How can you be Democratic and also be Catholic?

[TMC]

So Catholics voting Democrat are not Catholic, regardless what James Martin or Pope Francis say.

Oh, so are you the in charge of Church teaching now? What other teachings of Pope Francis are you overruling today?

 

[c4csp]

Oh, so are you the in charge of Church teaching now? What other teachings of Pope Francis are you overruling today?

I am nobody! No I am not in charge. We have what is called a deposit of faith. I have 2,000 years of history that gives me a crystal clear picture of what Catholic Church teaching is.

 

[TMC]

I am nobody! No I am not in charge. We have what is called a deposit of faith. I have 2,000 years of history that gives me a crystal clear picture of what Catholic Church teaching is.

OK, if you are not in charge, maybe don’t call the Vicar of Christ a wolf in sheep’s clothing, or declare that you understand Church teaching better than he does.

 

[nicholasG]

Which core tenants are you referring to?

 

[c4csp]

OK, if you are not in charge, maybe don’t call the Vicar of Christ a wolf in sheep’s clothing, or declare that you understand Church teaching better than he does.

He is the Vicar of Christ. However, if he contradicts Church teaching then yes I am going to hold to the history of the Church, Catechism of Trent, and to someone like the Holy Pope Pius X for what is true doctrine and teaching of Catholic faith.

What I do know is that Jesus Christ, second person of Holy Trinity, God almighty, does not will the slaughter of unborn babies in womb, He does not will homosexual marriage, He does not will people changing their gender, He does not will His holy leader of His holy Church allowing a pagan idol to be worshipped in St. Peter’s Basilica. These things we know for certain God does not will.

 

[TMC]

He is the Vicar of Christ. However, if he contradicts Church teaching then yes I am going to hold to the history of the Church, Catechism of Trent, and to someone like the Holy Pope Pius X for what is true doctrine and teaching of Catholic faith.

Well, he is not contradicting Church teaching. Church teaching on voting has been clear and consistent for a long time. Tell me, what seems more plausible, that the Pope and bishops don’t understand what the Church teaches, or that c4sp doesn’t understand Church teaching? You are free to disagree with the Church if that is what you choose to do, but it seems a bit of a stretch to say that you understand the Church’s teaching, but the Pope and the bishops do not.

 

[JSRG]

I am considering not voting at all because this election I will be right back to voting for the lesser of two evils and why should I have to vote for evil at all?.

Considering voting for Brian Carroll (American Solidarity Party). He may or may not be on your state’s ballot but even if not, could always write him in.

 

[pnewton]

Why is it Catholics want to bind other Catholics to their (not the Church’s) opinions? To avoid speaking error, it is better to speak only where the Church has spoken, when positing absolutes like the OP did.

But then this poster just joined and posted this as a first strike, this thread may be more a political advertisement than a question. Might I recommend, if the question is serious, go back and read other threads that explain how this can be, or just read what the USCCB has published.

 

[pnewton]

You cannot vote Democrat and be a practicing Catholic in regards to our current Presidential election.

Things the Catholic Church has never said.

And it is blatantly false, as I assure you some practicing Catholics will vote Democrat in the current presidential election.

 

[JSRG]

TMC:

Well, he is not contradicting Church teaching. Church teaching on voting has been clear and consistent for a long time. Tell me, what seems more plausible, that the Pope and bishops don’t understand what the Church teaches, or that c4sp doesn’t understand Church teaching? You are free to disagree with the Church if that is what you choose to do, but it seems a bit of a stretch to say that you understand the Church’s teaching, but the Pope and the bishops do not.

Does it make you angry that Pope Francis allowed pacha mama, a pagan idol to be worshipped at Vatican and in St. Peter’s Basilica? Does that make you angry?

It’s hard for me to get upset because that doesn’t seem to actually be what happened. This article gives what seems to be a quite strong argument as to why the claims of “Pachamama” being “worshipped” are false:

Private Site

Note that the author, in that very article, says he believes “Pope Francis is a bad man, a terrible pope, and a heretic” so one can hardly accuse him of some kind of pro-Francis bias in this matter.

 

[TMC]

Does it make you angry that Pope Francis allowed pacha mama, a pagan idol to be worshipped at Vatican and in St. Peter’s Basilica? Does that make you angry?

This thread is about the Church’s teaching on voting, so not sure why you are bringing that up. But to answer your question, no it does not. But then I am not setting my self up to judge the Pope or saying I know the Church’s teachings better them him.

Do you actually have something to say about the topic of the thread, or are you just hear to rant about your issues with the Pope?

 

[JSRG]

But let us answer the question, is pacha mama a pagan idol? They didn’t worship it so it is all good to bring a pagan Idol into St. Peter’s Basilica? Every Catholic should be pissed off over that.

As the article I posted explains, and you presumably didn’t read, despite the popular discourse there’s actually a notable lack of actual evidence that these figures were, in fact, idols of Pachamama to begin with. The question of whether Pachamama is a pagan idol or not is irrelevant if it was never Pachamama.

 

[pnewton]

Sure, but they’re making a huge mistake in doing so. Just because many other Catholics are acting foolishly doesn’t mean we should be encouraged to follow suit.

More things the Catholic Church never said. However, Jesus did say this:

But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

 

[JSRG]

JSRG:

As the article I posted explains, and you presumably didn’t read, despite the popular discouerse there’s actually a notable lack of actual evidence that these figures were, in fact, idols of Pachamama to begin with. The question of whether Pachamama is a pagan idol or not is irrelevant if it was never Pachamama.

I saw your article. Father Mitch Pacwa disagrees with you and the article. It is a pagan idol.

Actually, that was mentioned briefly in the article (“what is not idolatry does not magically become idolatry just because Cardinals Muller and Burke, or Fr. Mitch Pacwa, say it is”) and more in-depth in the comments section:

“Fr. Pacwa did not minister in the Amazon and he makes no claim that he has (1) any knowledge that “Pachamama” is an Amazonian deity; (2) any knowledge that “Pachamama” is worshiped via idols; (3) any knowledge that “Pachamama” is worshiped by anyone via idols that look like these images; (4) any knowledge that pagan Amazonians worship idols at all; (5) any knowledge that pagan Amazonians worship idols that look like the now-famous images; (6) any knowledge that these images represent “Pachamama”; or (7) any knowledge that any of these images were objects of worship at the synod. His words are those of an ignorant bigot. The fact that he was once a missionary in the Andes and wears a Roman collar makes him no less of an ignorant bigot; indeed, it makes his willful ignorance all the more wicked and disgraceful.”

I think this will probably be my last post on this subject as it’s off-topic, further discussion is likely to be unprofitable as I doubt you will be convinced, and anyone who wants to make up their own mind can look at the article themselves anyway (here it is again). If you have further disagreement, take it up with the article’s author; there is a comments section right there.

 

[pnewton]

This is like arguing that the Bible never explicitly condemns abortion, so therefore it must be okay.

I stated a fact, not an argument. There are many statements here that go beyond Church teaching. I do not appreciate people who accuse others of being foolish or not using their brains, when that is clearly something Jesus condemned, and such a disregard for charity should not be permitted here, at least in my opinion.

It might well be that some who vote for a Democrat have a deeper understanding of morality and closer walk with God that those that complain about it.

 

[c4csp]

Actually, that was mentioned briefly in the article (“what is not idolatry does not magically become idolatry just because Cardinals Muller and Burke, or Fr. Mitch Pacwa, say it is”) and more in-depth in the comments section:

“Fr. Pacwa did not minister in the Amazon and he makes no claim that he has (1) any knowledge that “Pachamama” is an Amazonian deity; (2) any knowledge that “Pachamama” is worshiped via idols; (3) any knowledge that “Pachamama” is worshiped by anyone via idols that look like these images; (4) any knowledge that pagan Amazonians worship idols at all; (5) any knowledge that pagan Amazonians worship idols that look like the now-famous images; (6) any knowledge that these images represent “Pachamama”; or (7) any knowledge that any of these images were objects of worship at the synod. His words are those of an ignorant bigot. The fact that he was once a missionary in the Andes and wears a Roman collar makes him no less of an ignorant bigot; indeed, it makes his willful ignorance all the more wicked and disgraceful.”

I think this will probably be my last post on this subject as it’s off-topic, further discussion is likely to be unprofitable as I doubt you will be convinced, and anyone who wants to make up their own mind can look at the article themselves anyway (here it is again). If you have further disagreement, take it up with the article’s author; there is a comments section right there.

Thank you so much for clearing all that up. I feel so much better. One thing I know is that I will stick to the Catechism of the Council of Trent and Holy Popes like Pope Pius X for Catholic doctrine and morals.

 

[Anrakyr]

The facts are:

1. Democrat policies are antithetical to the catholic faith and encourage numerous mortal sins
2. Those who vote for these policies are either highly ignorant of what the Church teaches or are committing a grave evil.

We have to stop making excuses for people who are consciously or unconsciously aiding evil.

Why is that a fact?

 

[pnewton]

…and still pretend to be a devout catholic.

Jesus is the one on the throne.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

So, the Catholic church is the Republican Party now? I was discussing DJT.

I understand you were talking about President Trump and the Republican party, though we are also talking about Catholics here. My response was in reference to Catholics being pro-life and not the deceptive belief that pro-life people are only pro-birth.

But it appears that you direct it towards me as if I am on a side. I am only on the side of my own. I make my decisions based on the facts that are available to me.

I only responded to your post, not a personal attack of any kind on you.

will continue to run this country into the ground. Those of you with children will live to regret your vote,

We will have to agree to disagree here. I can only vote my conscience as it has been taught by the Catholic church.

Are there charities here in the US caring for the sick and poor?

Catholic charities, yes. I can speak for one large Catholic hospital that I work for. It cares for the sick while also providing the poor with the financial means to receive healthcare. There are others.

 

[c4csp]

There are a lot of poor Shepards in our churches today. They are quiet on the things that matter with their parish. When was the last time you heard your priest condemn abortion in a homily? Most will not touch it. Why? Because they know there are folks sitting in pews that hold those views. Those priests are poor Shepards and there are plenty. Then the result is we get many Catholics extremely ignorant of Catholic teaching and come here on forums and display it for everyone to see, thinking voting for Democrats is ok.