How can you be Democratic and also be Catholic?

[nicholasG]

Obedience to the Church?
Like the 9/11 high jackers who had obedience to their Church and believed they would be guaranteed a seat in heaven for crashing their plane into the World Trade Center?
Or like the 90 or so men women & children who had obedience to Jim Jones and drank laced Kool Aid and died?
Or like Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, they must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. I guess we decided not to follow that.

Obedience yes; NOT blind obedience.

Pro Life?
Abortion is not in the Bible. Thou shall not kill refers to persons not a fetus.

Legitimacy of the bishops?
You mean like the bishops who covered up sexual abuse by priests?

Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot of good in the Church, priests and bishops, but you always have to think. If something doesn’t sound quite right, investigate. Learn to trust your instincts.

 

[pnewton]

How would you like to face Jesus after voting to kill more innocent children?

Not on the ballot. Instead of trying to condemn others to Hell, you might read above the words of Jesus. Here are more.

Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

None of us is competent to judge the soul’s of others, others moral understanding, or spirituality, over the internet, or based on a ballot cast. The Church teaches formation of conscience. So the RNC sending people into social media to whip up votes is not the way the Church works. They send the faithful back to the catechism and the Bible, and back to prayer. Then let the Holy Spirit work.

 

[Shakuhachi]

TMC:

It is possible to agree with the Church on abortion and still decide to vote for a Democrat for proportionate reasons (I think you agree on that).

I think I’m the second post in this thread saying exactly that.

And there is an aspect not often talked about. I call it actionable proximity. Why vote for a person because he or she might have an opportunity to maybe do one thing when there are thousands of other horrendous things he or she can do immediately and frequently.

 

[Anrakyr]

You can look at Democrats’ support of killing of innocent unborn children,

Let’s put a pin in that for now.

euthanizing the elderly or depressed,

Well when you have crappy healthcare of course that’s an option. That’s not the fault of the party and I’d wager if I looked up who votes for euthanasia bills I’ll find Republicans brb:
While I didn’t find any stats either way I’ve found a large number of cross party votes on the issue in the news.

lowering of drug penalties

Because the war on drugs worked so well and wasn’t racist at all.

sexualizing children

Statutory rape is still a thing last time I looked. That was also the same time toddlers & tiaras repeat brand surround Texas but you know…

mutilating teenagers through LGBT support.

Being lesbian, gay and bi mutilated your body? I understand the comment for transgenders but they make us very small percentage of the population.
That said the amount of publicans won’t touch the issues in LGBTQ something you need to look into that as well.

voting to kill more innocent children?

see I have a problem with that because there’s currently no active bills in front of the federal government to quash abortion if there was youd be correct.

 

[pnewton]

Thou shall not kill refers to persons not a fetus.

Therein lies the rub. Is the fetus a person? The Church teaches the fetus is a person. Can you, or anyone, prove the fetus is not?

 

[Shakuhachi]

I guess we need to define “person”.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Pro Life?
Abortion is not in the Bible. Thou shall not kill refers to persons not a fetus.

Definition of abortion: the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus

Fetus definition per Cambridge Dictionary: a young human being or animal before birth after the organs have started to develop.

Medical Dictionary (and others): An unborn offspring

Offspring defintion: a person’s child or children

 

[nicholasG]

Therein lies the rub. Is the fetus a person? The Church teaches the fetus is a person. Can you, or anyone, prove the fetus is not?

No. Can you prove it is?
I already said I believe it is but that’s MY belief.

 

[Anrakyr]

I guess we need to define “person”.

A little fun science fact for everyone’s consideration:

Smaller living beings; children, have higher metabolisms based on their size to maintain body heat among other things.

Child in the womb for all intensive purposes behaves metabolism wise the same as an organ right up until the moment of birth which it gains its own metabolism rate.

Just food for thought.

 

[nicholasG]

Fetus definition per Cambridge Dictionary: a young human being or animal before birth

Before birth does not mean a person.

 

[Pattylt]

I have not read all the posts so I apologize if this has been mentioned.

When discussing US elections, the abortion issue is part of it but if you are from Britain or the EU, you would never be able to vote as both sides are pro abortion. In order to participate in their election process, they must consider all the other factors as abortion isn’t even in the cards.

Here in the US, abortion has a near zero chance of being outlawed. The Republican Party more than the Democrats need abortion on the books for fear of losing a large chunk of their constituents if it was already illegal. Everyone that is anti abortion has to weigh all the issues, not just Catholics. A vote for a Democrat is not a vote for abortion even if many want it to be. It’s a vote for a party IN SPITE of abortion. Someone on the inside has to be there if you ever want to change the platform.

 

[Anrakyr]

Here in the US, abortion has a near zero chance of being outlawed. The Republican Party more than the Democrats need abortion on the books for fear of losing a large chunk of their constituents if it was already illegal. Everyone that is anti abortion has to weigh all the issues, not just Catholics. A vote for a Democrat is not a vote for abortion even if many want it to be. It’s a vote for a party IN SPITE of abortion. Someone on the inside has to be there if you ever want to change the platform.

Well said.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Before birth does not mean a person.

Sorry, but definition of a person is: a human being regarded as an individual, individual human;

So, a fetus is a human being and a person is a human being.

I’ll repeat it one more time.
No BLIND OBEDIENCE.

There is no such thing as blind obedience if you follow Church teaching. Our obedience to Christ and His Church is called walking in faith.

 

[nicholasG]

I’ll repeat it one more time.
No BLIND OBEDIENCE.

 

[nicholasG]

I disagree with SOME of their teachings.
If you wish to follow blindly ALL their teachings, be my guest.
Good luck.

 

[Anrakyr]

I’m going to answer backing up buddy because I was him.

Here’s one of the problems; a widely accepted opinion is people who commit suicide are in hell. Now over the last couple of years that opinion has began to shift as we understand mental health more. I’m mentally depressed individual cannot be held accountable for their actions because they’re in pain so great that they are not responsible for them.

In the same vein of logic as you can’t blame a drowning person for hurting you or themselves.

Now because of these held opinions that are not doctrine it is wise to question authority. people like to hold onto archaic confuses things that have never truly ever been doctoring like suicide.

so when he says blind obedience I understand where he’s coming from please get off his back.

 

[pnewton]

No. Can you prove it is?

No, so where does the burden of proof lie? I would argue that legal precedence dictates that if one is going to take an action that might kill another person, or might not, the burden of proof is on them. That is why hunters do not shoot at “movement.” An action that may or may not result in the death of an innocent is almost always illegal, except for abortion.

 

[c4csp]

The relativism in this thread is rife!

Someone posted about Christ’s teaching on judging. That is very true. However, setting Catholic teaching straight for another is a spiritual work of mercy, admonishing the sinner. It is necessary.

Abortion is a grave evil. It is murder. It is against the will of God. If you advocate for it, vote for it, procure it, you are not professing the true Catholic faith, which places you outside the faith.

Pope Pius XII in his encyclical Mystici Corporis:

"Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. ‘For in one spirit’ says the Apostle, ‘were we all baptized into one Body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free.’ As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith. And therefore if a man refuse to hear the Church let him be considered - so the Lord commands - as a heathen and a publican. It follows that those who are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit. "

 

[Anrakyr]

Abortion is a grave evil. It is murder. It is against the will of God. If you advocate for it, vote for it, procure it, you are not professing the true Catholic faith, which places you outside the faith.

I don’t like abortion but I also know we’re not going to get ride of it.
That said I’m Norse so… As you were.

Pope Pius XII in his encyclical Mystici Corporis:

Isn’t the point here. Abortion is not the main point of a party and is not something that is not tested in the next election.
Move on.

 

[pnewton]

This has an answer. It is why I claim to be Catholic, though still a sinner. None of us here have crossed the finish line. None are perfected. We all still struggle. This is why we have to be a little more charitable with each other than those who are of the world. I have had my own struggle with the Church’s teaching on capital punishment, so I understand that learning is a process.