How could Adam and Eve sin?

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OneSheep said:
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fhansen:
Yes, we’re here to learn to do that very thing, in fact. It’s to enthrone God to His rightful place to put it another way. It means that there ARE limits we can cross which are harmful. The only good to be gained by crossing the line in this case is to learn why not to do it.
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So, when it comes down to it, then, the “knowledge of good and evil” is truly a benefit to man when it means the formation of the conscience, and refers specifically to our own natural human capacity to resent the parts of ourselves that blind us to a more cooperative way of interacting with our fellow man.
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Man is made for communion with God, as his God. Once that relationship is compromised all else, relationships, etc, falls apart relative to where they should be. Mann loses relationship not only with God but with fellow man, with himself, and with creation around him. The good to come out of eating of the tree is actually to find out the evil of doing so, like touching a flame to experience the harm from it’s heat. Until evil was first committed by Adam it wasn’t literally, experientially, known, and by contrast good wasn’t known either as an identifiable reality separate from the world they had known previously, since that world, Eden, was all good.

Sin messes with us. 😁
 
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And in the creation story, we can see so many elements of the conscience itself. In its developed state, the conscience is truly a “knowledge of good and evil”, from which mankind constantly benefits.

The trade-off is that we are compelled, as part of our conscience, to punish wrongdoing. Guilt itself has a punishing effect on ourselves, does it not? We are also compelled, by the conscience to condemn the bad actions of others.
 
steve-b said:
You’re agnostic. By definition if you choose not to believe, you don’t accept, as in you reject, or don’t accept
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I would stay in state of searching the truth. That by definition means that I don’t know the truth so I cannot cling on something.
 
STT said:
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steve-b:
You’re agnostic. By definition if you choose not to believe, you don’t accept, as in you reject, or don’t accept
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I would stay in state of searching the truth. That by definition means that I don’t know the truth so I cannot cling on something.
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Are you baptized?
 
STT said:
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steve-b:
Are you baptized?
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No. I was told to search the truth. I was promised that I would know absolute truth.
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Did this person not also tell you that at some point recourse to faith will be necessary? If he or she did not, you were done a disservice.
 
All we know is that everything else was created as perfect, and so Adam and Eve had no justifiable reason to disobey God’s commands. That sin, one of believing that there were things God had hidden from their perception, and of desiring to know what God knew, was born of their good trait of free will, so they are only perfect if that is described as possessing those traits which God had intended for them to possess and declared as good, but because of the nature of freedom, this led them to disobey Him.
 
STT said:
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Great. So there was something missing in them. Wisdom for example? They were fooled by Satan too.
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The had infused knowledge (freedom from ignorance in matters essential for happiness).

Their sin was each their own fault because God makes it possible to remain without mortal sin through the grace given them. The sin was in not obeying rather than for Eve to be fooled. Sin has to do with will. Both Adam and Even knew what God commanded.
 
Vico said:
The had infused knowledge (freedom from ignorance in matters essential for happiness).

Their sin was each their own fault because God makes it possible to remain without mortal sin through the grace given them. The sin was in not obeying rather than for Eve to be fooled. Sin has to do with will. Both Adam and Even knew what God commanded.
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They were not wise, they didn’t know that Satan is evil, they believe that God is evil, etc.
 
STT said:
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Vico:
The had infused knowledge (freedom from ignorance in matters essential for happiness).

Their sin was each their own fault because God makes it possible to remain without mortal sin through the grace given them. The sin was in not obeying rather than for Eve to be fooled. Sin has to do with will. Both Adam and Even knew what God commanded.
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They were not wise, they didn’t know that Satan is evil, they believe that God is evil, etc.
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They had a state of sanctifying grace which brings with it seven gifts.
1831 The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord.
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STT said:
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mrsdizzyd:
Did this person not also tell you that at some point recourse to faith will be necessary? If he or she did not, you were done a disservice.
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Disservice? Why?
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The absolute truth is something that is born from reason and faith. Even in the sciences.
 
fhansen said:
Man is made for communion with God, as his God. Once that relationship is compromised all else, relationships, etc, falls apart relative to where they should be.
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Yes, and when we violate our conscience, it very much seems like we have offended God and completely messed up the relationship. We experience this when our own children, or other people, defy what we ask of them. We take offense. This is your experience too, of course?
fhansen said:
Mann loses relationship not only with God but with fellow man, with himself, and with creation around him.
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We experience a disconnect, and it very much seems as if God has disconnected Himself from us in some way. And I agree, the alienation can feel quite complete when our conscience is functioning correctly. It’s a beautiful thing, the conscience.
fhansen said:
The good to come out of eating of the tree is actually to find out the evil of doing so, like touching a flame to experience the harm from it’s heat. Until evil was first committed by Adam it wasn’t literally, experientially, known,
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Yes, when you take the story as a historic happening, this is what occurred.
fhansen said:
and by contrast good wasn’t known either as an identifiable reality separate from the world they had known previously, since that world, Eden, was all good.
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While there is some merit to that philosophical conclusion, it is a side issue, though. The theme of story (this part of it) that I see is that it has so many elements of the workings of the conscience. One thing missing is that when we do what is right, there are also some biochemical feedback mechanisms in our body that literally make us feel good, so it is important to note that in the aftermath when A&E resisted violating their conscience they would feel good, and by projection they would perceive that they are “in God’s favor”.

It would be congruent, for example, for the story to say “… and while Adam and Eve resisted eating of the fruit, God’s favor shined upon them…”
fhansen said:
Sin messes with us. 😁
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It does! And while my own relationship tells me that we never fall out of his circle of love and mercy, the alienation we experience from the action of the conscience and other distractions continue to benefit me. I fall away, I learn, I come back.
 
It’s not the conscience’s fault. God’s working in us to perfect us, according to His wisdom. Sin opposes that and He works with us in the midst of it anyway. So the conscience doesn’t stifle us; it desires the same thing God desires in fact. Sin/evil simply won’t be acceptable in the end-why would it? As we will rightly, our justice/perfection is all the greater.
 
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