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Bradski
Guest
So you don’t work on a Sunday, then…
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KathleenGee
Guest
I used to be on Newsvine and spent some time with the two militant atheists who could really cream people…and there was this ongoing issue of how a loving and just God could allow so much suffering.
I went through the catechism and it spoke of the mystery of suffering…
I wonder, realizing we have our dear and testy atheists here…that when there was the event of Original Sin, it permeated the entire universe…bad things happen to good people…
I am reading how it was only a few people who decided to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the majority of the American military opposing it…‘Dr Death’ most enthusiastic to see the effects of the bombs…Nagasaki only getting hit because the day was cloudy on other more desirable targets…and it so happened there was a sun break in the sky, the bomb dropped, and those waiting for confession at St. Mary’s were immediately vaporized.
How could God allow the bomb to be dropped on Catholic Japanese who endured for 200 years???..
I went through the catechism and it spoke of the mystery of suffering…
I wonder, realizing we have our dear and testy atheists here…that when there was the event of Original Sin, it permeated the entire universe…bad things happen to good people…
I am reading how it was only a few people who decided to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the majority of the American military opposing it…‘Dr Death’ most enthusiastic to see the effects of the bombs…Nagasaki only getting hit because the day was cloudy on other more desirable targets…and it so happened there was a sun break in the sky, the bomb dropped, and those waiting for confession at St. Mary’s were immediately vaporized.
How could God allow the bomb to be dropped on Catholic Japanese who endured for 200 years???..
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Achilles6129
Guest
That’s not one of the commands
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Bradski
Guest
Exodus 31:15That’s not one of the commands
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Not much wiggle room there, is there…
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Amandil
Guest
Where do you get the idea that “the Sabbath” is the day of the week we know as Sunday?
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Tomdstone
Guest
But what about the suffering of children, who did not do anything wrong, and do not have perfect free will?
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Bradski
Guest
Sabbath was taken to be the 7th day of the week which was always a Saturday (I guess God must start work on a Sunday).Then the Council of Laodicea said: ‘Hey guys, let’s make the holy day Sunday instead!’
Now whether that means that God’s command is now applicable to a Sunday I shall leave to you and Achilles. Either way, whichever day you decide, you are commanded not to do any work. And that means No Work, Amandil. Not less work, or a little work or can’t-I-just-wash-the-dog. It means no work at all
As an example, those of the Jewish faith living in my area asked the local council to change the pedestrian crossings in the suburb from a manual push button to automatic so that they didn’t have to press it on the way to the synagogue.
A Sydney Jewish community is seeking an unorthodox SOLUTION to what has become a very orthodox problem.
Tired of risking their lives dodging oncoming traffic en route to the synagogue, Orthodox Jews in the eastern suburbs want traffic LIGHTS in the area reprogrammed so they don’t have to press a button to activate the walk signal each time they have to cross the road.
Pushing the traffic button, or using any other electrical device during the Sabbath, constitutes “work” and is therefore a breach of Jewish law. http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/09/1062902057231.html
They’re pretty keen, aren’t they. How about you, Achilles. You push any buttons on the Day of Rest?
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Amandil
Guest
The Council of Laodicea?
Do you have anything to support this in that you have proof that here and only here this decision was made?
That it began at that Council and at no earlier time did Christians worship on Sunday?
This is the sort of absurd argumentation which reflects poorly on you Bradski.
Why don’t you actually try to educate yourself in regards to the distinctions between Jewish rabbinical interpretive traditions and how they in fact departed from their Scriptural groundings as well as Jesus’ persistent criticisms towards those errors in interpretation in regards to the Sabbath rest.
In regards to the Christina faith the Catechism is quite clear in regards to the second commandment and what it entails.
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Lords7
Guest
In the beginning , well let say first If I was born in this country and I decided to move to let say Germany, Then I had children , the children are German now.
When Adam and Eve were in the Garden, God said do not eat of the fruit of the tree of good and evil or you will die Then Satan says Oh no you will not you will be like gods ( Adam and Eve were already sinless, that is like GOD).
This is the Sin, Adam and Eve had a choice to believe GOD or Satan. There action tell you who they believed. The result is a death sentence for anyone who sins. How many people do you know that die?. Our citizenship went from God that created us, to the liar god Satan, like changing countries, now all who are born are citizens of satan’s kingdom and not the kingdom of the true GOD
They did not believe GOD, this is when Satan became the god of the human race. This is why we have so much evil in the world. We Act like our god Satan. Liars, cheats, thieves, rapists, murderers, selfishness and the list goes on and on.
The God of heaven, ”the true God” had a plan to save Some of the Humans. A way to deal with the death sentence that Sin requires, this is where Gods Love works he sent his son to take on the death sentence for those that will trust, believe him and his word. We can not change back to our original citizenship by human effort. satan has us trapped in the fleshly body desiring the sinful things like greed, sex, getting and having things, power over others, And even one of satan favorites religion. Yeas we are hopelessly trapped by the deceiver.
Jesus was sent to take YOUR death sentence and take the Death penalty you deserve and satisfy the law of GOD. If you trust what Jesus did for you and stop trying to prove you own self Jesus said “I will in no way cast you out”.
Jesus Said:
Mat 7:21-23 Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Did you see that, those that tried to take credit for their own way into heaven were cast out.
God has Provided a Way for anyone that will trust him.
The will of the Father is to TRUST HIS SON. So if you do not trust his SON you will not get in.
When Adam and Eve were in the Garden, God said do not eat of the fruit of the tree of good and evil or you will die Then Satan says Oh no you will not you will be like gods ( Adam and Eve were already sinless, that is like GOD).
This is the Sin, Adam and Eve had a choice to believe GOD or Satan. There action tell you who they believed. The result is a death sentence for anyone who sins. How many people do you know that die?. Our citizenship went from God that created us, to the liar god Satan, like changing countries, now all who are born are citizens of satan’s kingdom and not the kingdom of the true GOD
They did not believe GOD, this is when Satan became the god of the human race. This is why we have so much evil in the world. We Act like our god Satan. Liars, cheats, thieves, rapists, murderers, selfishness and the list goes on and on.
The God of heaven, ”the true God” had a plan to save Some of the Humans. A way to deal with the death sentence that Sin requires, this is where Gods Love works he sent his son to take on the death sentence for those that will trust, believe him and his word. We can not change back to our original citizenship by human effort. satan has us trapped in the fleshly body desiring the sinful things like greed, sex, getting and having things, power over others, And even one of satan favorites religion. Yeas we are hopelessly trapped by the deceiver.
Jesus was sent to take YOUR death sentence and take the Death penalty you deserve and satisfy the law of GOD. If you trust what Jesus did for you and stop trying to prove you own self Jesus said “I will in no way cast you out”.
Jesus Said:
Mat 7:21-23 Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Did you see that, those that tried to take credit for their own way into heaven were cast out.
God has Provided a Way for anyone that will trust him.
The will of the Father is to TRUST HIS SON. So if you do not trust his SON you will not get in.
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Bradski
Guest
Canon 29.
Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord’s Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.
Not binding, but then I guess you have to decide which commands are if you are to obey them. I take it we can skip everything in Exodus then? I’d hate to think of you getting sentenced to death if you give your old man a smack in the mouth.
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Tomdstone
Guest
Does that include the Jews?
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Tomdstone
Guest
Does this go against what God has commanded?
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oldcelt
Guest
You can forget it Tomdstone…The majority here don’t truly want to think about that. You’ll get the standard non-answers and nothing more. Of course, if I still worshipped that god, maybe I could get those answers out without choking.
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tonyrey
Guest
You’re hardly in a position to accuse others of non-answers when you have not even attempted to explain how all misfortunes on this planet could be prevented. An earthly Utopia is an infantile fantasy:
385 God is infinitely good and all his works are good. Yet** no one can escape the experience of suffering or the evils in nature which seem to be linked to the limitations proper to creatures**: and above all to the question of moral evil.
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tonyrey
Guest
Do you really believe an infinitely loving Father would deliberately inflict an eternity of suffering on His children by creating an indestructible torture chamber?
Jesus quoted Hosea:
Hosea 6:6
That is beside the point.
You are implying life on this earth is** totally **insignificant. Doesn’t it matter **at all **if children are killed before they have had a chance to develop?
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Amandil
Guest
You make a typical protestant mistake assuming that the practice began upon the decision of a canon.
Christians had been celebrating Mass on the Lord’s Day since the beginning (Acts 20:7).
As far as “skip everything in Exodus”, well, have it your way. I doubt that you have any actual interest in discussing Biblical Theology, it’d simply be a waste of time.
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Achilles6129
Guest
I’ve told you the answer already on this thread: God will rectify all unjustfied suffering. He permits it for a time but not forever. I can even show you Biblical passages that prove this if you’d like.
God will simply undo the suffering of the innocent, as he will undo all the unjustified suffering of the Holocaust, etc.
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oldcelt
Guest
But I have Tony, you just didn’t follow. I have said over and over that suffering here on earth could be prevented by any involved omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god. But we don’t have one of those…do we? Apparently not, because the power of omnipotence alone would suffice.
No, we have a creator god and the suffering on this planet is either natural or caused by other humans or ourselves…God has nothing to do with it…those are my beliefs.
You don’t seem to understand when someone is playing Devil’s Advocate to make a point. The point…the Abrahamic /Christian God does not exist because no God with its claimed powers could allow such suffering.(The OP) Remember, the Christian God is said to be intimately involved with life on earth.
Could the Deist God, that I believe exists, take an interest in us and end all the suffering? I’m honestly not sure. It doesn’t seem to be in his nature.
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Tomdstone
Guest
So the deist God is one who is a creator, but is not all powerful? What other limitations would there be on the deist God? Philosophers, at least the Christian philosophers, go through an argument showing that if God exists, He must be all powerful. How would you address those arguments and do you have a recommended reference?
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oldcelt
Guest
Since I am quite new to the belief system, not religion, I’ll give you one of the sources I have been using. Deism has no dogma, but deists do their best to be guided by reason.
unifieddeism.com/80-critical-analysis/77-answering-why-deism-fails
About midway on the page is one deist’s view on omnipotence that I think is quite good. There are other views and if someone is looking for a religion, Deism is not what they are looking for.
BTW, though I no longer identify as a Catholic, I continue to have great respect and love for most of its people. I also believe that the church accomplishes a great deal of good on a day-to-day basis. The church continues to have its boots on the ground in some of the most desperate and dangerous places on our little planet, and is the only reason that a great many people survive.
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