How do Catholics explain 1 Timothy 2:5 and Hebrews 7:26?

[Sailka]

This is what Irenaeus did when he put the Marian freight train in motion. Slowly, one faulty doctrine after the other, you’ve built Mary up to a role alien to the Gospel writers, Paul, and the Apostolic Fathers. If Mary were the queen of heaven, a co-mediator and co-redeemer, the Ark of the Covenant, etc. you would think Paul would have referred to her as something more than “woman” – you would think the Apostolic Fathers would have mentioned her more than simply to note the virgin birth. You would think John (who was her caretaker and lived far longer than Paul or Peter) might have written a word or two about Mary if she were to occupy such a critical role in the economy of salvation. It is clear to anyone without a vested interest in defending this fallacious doctrine that Mary was none of these things.

                                                                                                                                                                                          :) 
                                                                                           Please see comments at # 490                              Tony

 

[Thing]

God doesn’t respect organizations; God respects His Word. **God doesn’t change ***- and neither does His Word - at the whim of any organization; so if any organization, including the Catholic Church, ever said or acted like something was God’s words - when they weren’t - the said organization would stand in the wrong. Case in point: Gal 2:11, when Peter had to be reproved for the error of his lifestyle.

Hi Dan1el, this organization you mention is unique in the history of creation, you know this because He Himself said ‘on this rock I will build by Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it’. It is His personal promise to the ‘organization’ He had just established. His promise either means something or it means nothing.

• My emphasis.

 

[Sailka]

Oh settle down Tony - this was very mild. I was just pointing out how foolish he was making himself look with his silly ideas. I was embarrassed for him.

James

                                                                                           Don't we look 3 times more foolish publically exposing our erring  Attitudes  ?          Aint  attude evry thung, as one in the kuntry must have once said   ?   
                                          Tony              <<<<<<<<<<<<<<    Been  Kuntry   :)                        :whistle:                         :nerd:

 

[Sailka]

There’s a reason why this (and other similar documents) aren’t part of canon. The early church recognized the authorship was dubious. Indeed most of these apocryphal works are inconsistent with the New Testament (and hence cannot be viewed as legitimate Apostolic works). There were many rumors and different writings floating around during this early period – but if you would like reliable information look to the writings of Paul and John, look the writings of Polycarp, Clement, and Ignatius. Do not look to works that have been unanimously debunked by scholars.

This is what Irenaeus did when he put the Marian freight train in motion. Slowly, one faulty doctrine after the other, you’ve built Mary up to a role alien to the Gospel writers, Paul, and the Apostolic Fathers. If Mary were the queen of heaven, a co-mediator and co-redeemer, the Ark of the Covenant, etc. you would think Paul would have referred to her as something more than “woman” – you would think the Apostolic Fathers would have mentioned her more than simply to note the virgin birth. You would think John (who was her caretaker and lived far longer than Paul or Peter) might have written a word or two about Mary if she were to occupy such a critical role in the economy of salvation. It is clear to anyone without a vested interest in defending this fallacious doctrine that Mary was none of these things.

She was blessed among women, filled with grace at the annunciation to prepare her – both body and soul for the incarnation, and her glorious name will always be praised in the words of eternal scripture. However, you do her no honor by juxtaposing her in a role reserved solely for her son. There is no co-mediator, there is one mediator, there is no co-redeemer, there is but one redeemer. Only one man died for our sins & that is how we are redeemed. Anything contrary to these truths is purely heretical.

 

[dan1el]

You must understand that the Kingdom of God is headed by the Mind and Spirit of God; therefore, although Peter had the Spirit of God, being human, he had erred, as recorded in Gal 2:11.
The King in the Kingdom of God is God; not the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is full of God’s children and sons (different connotations in greek); but they are by no means perfect. The day of perfection is the day of the revelation of Christ bodily to us. “It does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when we see Him, we shall be as He is.”
A “body” is self-correcting; self-ministering. Every organ works for the good of the entire body. What you saw in** Galatians 2:11** was simply the body working to cleanse itself. You wonder why John, the closest to the Lord, didn’t correct Peter himself; maybe it wasn’t his function in the Body, just as lungs cannot do the work of the kidneys.
And yet, no one has been able to say a single word about why Peter had erred, and yet the Catholics make it seem as if they cannot err - WAKE UP; you’re not God!
The reason you haven’t said anything is because your position of thinking you are inerrant is indefensible.

 

[dan1el]

                                                                                           Don't we look 3 times more foolish publically exposing our erring  Attitudes  ?          Aint  attude evry thung, as one in the kuntry must have once said   ?   
                                          Tony              <<<<<<<<<<<<<<    Been  Kuntry   :)                        :whistle:                         :nerd:

In love, bearing with one another… LOL in LOVE

 

[Thing]

You must understand that the Kingdom of God is headed by the Mind and Spirit of God; therefore, although Peter had the Spirit of God, being human, he had erred, as recorded in Gal 2:11.
The King in the Kingdom of God is God; not the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is full of God’s children and sons (different connotations in greek); but they are by no means perfect. The day of perfection is the day of the revelation of Christ bodily to us. “It does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when we see Him, we shall be as He is.”
A “body” is self-correcting; self-ministering. Every organ works for the good of the entire body. What you saw in** Galatians 2:11** was simply the body working to cleanse itself. You wonder why John, the closest to the Lord, didn’t correct Peter himself; maybe it wasn’t his function in the Body, just as lungs cannot do the work of the kidneys.
And yet, no one has been able to say a single word about why Peter had erred, and yet the Catholics make it seem as if they cannot err - WAKE UP; you’re not God!
The reason you haven’t said anything is because your position of thinking you are inerrant is indefensible.

Theres even a better one where Christ tells His friends how He will die. Peter tells Christ not to go there - avoid it. Christ says, to him, get behind me satan.
Christ Himself corrects St. Peter, this is the first example in action of the infalibility of the Pope. The infalibility of the teaching authority of Christs Church is Christs infalibility itself. St Peters error was not allowed by Christ to change the course of His plans and when Christ leaves His authority to act with the Apostles, as He Himself is about to die, He also leaves with them the same assurance that He will remain with them to correct them and guide them to all truth. This is God speaking in person His own promise to His own Church.

 

[adrift]

Theres even a better one where Christ tells His friends how He will die. Peter tells Christ not to go there - avoid it. Christ says, to him, get behind me satan.
Christ Himself corrects St. Peter, this is the first example in action of the infalibility of the Pope. The infalibility of the teaching authority of Christs Church is Christs infalibility itself. St Peters error was not allowed by Christ to change the course of His plans and when Christ leaves His authority to act with the Apostles, as He Himself is about to die, He also leaves with them the same assurance that He will remain with them to correct them and guide them to all truth. This is God speaking in person His own promise to His own Church.

This shows that you have no understanding of infallibility not even how to spell it.

 

[adstrinity]

Dan1el, knock it off. You keep setting up new rules and telling us how to interpret The Bible. “You must understand…,” and, “Also, I tested the Gospel of Peter, and found it to be nonsense…”. Clearly 2,000 years of tradition and seeing what was said before in regards to what has compiled the Bible can now be ascertained as accurate because Dan1el has seen that the books he has read that didn’t make it into the Bible were found lacking. We can be assured now because of Dan1el’s revelations.

Dan1el, just knock it off. Read the Bible with history in mind. Even if you have to read it first with secular history and then all 73 books with a Jewish mindset. Read up on how Catholics see the Bible, read up on how Catholics decided on the Bible, read up on how the Catholics and the Orthodox and the Oriental have decided on how they go about their hierarchy via 2,000 years ago.

Dan1elism is a different gospel.

Next: Just because Jesus alledgedly called Peter, “Satan,” doesn’t mean that the Pope is not infallible ex cathedra.

 

[dan1el]

Knock what off?
I am just a part of the body of Christ…
I am in obedience to 1 Th 5:21, so don’t bring it to a personal level.
I have not set up a single rule.
I am a person who knows almost nothing about all the texts that are out there, but a couple that are more common and that I ran into, I tested, so that I could have a response for someone who had questions about them in the future, and so that I could know, and I saw it wasn’t Scriptural.
I am part of all of you, nothing less, nothing more, and nothing without God.
I think the thing that gets to you is that I have proven once for all through Scripture that the Catholic Church is NOT infallible, as they could NOT be greater than their “father”, Peter, who was fallible, as proven in Gal. 2:11.

By saying “you must understand”, I am simply drawing attention to Scripture itself, and away from the many fluffy fables they may have been taught, and I would hope that someone would do the same for me.
I am part of you.

I am not stating anything new; I’m only telling you what your Bible has told you; also remember, though, that Jesus (the Word) has times where He has hidden Himself until the due time… which is alluded to, as well, in Daniel 12:8,9 and Rev 10:4.

 

[Thing]

This shows that you have no understanding of infallibility not even how to spell it.

What are you?

 

[Thing]

Next: Just because Jesus alledgedly called Peter, “Satan,” doesn’t mean that the Pope is not infallible ex cathedra.

It is because Jesus called St. Peter satan that we know He does not allow error to be taught. Because Christ had to die and His message had to be spread by man and because He promised to remain with the Church He had just founded we know that that Church has an indelible promise. The gates of hades itself will not prevail against it. Unless you believe the gates of hades did prevail against it…

 

[adstrinity]

What are you?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!

This is typically what the protaganist (or antagonist) says after they have been laid out by the antagonist (or protagonist) in any action sequence.

Why is this merrited here?

Incidentally, last I knew, The Thing was Jewish…

Dan1el, knock off setting up how you interpret the Bible as how it is to be interpreted. While your discerning what is not true is admirable, please put the disclaimer that this is your interpretation and not the Bible’s. …At least put down how you understood the logic.

Thank you for your clarification in your last post.

 

[Bill_Cherry]

What are you?

I am amazed and amused…
I didn’t realize it was that complicated.
I thought that God gave Noah a promise so he built the ark
then God gave Moses a promise so he built the Ark of the covenant
Then He gave us a promise so Mary became the ark of the covanent because she carried God in her womb,and so Jesus was born,and since She was His mom she sort of became His first disciple,and then Josephs kids from a previous marriage,then the rest of the gang and then Jesus passed on the responsibility to Peter who gave it to Linus and so on down to our present day
Pops B16…

And then Jesus became the Ark of the covenant and passed it into the Eucharist which is sort of like the ark of the covenant,and then those who get to receive it(which I don’t,yet)then,likewise become individual little arks…

And just like I can ask my buddy or even you guys to pray for me then ,since
people in heaven aren’t dead,then they like praying for us ,too, then I could ask Mary to pray for me also.Who is a ‘type’ of the Church…>pant,pant<
which is composed of the believers so now it’s one BIG ark…

Maybe its all just to complicated for my puny brain.
I’ll just chalk it up to a mystery.

sheesh…

 

[dan1el]

Incidentally, last I knew, The Thing was Jewish…

Actually, in Christ, there is no Jew, Greek, male, female… only one new man, Christ…
walk not in the flesh (for the carnal mind is enmity with God), but in the Spirit…

But, just so that I don’t sound like a know-it-all, which I am very good at doing, I acknowledge that charity edifieth… of which I am at times low on… which I should rather abound in than knowledge, so… thank God for that.

 

[Thing]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!

This is typically what the protaganist (or antagonist) says after they have been laid out by the antagonist (or protagonist) in any action sequence.

Why is this merrited here?

Incidentally, last I knew, The Thing was Jewish…

Dan1el, knock off setting up how you interpret the Bible as how it is to be interpreted. While your discerning what is not true is admirable, please put the disclaimer that this is your interpretation and not the Bible’s. …At least put down how you understood the logic.

Thank you for your clarification in your last post.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!

That was so funny I had to respond in kind …
antagonist (or protagonist) protaganist (or antagonist)

‘Thing’, as in me, incidently, if you are interested is the Icelandic Thing. Ver’ old.

 

[Sailka]

Knock what off?
I am just a part of the body of Christ…
I am in obedience to 1 Th 5:21, so don’t bring it to a personal level.
I have not set up a single rule.
I am a person who knows almost nothing about all the texts that are out there, but a couple that are more common and that I ran into, I tested, so that I could have a response for someone who had questions about them in the future, and so that I could know, and I saw it wasn’t Scriptural.
I am part of all of you, nothing less, nothing more, and nothing without God.
I think the thing that gets to you is that I have proven once for all through Scripture that the Catholic Church is NOT infallible, as they could NOT be greater than their “father”, Peter, who was fallible, as proven in Gal. 2:11.

By saying “you must understand”, I am simply drawing attention to Scripture itself, and away from the many fluffy fables they may have been taught, and I would hope that someone would do the same for me.
I am part of you.

I am not stating anything new; I’m only telling you what your Bible has told you; also remember, though, that Jesus (the Word) has times where He has hidden Himself until the due time… which is alluded to, as well, in Daniel 12:8,9 and Rev 10:4.

                                                                                                                                                                                          brother in Christ,  The Pope is infallible only   morally, Ex Cathedra  (Official Papal Declarations)   and  teaching morally   To  Church.     Please  give one example of where the Pope has been wrong,  in Major Moral Declaration?     Do you know that the Pope 50 years before Americas were rediscovered  :)   by  Columbus,  The then pope Issued a Moral Declaration that slavery  is dead  wrong?     Etc, Etc.         Learned that couple years ago on the awesome EWTN  world network of Mother Angelica, a great teacher of Bible And Church.  

                                                                                            Live in Jesus         Tony                                     :wink: :ehh:

 

[dan1el]

Good thoughts, but unless it is taught in Scripture, and unless those Scriptures can be verified by the mouth of two or three witnessing Scriptures, without erring against Scripture, they are just that: human thought; not God’s thought; and not of God’s Kingdom.

 

[Sailka]

Good thoughts, but unless it is taught in Scripture, and unless those Scriptures can be verified by the mouth of two or three witnessing Scriptures, without erring against Scripture, they are just that: human thought; not God’s thought; and not of God’s Kingdom.

                                                                                           Do you  not know that  Sola Scriptura is nowhere  in the Bible?  Is the invention  of Humans.       Our   Lord  created the Church,  with St Peter as the first head, to   help  lead confused us to Him in Heaven.  Have  Any  scripture   proviing Sola Scripturas?      None been found in Centures.  And Bible teaches Opposite. Know where  God said earthly Authority is? In the Apostles!.

Vivat Jesus Tony :coffeeread:

 

[dan1el]

Tony:
The Pope is not infallible even morally, because “it is not that we loved Him first, but He loved us first.”
To say that he is morally infallible is to say that he keeps the law perfectly, because the first and greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and strength and your neighbor as yourself, and yet there are times and here have been times in his progression as a saint, that he has NOT loved God wholeheartedly, but God’s grace is to be praised only.
If his were so, then Peter wouldn’t have turned away from God into the Judaizers hands Gal 2:11, away from the simplicity that is in Christ 2 Cor 11:3.
Our heart is willing, but our flesh is weak. For this reason, we are told to stay in prayer continually; somehow the Judaizers were able to lead Peter away from Christ, which Paul saved him from, as Peter had been standing in condemnation. Gal 2:11 We need eachother to obtain and secure eternal life Psalm 133:1-3, just as the body missing a heart or a kidney is in trouble Rom 12:5; 1 Cor 12:12.