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Bradski
Guest
How ugly a term that is.
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tonyrey
Guest
CCC 405 Although it is proper to each individual,295** original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants.** It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called “concupiscence”.
The bloodstained history of “humanity” is ample evidence that we are adversely affected by the behaviour of our ancestors. No man - or woman or child - is an island…
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tonyrey
Guest
It is an ugly fact that no reasonable person can evade. The bloodstained history of “humanity” is ample evidence that we are adversely affected by the behaviour of our ancestors. No man - or woman or child - is an island…
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tonyrey
Guest
Your concept of hell is defective…
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tonyrey
Guest
Genocide is not the monopoly of biblical times nor does God “kill” civilisations - unless one is a Fundamentalist.
God does not kill children - unless one is a Fundamentalist.
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tonyrey
Guest
Genocide is not the monopoly of biblical times nor does God “kill” civilisations - unless one is a Fundamentalist.
God does not kill children - unless one is a Fundamentalist.
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tonyrey
Guest
It is an atrocity to destroy an entire civilisation. It amounts to indiscriminate and unjust punishment.
Children cannot choose to be evil until they reach the age of reason.
There is no such thing as collective evil. We are not responsible for what others do unless we give our consent or cannot prevent them.
The Creator is not the Destroyer. He certainly wouldn’t destroy His own children made in His image and likeness.
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madera
Guest
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
Forget biblical times. Literally speaking, all the people that God kills are all the people that have lived, that are now living, and that ever will live. Is God to be viewed as a monster comparable to the Kymer Rouge? I don’t think so.
A transcendent God exists in a realm beyond Good and Evil.
God is not subject to rules. God is the Rule.
God judges us. We do not judge God.
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madera
Guest
Let God decide. God knows all of our natures even before we were born.
Oh, ye of little faith.
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Aloysium
Guest
I am guessing your dad wasn’t a mean drunk, or you would know how obvious it is. You don’t need scripture to see this truth.
Trying to be a loving parent is the most important thing we can do for our kids.
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Amandil
Guest
That’s the real problem with the logic of guys like Bradski, they think that their bodies and their lives are “owned” by them as if they created themselves.
And that God(“if there is a God”
) doesn’t just “take” life that was already His but “steals” it from “innocent” people.
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Tomdstone
Guest
"And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon."Exodus 12:29-30
"If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. "(Leviticus 26:21-22)
“Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!” So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.” (Ezekiel 9:5-7}
“Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.” (Isaiah 13:15-18}
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Bradski
Guest
I will release wild animals that will kill your children…Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children…Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill…Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes…They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children…
I was going to say something along the lines of: ‘well, we know it didn’t really happen, don’t we’.
But I’m guessing that it did. Or something very similar in any case. Because it still goes on now. Women, children…all casualties of someone’s idea of what is the right thing to do. So back in biblical times I’d guess that people were massacred just as they are now. Including children.
It was only a few weeks back that I was standing in a field in Cambodia. Nice countryside. Very pretty. Very green. Little farms around, people working in the rice fields, tending chickens. But not so long ago it was part of the ‘killing fields’.
They drove truck loads of people out from the city to this place and to save bullets (hey, every little counts), they used to hack people to death rather than shoot them. Thousands. Right there where I was standing. And next to me there was a tree. And according to eye witness accounts, children were dragged from the arms of their mothers and, just like it says in the bible, ‘dashed to death right before their eyes’ against it.
All because someone thought this was the right thing to do. And Pol Pot died in bed. They did it all primarily because of him.
Who did they do the killing for in the passages above? In who’s name were children dashed to death? Was it God’s? If it was, I’ll bet He wasn’t happy about it.
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tonyrey
Guest
Only Fundamentalists interpret everything in the Old Testament literally.
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tonyrey
Guest
Correction:
We are not responsible for what others do unless we give our consent or can prevent them.
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Tomdstone
Guest
So are you saying that these quotes are myths?
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tonyrey
Guest
The interpretation of disasters in the Old Testament is not infallible and it predated the teaching of Jesus that God is a Father who loves all His children - and causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous alike. He did not say God punishes the innocent and guilty with plagues and floods. On the contrary:
“Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof”, which implies that natural disasters are inevitable:
CCC 385 God is infinitely good and all his works are good. Yet no one can escape the experience of suffering or the evils in nature which seem to be linked to the limitations proper to creatures: and above all to the question of moral evil.
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Amandil
Guest
Tony, you have to be careful. The Church considers the Old Testament to be literal and historical where it is literal and historical; it also considers those parts(more specifically Gen 1-11) which are non-literal historical to be non-literal historical.
This is to say that we in the Church read the Bible literally(according to the mind of the author and what is written on the page), but that we are not literalists(that every word of the Bible is meant word-for-word on its own without taking into account the mind of the author and the time which he lived).
Tomdstone is clearly ripping the Bible out of context(as usual scratch an atheist and you find a fundamentalist), but you have to be careful in that you don’t wind up contradicting the Church.
This is to say that we in the Church read the Bible literally(according to the mind of the author and what is written on the page), but that we are not literalists(that every word of the Bible is meant word-for-word on its own without taking into account the mind of the author and the time which he lived).
Tomdstone is clearly ripping the Bible out of context(as usual scratch an atheist and you find a fundamentalist), but you have to be careful in that you don’t wind up contradicting the Church.
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Bradski
Guest
I think it’s safe to say that any given atheist treats most stories in the bible as being non-literal. When sections are quoted it is generally done to find out which of the Christians taking part in the discussion are fundamentalists. Which, in this particular discussion, seems to vary.
We’re not finding out more about God. We’re finding out more about you…
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