who don’t have the gusto, or maybe don’t have it yourself but you see others getting all the gusto…

We are not here to be defect free, but to exemplify the doing of virtuous deeds to others in the midst of the evil done by those who do vicious deeds or in the midst of an earthquake with people screaming for help.
 
The skeptical relativists should be interested to learn that design flaws are part of the design. If there were no flaws in the design, how would you know the rest of the design was so well designed? 😃
 
Charlemagne_III said:
The skeptical relativists should be interested to learn that design flaws are part of the design. If there were no flaws in the design, how would you know the rest of the design was so well designed? 😃
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So if it looks perfectly designed it must be…designed. And if it doesn’t and there obvious flaws, then…that proves it!

You gotta laugh.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
If the computer was one of the simplest things ever invented, that does not stop us from recognizing that it was invented (intelligently designed).

But the computer was invented by stages of reasoning … not by irreducible complexity.
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If you start with a human brain and then list all brains down through apes and dogs all the way down to sponges then you will see a gradual increase in efficiency and intelligence and self awareness as you come back up the line. Very incremental. Hardly noticeable.

Almost as if the brain evolved gradually, incrementally.

I guess it’s hard for some people to grasp.

Oh, and by the way, have you got a name for that irreducible complex first living organism? A Nobel prize and universal recognition and riches await.
 
Whereas the human brain may differ from that of primates and “lower” animals to only a slight degree, quantitatively, the human mind stands out like a giant redwood among the moss and grasses.
 
Aloysium said:
Whereas the human brain may differ from that of primates and “lower” animals to only a slight degree, quantitatively, the human mind stands out like a giant redwood among the moss and grasses.
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And it only takes a short time to get to here from there.
 
John_Martin said:
These are not design flaws, they are accidents in individuals of any given species, but are not generated in every individual of a species.
If every person living had skin cancer, then it would be a designed feature of the human being.

Also, you seem to be of the opinion that all meaning of being is in the temporal body of the individual - when you die, you have gotten all you would ever get, like the commercial, “You only go around once in life, so grab for the gusto…” You are blaming God because you have to look at people who don’t have the gusto, or maybe don’t have it yourself but you see others getting all the gusto…

We are not here to be defect free, but to exemplify the doing of virtuous deeds to others in the midst of the evil done by those who do vicious deeds or in the midst of an earthquake with people screaming for help.
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👍 Incontestable facts!
 
Bradski said:
So if it looks perfectly designed it must be…designed. And if it doesn’t and there obvious flaws, then…that proves it!

You gotta laugh.
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You’ve missed the point. If everything has always been perfect you wouldn’t know what imperfection is. You would realise something is different but you wouldn’t understand why…
 
tonyrey said:
You’ve missed the point. If everything has always been perfect you wouldn’t know what imperfection is. You would realise something is different but you wouldn’t understand why…
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You do come out with some zingers now and then, Tony.

If something is perfect then it will work as well as it possibly could. If something is imperfect, it wont. See my previous post about the eye if you can’t think of any yourself.

There are any number of further examples that illustrate that, far from being a piece of wonderful machinery, designed by a Master Builder, we are a hodge-podge of bits and pieces left over from previous versions which quite often serve no useful purpose let alone could be used as examples of bad design.
 
To quote some old Monty Python, "Now this is just getting silly.’ When people are tying to have a discussion and all they get are absolutes that are held, based on faith alone, the conversation is over.

Be well all,

John
 
Bradski said:
You’ve missed the point. If everything has always been perfect you wouldn’t know what imperfection is. You would realise something is different but you wouldn’t understand why…
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You are proving my point, Brad! Everything has **not **always been perfect. I quoted the Catechism to that effect. Does the word “limitations” ring a bell? 😉

The masterpiece you describe as a “hodge-podge” has never been surpassed by scientists nor have many of nature’s exquisite marvels which are still not completely understood. The challenge remains: could you or anyone else produce a feasible blueprint of a superior world to the one we inhabit - one where there is life, development, richness, variety, sensitivity and enjoyment without conflict, disease, disabilities, deformities, destruction, disasters and death?
Bionic limbs are just one example of the vast difference between human inventions and divine works of art.

The fatal flaw in your argument is that piecemeal improvements to the existing system are not an adequate substitute for a mythical Utopia. The element of chance in biological development leads inevitably to anomalies like male nipples but it does not imply that the entire biosphere with its astounding achievements could be surpassed by human inventions and discoveries. In practice scientists emulate nature and use it as a source of inspiration.
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oldcelt said:
To quote some old Monty Python, "Now this is just getting silly.’ When people are tying to have a discussion and all they get are absolutes that are held, based on faith alone, the conversation is over.

Be well all,

John
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Please give an example. :ehh:
 
Aloysium said:
Whereas the human brain may differ from that of primates and “lower” animals to only a slight degree, quantitatively, the human mind stands out like a giant redwood among the moss and grasses.
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👍 “By their fruits you shall know them”. Human achievements (both + and -) stand out far above - and below - that of other forms of life which are also miracles in their own right. No machine comes close to emulating a microbe!
 
meltzerboy said:
In Judaism, we believe the universe was intentionally created imperfectly so that we (mankind) can work to fix it in partnership with G-d. It is up to us to take up the challenge.
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I agree with you up to a point but the worst disasters cannot be reconciled with that argument. If an earthquake struck Mexico City it would become a hell on earth…
 
tonyrey said:
I agree with you up to a point but the worst disasters cannot be reconciled with that argument. If an earthquake struck Mexico City it would become a hell on earth…
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It’s amazing how people pull together in disasters though. Truly, the best and worst of human nature comes out in disasters.
 
Bradski said:
If you start with a human brain and then list all brains down through apes and dogs all the way down to sponges then you will see a gradual increase in efficiency and intelligence and self awareness as you come back up the line. Very incremental. Hardly noticeable.

Almost as if the brain evolved gradually, incrementally.

I guess it’s hard for some people to grasp.

Oh, and by the way, have you got a name for that irreducible complex first living organism? A Nobel prize and universal recognition and riches await.
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Nobody has a name for it, not even the evolutionists who are full of imaginary names! 😃
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
It’s amazing how people pull together in disasters though. Truly, the best and worst of human nature comes out in disasters.
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That is true, Christine, but it will be a completely unnecessary disaster because everyone knows it is an earthquake zone where it is only a question of time before it occurs - and even atheists cannot blame it on the God they reject…
 
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