How Can You Not Want To Be A Catholic After Seeing The Pope ?

[Auriel]

Does that sound like someone who admires the pope???

You left out my second Post. I did concede that I admired the fact that he met with victims. I am not Catholic, so why should I see the Pope through Catholic eyes? I do not see him as you do and neither should I be expected too.

I also do believe in religious freedom, what another choses to believe is their business. And I also stated that I was molested by a MINISTER! I made it quite clear that I acknowledge that abuse happens among every religious group. In fact in this case it is much worse. He is also a suspect in a cold case involving the death of a two year old. But he hides behind his fathers name, just like others do.

Furthermore, I have no problem with wealth. I have a problem with someone having the authority to add to a list of sins, and thought it odd that an organization that wealthy would add said sin to the list.

TBH I admired the late Pope, he seemed "“kinder and gentler”. (I taped his whole funeral and cried) Then again he was the only one I ever knew of. I was too young to remember another. I do have Catholic family members. And Pagan,. Muslim, Baptist, etc…an eclectic mixture. Like I said, no group is immune from evil acts.

 

[Pinkyyy]

Because at the end of the day, all we would get is Billy Grahm. At the end of the day, in the Catholic Church, we receive Jesus.

I see, and did Jesus tell you personally that Billy Grahm does not lead people to Jesus? I believe he does.

 

[luvlife]

I see, and did Jesus tell you personally that Billy Grahm does not lead people to Jesus? I believe he does.

I think you misunderstood. Yes, Billy Grahm leads people to Jesus. He is a wonderful evangelist - God bless him.

But in the Catholic Church, we receive Jesus “literally” in the Eucharist. I believe that is what the poster you quoted meant.

 

[MementoMori3283]

I see, and did Jesus tell you personally that Billy Grahm does not lead people to Jesus? I believe he does.

No, silly, because Catholics believe that the priest, by the power of the Holy Spirit, brings Jesus to us in the Eucharist.

You asked if Catholics would follow Billy{or something to that effect}, didn’t you?

 

[MementoMori3283]

look at Billy Grahm and all the good he has done - why wouldn’t Catholics want to chose his religion?

my answer is to this question

 

[Pinkyyy]

No, silly, because Catholics believe that the priest, by the power of the Holy Spirit, brings Jesus to us in the Eucharist.

You asked if Catholics would follow Billy{or something to that effect}, didn’t you?

Ahh, I see what you are talking about :doh2:

 

[po18guy]

A) I think this is an inappropriate post for the thread, Non-Catholic Religions.
B) With this Pope, it is VERY easy to not want to!

Just as it is very easy not to be Christian. But, is it smart in the long run…?

Every Christian has a functioning Pope, whether it is the self, the pastor, the founder of the denomination, or the Book which cannot correct misinterpretation. Someone must lead. But, only one leads to unity. It is up to the individual conscience to choose to follow or not.

So many love the concept of Christ. So many have trouble with His reality. John 6 lives!

Christ’s peace.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Maybe we should qualify how we are using adoration. I am in no way using it in the sense used for God alone and neither does any other Catholic. If any non-Catholic implies that we do then they are being disingenious. Now anyone who wants so show
adoration to a loved one,or to show respect, reverence, and a other pious act have at it. I believe it is a manifestation of ones humility.

Peace,
DCD

You seem to have changed the topic DCD without addressing my post. You indicated that the verse in Acts concerning the shadow of Peter had something to do with how people treat the Pope. I contend it does not. Nothing in the verse indicates that people treated Peter any different based upon his shadow…does it ?
As far as the argument you make, it is a rather interesting statement. You state that if any non-Catholic says that Catholic are adoring the Pope like God, they are disingenious. Is that really the only alternatives you see? That would be surprising. To clarify, I am not saying that Catholics treat the Pope or adore the Pope like they do God. I suppose one could ascertain the degree to how Catholics adore God…how exactly? Because I am not sure how to even establish what that looks like…I would not argue that they in fact do.
Instead, it seems to me, that what I would be talking about is that Catholics treat and react to the Pope in a pattern that I do not see anywhere in scripture. We do know what Peter did when people tried to bow before him…correct?

 

[Righteousone]

You left out my second Post. I did concede that I admired the fact that he met with victims. I am not Catholic, so why should I see the Pope through Catholic eyes? I do not see him as you do and neither should I be expected too.

I also do believe in religious freedom, what another choses to believe is their business. And I also stated that I was molested by a MINISTER! I made it quite clear that I acknowledge that abuse happens among every religious group. In fact in this case it is much worse. He is also a suspect in a cold case involving the death of a two year old. But he hides behind his fathers name, just like others do.

Furthermore, I have no problem with wealth. I have a problem with someone having the authority to add to a list of sins, and thought it odd that an organization that wealthy would add said sin to the list.

TBH I admired the late Pope, he seemed "“kinder and gentler”. (I taped his whole funeral and cried) Then again he was the only one I ever knew of. I was too young to remember another. I do have Catholic family members. And Pagan,. Muslim, Baptist, etc…an eclectic mixture. Like I said, no group is immune from evil acts.

Have you ever read THE HISTORY of the papacy? How it comes from St. Peter as chosen by Jesus Christ? You can deny this any which way you want to, but it is historical fact, and history you cannot change.

 

[Contarini]

Are you justifying Mr Haggard’s behavior because it was an adult??

Of course not. I’m simply saying that “pedophilia” is the wrong word for what he did.

He’s suppose to be a man of God! Hello! And this man is HEAD of millions of Evangelicals.

He isn’t even a pastor, last I heard. He was disciplined by his congregation, and this past February he refused to continue with the “restoration process” (which according to this article was not going to involve a return to the pulpit) and broke ties with the congregation. He may be trying to get a new church or something, but he certainly lost his old position.

Furthermore, as I explained earlier, he was never the head of all Evangelicals. You misunderstand the nature of the NAE. Catholics don’t like it when Protestants make up things about the Catholic Church and refuse to be corrected. Why are you doing the same thing? The NAE isn’t a church.

This digression is unfortunate, because I agree with the point you are making. We all have scandals and “it ill becomes any of us to talk about the rest of us.”

Edwin

 

[Exalt]

How can one not want to be Catholic after witnessing the pope’s visit all this week? This humble and holy man, an Apostle of Peace, who went out of his routine to speak with abuse victims,

I don’t know if mentioning the Pope’s response to the abuse scandal is the *best *way to preach about the virtues of this man.

 

[lampstand]

I thought the Holy Father’s visit was very positive and fruitful. His visit with the abuse victims seems to have been tasteful and sincere.

 

[po18guy]

I see, and did Jesus tell you personally that Billy Grahm does not lead people to Jesus? I believe he does.

Billy Graham has certainly found favor with God. However, he has not and cannot lead souls to the fulness of Christ, while remaining outside of His church. He is betting his eternity on:

Mark 9:39-41 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us. I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.”

All well and good. I would be concerned about Christ’s words here:

Matthew 12:30 “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.”

30,000+ denominations is certainly “scattering”, even if there is a unifying thread that runs through all of them. How can you be both with Christ and outside of His church at the same time? Can you have it both ways? I’d love to see that scripture.

Reverend Graham is in deep, passionate love with the concept of Christ. However, it appears that he has problems with Christ’s reality, in the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, or out of that same love, as well as humility and obedience, he would have joined the One Church. He has lead many along the stepping stones to the fulness of Christ, but has never reached that point himself.

Christ’s peace.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Billy Graham has certainly found favor with God. However, he has not and cannot lead souls to the fulness of Christ, while remaining outside of His church. He is betting his eternity on:

Mark 9:39-41 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us. I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.”

All well and good. I would be concerned about Christ’s words here:

Matthew 12:30 “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.”

30,000+ denominations is certainly “scattering”, even if there is a unifying thread that runs through all of them. How can you be both with Christ and outside of His church at the same time? Can you have it both ways? I’d love to see that scripture.

Reverend Graham is in deep, passionate love with the concept of Christ. However, it appears that he has problems with Christ’s reality, in the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, or out of that same love, as well as humility and obedience, he would have joined the One Church. He has lead many along the stepping stones to the fulness of Christ, but has never reached that point himself.

Christ’s peace.

There is a contradiction in the verses you quoted if they were meant the way you interpret them. In the first one Jesus says “if they aren’t against us they are for us.” but then in the second it says that “if they aren’t with me they are against me”. So which is it? Are we for or against Christ?

We do not speak against Christ, in Matt 12 (quoted above) Christ was speaking to the pharisees regarding those who were with Him and those who weren’t, you were correct in that. BUT He made it very clear in the verses afterwards that He was speaking of those who blasphemed against the Holy Spirit and spoke against Him:

31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

And then He makes it VERY clear who He is speaking about and to:

34You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

The man mentioned in Mark (quoted above) was doing good in CHRIST’s name, not speaking against Him or blaspheming the Holy Spirit so He is with Christ. “For he who is not against us is *FOR us”

*or ‘on our side’ in the King James Version

It could also read, ‘with us’ as in the phrase - ‘You’re either with us or against us’…

You can’t be both…

As for the topic of the thread, sorry about that OP, there has to be more than just a mere man who is adored by many for me to switch from the beliefs that God has led me to…

 

[DCD]

You seem to have changed the topic DCD without addressing my post. You indicated that the verse in Acts concerning the shadow of Peter had something to do with how people treat the Pope. I contend it does not. Nothing in the verse indicates that people treated Peter any different based upon his shadow…does it ?
As far as the argument you make, it is a rather interesting statement. You state that if any non-Catholic says that Catholic are adoring the Pope like God, they are disingenious. Is that really the only alternatives you see? That would be surprising. To clarify, I am not saying that Catholics treat the Pope or adore the Pope like they do God. I suppose one could ascertain the degree to how Catholics adore God…how exactly? Because I am not sure how to even establish what that looks like…I would not argue that they in fact do.
Instead, it seems to me, that what I would be talking about is that Catholics treat and react to the Pope in a pattern that I do not see anywhere in scripture. We do know what Peter did when people tried to bow before him…correct?

I did not intend to change the topic. Concerning the verse in Acts, a reading of the text would seem to indicate that the apostles were doing signs and wonders. As a result believers were added. Now these believers carried out the sick so when Peter came by his shadow might fall on some of them.

My point is that when the apostles and Peter come to town if it is possible you go to see them. We are all sick even if we realize it or not. The wonder and amazement you see manifested 2000 years later towards the successors to the apostles and the Vicar of Christ, is not only curiosity and freak shows but the awakening of faith in believers. In my opinion. How is this different from the text? Peter is a direct link to Christ then and now. Nothing has changed.

Your second question. “Is that really the only alternative you see?” You have given the answer. When the question is asked, “Do Catholics worship …?” And the reply is NO, often times it falls on deaf ears. And it sadly has been demonstrated time and again on Catholic answers web and radio.

If I wanted to be a poor sap I could make the comment, bible christians worship their bible. This would be ridiculous. I could say non-Catholic christians treat and react to The Church in a pattern I see nowhere in scripture. That’s why I like one on one dialogue it makes things more clear.

Sorry for the confusion,
DCD

 

[Valke2]

Have you ever read THE HISTORY of the papacy? How it comes from St. Peter as chosen by Jesus Christ? You can deny this any which way you want to, but it is historical fact, and history you cannot change.

Few things are more easily changed than history.

 

[MementoMori3283]

And then He makes it VERY clear what He is speaking about and to:

You can’t be both…

As for the topic of the thread, sorry about that OP, there has to be more than just a mere man who is adored by many for me to switch from the beliefs that God has led me to…

unless you eat my Body and drink my Blood, you will have no life in you — very unclear

no one comes to the Father except through the Son and no one comes to the Son unless beckoned by the Father

On topic, if your not called or you can’t hear it doesn’t matter if Christ Himself was on the planet-that’s been proven:shrug:

 

[BeluvdLily]

I never understood the opposition to the way the Pope dresses and how much money he may or may not have. The man has a lot of work to do - who cares if there’s pagentry? I think it’s fun.

Isn’t that the truth! I can’t believe people are so opposed to the Pope. It amazes me. He is so sweet and kind and gentle. You can see it shining forth from him. Oh well, I don’t care what anyone else thinks, I love the Holy Father and I am SO BLESSED to be Catholic!

The same with Our Lady. How can anyone look at her and see anything but good?

Amie

 

[BloodWashed]

This Pope is the successor of Peter? You mean the Apostle Peter? My Bible is downstairs right now, so i can’t get the verse, but in the book of Acts, Peter rebuked people for bowing down and kissing his feet. I don’t know about Pope Benedict, but I know for a fact that it is a commonplace Catholic practice to kiss the feet of the Pope. How could anyone who claims to be a man of God allow someone to kiss his feet and therefore usurp glory due to the Heavenly Father?

 

[Madaglan]

How can one not want to be Catholic after witnessing the pope’s visit all this week? This humble and holy man, an Apostle of Peace, who went out of his routine to speak with abuse victims, who was invited to the Jewish synagogue where they treated him very well.
A man who is invited to Ground Zero to pray, (I don’t remember any non-Catholic pastors or people being invited) where it was televised for all the world to see. A man who gathers thousands in his presence by the blink of an eye.
Benedict the XVI is the successor of St. Peter, the Vicar of Christ on earth. After seeing His holiness, why would you want to be anything else? Isn’t that what it’s all about?
Thank you Jesus for the Holy Catholic church.

Not to offend, but it’s just that–his publicity–his being very present and holy.

Again, not intended to offend, but I am more put off than attracted by the great devotion given to him by representatives of the major world religions, religions that either deny Christ or reject who He claims to be; not to mention secular society, which praises him for his social accomplishments in promoting “world peace”. Now, there’s some truth in the major religions, but there’s also much falsehood and that which is opposed to the basic tenets of Christianity. I much rather would see the Pope absolutely hated by the world, as was Christ.