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Sailka
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Infallibility means Never wrong, last time I asked :grouphug:
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cazayoux
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Ha ! … who put the timeframe on it?
Well … I would say that you need to ask what the Catholic Church means when we claim it rather than you yourself defining what the Catholic Church means.
The Church’s definition is a very narrow one.
You stating that the claim is something other than what is actually is will only be a strawman you are setting up.
for shame.
michel
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Realcatholicgk
Guest
freesmileys.org/smileys/forum/offtopic.gif
So to Drag it back on track:
[sign]
**Hebrews 7:26 “For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens”
Greek: “Toioutos gar hemin kai eprepen (3SIAI) archiereus, osios, akakos, amiantos, kechorismenos (RPPMSN) apo ton hamartolon, kai hupseloteros ton ouranon genomenos; (AMPMSN”
[/sign]
**
**Yup, That seems to be correct. So what? Do we have a problem with that? I can’t see how? **
[sign]
**1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; **
[/sign]
That also is true! We always go through Jesus to get to God. Always! Why we even ask the Angels and Saints to do that for us too!
Now I wouldn’t want to call anyone hypocrites, I am sure you all comply with the rest of Timothy don’t you? Or do you just ignore it?
Perhaps like the CC you understand that this was written to a different people at a different time in History?[sign]
**********2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. ********
********2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. **********
******2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; **********
****2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. ******
****2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. ******
**2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. ****
**2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. **
**2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. **
2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety
[/sign]
******Sure 1 Tim 2:5 was true, In fact it is still ******
true! It was correct then and will always be correct for those people.
**But ,how does it apply to us today, if at all? ****If you think it does, then don’t be hypocritical. Sure, 1Tim 2: 9: and 1Tim2:11-12 might make a lot of your female membership angry. But remember you can just tell them to shut up!
**At your next service you should have people appointed to remove the gold, or pearls, or costly array from the woman!
**
Also, remember that they must learn in silence with all subjection. Good luck with that one! 
Make sure not one woman attempts to teach, nor to usurp authority over any men, but to be silence. It is good thing your denominations permit divorce if you want to enforce these antique writings. 
****Remember what Saint Augustine said: “If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don’t like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.” **
Lucky for the real church we follow the living church of Christ. He is our head, we are the body of Christ, we don’t worship parts of a book that we like and become our own gods!
We follow the Church lead by Jesus the Christ!OK your turn to comment. Remember The OP!
freesmileys.org/smileys/bounce014.gif
**
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Realcatholicgk
Guest
Hi cazayoux, Dyslexic?
Why do you think PeteJ, another Catholic, definition was wrong as stated?
It wasn’t!
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Sailka
Guest
The Church is never wrong when it speaks Infallibly: The Magesterium (All Bishops, and the Pope). Hasn’t ever changed Basic Teaching, Dogma in 2000 Years. Pretty good Proof.
What that means is All Bishops defining a basic Teaching; And/or the Pope ‘speaking’(Writing) 'Ex Cathedra", Officially.
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Sailka
Guest
Hasn’t worked Yet on Bush/Chaney. Has worked on the World, as result of Their economic and war policies. Too bad we Victims have to suffer. We didn’t Earn it!**
Would that also work on elected officials?
freesmileys.org/smileys/violent088.gif**
We might need it!
But God doesb’t control economies or evil. We humans do.
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Sailka
Guest
So to Drag it back on track:
[sign]
**Hebrews 7:26 “For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens”
Greek: “Toioutos gar hemin kai eprepen (3SIAI) archiereus, osios, akakos, amiantos, kechorismenos (RPPMSN) apo ton hamartolon, kai hupseloteros ton ouranon genomenos; (AMPMSN”
[/sign]
**
**Yup, That seems to be correct. So what? Do we have a problem with that? I can’t see how? **
[sign]
**1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; **
[/sign]
That also is true! We always go through Jesus to get to God. Always! Why we even ask the Angels and Saints to do that for us too!
Now I wouldn’t want to call anyone hypocrites, I am sure you all comply with the rest of Timothy don’t you? Or do you just ignore it?
Perhaps like the CC you understand that this was written to a different people at a different time in History?[sign]
**********2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. ********
********2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. **********
******2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; **********
****2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. ******
****2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. ******
**2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. ****
**2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. **
**2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. **
2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety
[/sign]
******Sure 1 Tim 2:5 was true, In fact it is still ******
true! It was correct then and will always be correct for those people.
**But ,how does it apply to us today, if at all? ****If you think it does, then don’t be hypocritical. Sure, 1Tim 2: 9: and 1Tim2:11-12 might make a lot of your female membership angry. But remember you can just tell them to shut up! **
At your next service you should have people appointed to remove the gold, or pearls, or costly array from the woman!
Also, remember that they must learn in silence with all subjection. Good luck with that one! Make sure not one woman attempts to teach, nor to usurp authority over any men, but to be silence. It is good thing your denominations permit divorce if you want to enforce these antique writings.**Remember what Saint Augustine said: “If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don’t like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.” **
Lucky for the real church we follow the living church of Christ. He is our head, we are the body of Christ, we don’t worship parts of a book that we like and become our own gods!
We follow the Church lead by Jesus the Christ!OK your turn to comment. Remember The OP!
http://www./smileys/bounce014.gif
**
:frighten:
shaw: Now am worried that bro Real becoming Protestor against Women. Mary is the Intercessor, the Guide to her Son. And my Mom had a verified Marian Medical miracle Cure, Which our CC teaches can Only be done by God.Like, The Rosary is Direct living the Gospel Narration of Her Son, Our Lord.
And Father Corapi explaimned why Women can’t be Priests. Our Lord judged women Too ideal to be Priests. He left that job to us messing thimngs up Men. Luckiluy we have higher Church Authority (Bishops) to keep them straight.
Can I borrow a Greek Dictionary, bro Real, to check the accuracy of your quote? ( Just j/k)
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Realcatholicgk
Guest
Now am worried that bro Real becoming Protestor against Women.
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I have been maried 40 years to the same woman! How? When we first got married I told her to SHUT UP!:blackeye:
She hasn’t spoken to me since!
Mary is the Intercessor, the Guide to her Son. And my Mom had a verified Marian Medical miracle Cure, Which our CC teaches can Only be done by God.
**Praise God for that!**
Like, The Rosary is Direct living the Gospel Narration of Her Son, Our Lord
** I personally was very glad for the Luminous mysterys. They really “complete” the rosary for me! **
And Father Corapi explained why Women can’t be Priests. Our Lord judged women Too ideal to be Priests. He left that job to us messing things up Men. Luckly we have higher Church Authority (Bishops) to keep them straight.
**Could you imaging the homlies if they were given by a women? Hours and hours of “I told you so!”"And pointing out what we are not doing, or are doing that we should do! Kind of like JA4!
Can I borrow a Greek Dictionary, bro Real, to check the accuracy of your quote? ( Just j/k) **
Here you go …:bible1: Be careful, It is the only one I have. So take care of it! Please don’t let a Protestant know you have it. You know how they love to “Borrow” stuff, and they never bring anything back!
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/jump4.gif**
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cazayoux
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My issue was with Sailka stating this…Hi cazayoux, Dyslexic?
Why do you think PeteJ, another Catholic, definition was wrong as stated?
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* Infallibility means Never wrong, last time I askedIt’s only when he speaks on faith and morals, to the whole church, from the chair of Peter.
This is a purposefully narrow and guided definition.
Those arguing against our church’s claim to papal infallibility tend to thing the definition is much, much broader and use this to ‘show us how we are wrong’.
michel
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Peter_J
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Good point. There seems to be almost an epidemic of CAF posters saying that the Pope is always infallible without mentioning the conditions, or mentioning some of the conditions but omitting others (e.g. “The Pope is never wrong when he speaks on a matter of faith or morals.”)
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jfallaw
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Maybe I should have constructed my sentence better. I was not implying that all the Pope’s teachings are infallible, just that the ones that are infallible are guaranteed to be infallible.
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Realcatholicgk
Guest
cazayoux and PeterJ I have noticed that also! By the way, Sailka **(Tony) hasn’t been around lately. The Mods may have gotten him. He insults protestants some time.
**I am glad I don’t! I may insult their stupid beliefs but I try not to attack them personally! We all can’t be right!
[sign]We Have Papal Infallibility[/sign]
[sign]
PAPAL INFALLIBILITY
**Infallibility belongs in a special way to the pope as head of the bishops (Matt. 16:17–19; John 21:15–17). It is a charism the pope enjoys in virtue of his office, when, as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, he confirms his brethren in their faith (Luke 22:32), he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine of faith or morals. Therefore his definitions, of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church, are justly held irreformable, for they are pronounced with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, an assistance promised to him in blessed Peter." **
Papal infallibility is not a doctrine that suddenly appeared in Church teaching; rather, it is a doctrine which was implicit in the early Church. It is only our understanding of infallibility which has developed and been more clearly understood over time. In fact, the doctrine of infallibility is implicit in these Petrine texts: John 21:15–17 ("Feed my sheep . . . "), Luke 22:32 (“I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail”), and Matthew 16:18 ("You are Peter . . . "). [/sign]
**I am guessing that is how us Catholics explain 1 Timothy 2:5 and Hebrews 7:26? ( Rememebring the OP!!)
**
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Peter_J
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I am guessing that is how us Catholics explain 1 Timothy 2:5 and Hebrews 7:26? ( Rememebring the OP!!)
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Realcatholicgk
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Sailka
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**
**[/SIGN][SIGN]
and PeterJ I have noticed that also! By the way, Sailka (Tony) hasn’t been around lately. The Mods may have gotten him. He insults protestants some time.
**I am glad I don’t! I may insult their stupid beliefs but I try not to attack them personally!/[/SIGN]**B] We all can’t be right!
We Have Papal Infallibility
PAPAL INFALLIBILITY
**Infallibility belongs in a special way to the pope as head of the bishops (Matt. 16:17–19; John 21:15–17). It is a charism the pope enjoys in virtue of his office, when, as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, he confirms his brethren in their faith (Luke 22:32), he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine of faith or morals. Therefore his definitions, of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church, are justly held irreformable, for they are pronounced with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, an assistance promised to him in blessed Peter." **
Papal infallibility is not a doctrine that suddenly appeared in Church teaching; rather, it is a doctrine which was implicit in the early Church. It is only our understanding of infallibility which has developed and been more clearly understood over time. In fact, the doctrine of infallibility is implicit in these Petrine texts: John 21:15–17 ("Feed my sheep . . . "), Luke 22:32 (“I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail”), and Matthew 16:18 ("You are Peter . . . "). [/sign]
I am guessing that is how us Catholics explain 1 Timothy 2:5 and Hebrews 7:26? ( Rememebring the OP!!)
[SIGN]
Sailka: Bro Real, you have to be Real Careful not to ‘hit’ on anybody, or talk falsehoods behind my back. I Never, or Ever insult Any One. Ever.
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KC Brothers can Never solve all the world’s problems, as your Midland neighbor baby bush said he’de do. Remember him saying he’de start a new Crusade against Muslims? And try to remove all evils? Even God has not promised That! USA Bankrupt, bringing World close to Same, by massive deregulations, of our financials, and Tax slahes on Richest, and false wars, and Lot more! That’s having Fun teaching the reality if the Only Other who said he’de Solve all Problems. He Was totally inexperienced to make His ‘promises’. Didn’t he fall off a mountanbike too?
That’s having fun with what he did, Buried the USA totally as Khrushchev said he’de do Economically.
We have sensitive situated people here. I was able to message Symux several times, after you leveled Too harshelly on her protestant teachings she was here to unlearn, wanting to rediscover the Catholic Church she rememebered so little of. Its great to have Fun with visitors, But really hitting hard and personally Never is. Ever.
In post 870 I only gave the Definition for the word Infallibillity, to correct PJ’s use of the Pope ex cathedra being wrong about Y. Infallible only Ex Cathdra.
I do stay very busy lot of threads too. And like to help everyone. Good to see Peter J now our friend. That’s the way to be with Every one.
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Realcatholicgk
Guest
Bro Real, you have to be Real Careful not to ‘hit’ on anybody, or talk falsehoods behind my back. I Never, or Ever insult Any One. Ever.
**
Tony, That was a “Joke” that was funnier in my mind that came out in writing. That is a problem when you are being fallacious. Please accept my apology for any harm to your repretation that you might have felt. Not my intention at all. Might I remind you of 3rd degree? Enough said! **
KC Brothers can Never solve all the world’s problems, as your Midland neighbor baby bush said he’de do. Remember him saying he’de start a new Crusade against Muslims? And try to remove all evils? Even God has not promised That! USA Bankrupt, brining World close to Same, by massive deregulations, of our Financials, And Tax slahes on Richest, and false wars, and Lot more! That’s having Fun teaching the reality if the Only Other who said he’de Solve all Problems. He Was totally inexperienced to make His ‘promises’. Didn’t he fall off a mountanbike too?
That’s having fun with what he did, Buried the USA totally as Khrushchev said he’de do Economically.
**Wrong thread for political speches isn’t it or does this have something to do with the OP that I missed? **
We have sensitive situated people here. I was able to message Symux several times, after you leveled Too harshlly on her protestant teachings she was here to unlearn, wanting to rediscover the Catholic Church she rememebered so little of. ** Its great to have Fun with visitors,** But really hitting hard and personally Never is. Ever.
Aren’t personal opinions nice. I have mine also. One thing brother, I am serious as a heartattack! IMO you can never be too harsh about false teaching ! I never say anything in hate of the person. But I am forced by God to speak out and defend our faith. Real knights are required to do that in the name of Jesus! I have always spoken the truth. If that offense people maybe they better wake up? If by accident, I wound an innocent I am glad that you are here like Florance Nightengale to patch them up! That is a good thing! In any war there are casualties. I was one in another real war! This battle is more important it can save souls Eternal lives buddy!
I sincerely love all our visitors and respect them as persons. I realize they have the right to have a wrong opinion, follow false teachings and remain condemned to hell if that is their desire.It is my desire to attempt to save their souls. If that is “unkind” then put me down on the unkind list! I must attempt to save them, it is my christian duty! I take my responsbility to my fellow man very seriousely. I realize that they are “Separated Brothers and Sisters” as our church teaches. They are “separated” by lies, corruption teaching of our beliefs, false dogma and counterfeit Bibles. Many protestants are very nice, kind and caring people, they seem to be sincere and honest people. I couldn’t say anything wrong about them as people. Actually even Mormons and other “cultist” like SDA, and JH can be nice. There are many good people who love what they think is Jesus. However they practice false religious practices and are currently destined for hell. It is a fact that Jesus himself warned about many times in the Bible. So many Sola Scriptura heretics don’t even follow the bible that they swear by! Otherwise our job would be so much easier it is all written in the scriptures. Except the part about the scriptures being the only source of salvation. Jesus said it was eating his actual body which is only offered by the catholic religion. You, I and the others attempt to defend and explain our faith. Keep up the good work, my brother!
In post 870 I only gave the Defiinition for the word Infallibillity, to correct PJ’s use of the Pope ex cathedra being wrong about Y. Infallible only Ex Cathdra. I do stay very busy lot of threads too. And like to help everyone. Good to see Peter J now our friend. That’s the way to be with Every one.
**PeterJ has always been “our friend” but like you and I he has his personal opinion and isn’t afraid to voice it. rememebr friend, we are all working for good. We are different parts of the same Body of Christ, attempting to remove the cancerous growth that started to develop 500 years ago. I do surgery, you patch them up and PeterJ explains what is happening and why?
God Bless, breaks over, back to work**
Reference the OP
1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus"
Jesus mediated, with His Father, by His death on the cross to obtain for us eternal life. The angels and Saints to include His Blessed Mother intercede on our behalf to Jesus.
** Hebrews 7:26 25 Therefore, he is always able to save those who approach God through him, since he lives forever to make intercession for them. 26 It was fitting that we should have such a high priest: holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, higher than the heavens.** 27 He has no need, as did the high priests, to offer sacrifice day after day, first for his own sins and then for those of the people; he did that once for all when he offered himself.
**AMEN?
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Sailka
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Am 4th degree, bro Real. But I stow my Sword. I, like you pull my humor for public display. :frighten: :bighanky: :aok: Including Midland ranchers who run up Debts US History can’t pay. Red China only one Big enough for our IOU’s, with massive interest payments.
Midland cowboy hats ain’t as real as Pecos ones. Texas is BIG state. And Knights fight for Public Good.
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Realcatholicgk
Guest
**Tony,
4th since 1977! :knight1:
Did you notice? They accepted me as a greeter.
I will be “nice” Let me explain some thingsTony, “Congress” makes the laws, allocates and spends money. The President signs the laws and if he is lucky when the congress attempts to redistribute our wealth he can veto it. With their laws their isn’t much wealth here, so I am hoping to get some redistributed to me!
Of course, the war is not a good thing, they never are. :knight2: But they do, like elections move money into the economy. The congress does not have Jesus acting as their mediator.(OP Rules) Why bail any business out? I could use their help with my business. It is a non-profit, never started out that way but with taxes and economy it sure is now! I wish I had a mortage, I would have the government pay it for me! People are attempting to remove christ from our country. Thank God we have a new president who has strong christian values. His preacher , that taught him for the past 20 years, has many good christian ideas doesn’t he?Anyway,
God Bless, You are loved my brother! **
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SIA
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This has nothing to do with Sola Scriptura. It has everything to do with what the Scriptures do say regarding Salvation and Christ. I have never claimed the Bible alone as all authority in Christianity. I do however claim the Bible as the highest authority amongst the others. To claim that Mary plays any role whatsoever in our Salvation is to be contrary to the Scriptures. This isn’t Sola Scriptura, it is simply saying that if you equate any authority whatsoever to the Sciptures, you cannot elevate Mary to this level with Christ. I would be very careful what my leaders were teaching. Peter and Paul didn’t teach that Mary is co-redemptrix or co-mediatrix.
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