How do Catholics explain 1 Timothy 2:5 and Hebrews 7:26?

[CWBetts]

This has nothing to do with Sola Scriptura. It has everything to do with what the Scriptures do say regarding Salvation and Christ. I have never claimed the Bible alone as all authority in Christianity. I do however claim the Bible as the highest authority amongst the others. To claim that Mary plays any role whatsoever in our Salvation is to be contrary to the Scriptures. This isn’t Sola Scriptura, it is simply saying that if you equate any authority whatsoever to the Sciptures, you cannot elevate Mary to this level with Christ. I would be very careful what my leaders were teaching. Peter and Paul didn’t teach that Mary is co-redemptrix or co-mediatrix.

Ummm…we don’t elevate Mary to the level of Christ.

 

[SIA]

Ummm…we don’t elevate Mary to the level of Christ.

You absolutely do.

Immaculate Conception - Christ’s birth without sin.

Assumption - Christ’s Ressurection.

Perpetual sinlessness - Christ’s sinlessness

Co-Redemptrix - Chrsit’s redeeming power

Co-Mediatrix - Christ’s intercession to the father

You parallel her with Chrsit on these and more.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

You absolutely do.

Immaculate Conception - Christ’s birth without sin.

Assumption - Christ’s Ressurection.

Perpetual sinlessness - Christ’s sinlessness

Co-Redemptrix - Chrsit’s redeeming power

Co-Mediatrix - Christ’s intercession to the father

You parallel her with Chrsit on these and more.

**Hi SIA How are you? The family?

Like Mother like Son. I bet he even had her eyes. Mary was only a creation of God’s like we are. She was completely Human and had no supernatural nature. Now that she has died she has the same abilities as we will have when we die, that every Saint has! The ability to help us and pray for us to Jesus. Isn’t that great? In the other case Jesus was God and Man. But you knew that also.

Only thing you really got wrong was: “Assumption - Christ’s Ressurection.” Did you mean His ascention? Is so;

Jesus ascended into heaven = Own power, body and soul
Mary assumed into heaven = Her Son took her, body and soul

How are they parallel?

Nice to see you. Thanks so much for trying to help explain our religion to us. That is so kind. Could do us one favor? Read about it so you know what you are talking about. And remember, if it doesn’t interefere with our redemption it isn’t really important. So leave the nits alone don’t pict them, they spread!

God Bless**

 

[cazayoux]

You absolutely do.

Immaculate Conception - Christ’s birth without sin.

Assumption - Christ’s Ressurection.

Perpetual sinlessness - Christ’s sinlessness

Co-Redemptrix - Chrsit’s redeeming power

Co-Mediatrix - Christ’s intercession to the father

You parallel her with Chrsit on these and more.

Another example of a non-Catholic misunderstanding what the Catholic Church teaches, and telling us we are wrong about what we don’t really believe.

All that Mary has is FROM Jesus.
We do not believe she has ANY power.

Immaculate conception.
We believe Jesus saved her from sin.
Consider a guy walking in the woods and falling into a pit. Jesus helps him out of the pit and saves him.
Consider that guy walking, and just before falling into the pit, Jesus stops him. Jesus has still saved this guy from the pit.
We believe Jesus saved her from sin.
**
Assumption**
Compare this to Jesus’ ASCENSION.
Jesus of His own power lifts himself to heaven.
Even the term ‘assumption’ shows that this is not of Mary.
She is ‘assumed’ (pulled, brought to) heaven by the power of JESUS.
We do not believe Mary lifted herself to heaven.

Perpetual sinlessness
We believe Jesus saved her *from *sin.
See first section above.

Co-redemtrix / Co-mediatrix
These only mean that she leads people TO JESUS.
This does not mean we think she is responsible in any way for our salvation.
Just as you can be a co-redeamer by bringing the word of God to others and, through the Holy Spirit’s power, bringing that person to salvation.
Just as you can be a co-mediator by praying for others in your faith community. When someone in your faith community is sick, they are likely to ask the community to pray for them, rather than just praying to Jesus themselves. In this way we are mediators for that sick person. I kow you believe there is power in praying in numbers.

In NONE of these areas do we put Mary on the level of Christ.
You have been misinformed.
Please, feel free to disagree with with I ACTUALLY believe rather than what you have been wrongly TOLD what I believe.

michel

 

[Realcatholicgk]

This has nothing to do with Sola Scriptura. It has everything to do with what the Scriptures do say regarding Salvation and Christ. I have never claimed the Bible alone as all authority in Christianity. I do however claim the Bible as the highest authority amongst the others. **To claim that Mary plays any role whatsoever in our Salvation is to be contrary to the Scriptures. This isn’t Sola Scriptura, it is simply saying that if you equate any authority whatsoever to the Sciptures, you cannot elevate Mary to this level with Christ. ** I would be very careful what my leaders were teaching. Peter and Paul didn’t teach that Mary is co-redemptrix or co-mediatrix.

**
Hi SIA,

Good post it brings out the problem with the uneducated. Thanks for your post! The Church and God has authority ! the Book has no authority ,it is a B-O-O-K. If it was written in words you couldn’t understand someone would have to translate it for you. Correct?

Well, it is written in words that only the Church has authority to interpret. The chuch has the authority to say what is contained in the meaning of the scriptures. It also had Oral and other written documents and 2,000 years of unerring teaching plus the HS to guide it.

We actually don’t need your claims , nor opinions. Hey, maybe your chuch could use you? They have all kind of misinformation and corrupted teaching from our bible. There may be an opening for a" know it all wrong! "

Why not ask them?

God Bless**

 

[SIA]

Another example of a non-Catholic misunderstanding what the Catholic Church teaches, and telling us we are wrong about what we don’t really believe.

All that Mary has is FROM Jesus.
We do not believe she has ANY power.

Immaculate conception.
We believe Jesus saved her from sin.
Consider a guy walking in the woods and falling into a pit. Jesus helps him out of the pit and saves him.
Consider that guy walking, and just before falling into the pit, Jesus stops him. Jesus has still saved this guy from the pit.
We believe Jesus saved her from sin.
**
Assumption**
Compare this to Jesus’ ASCENSION.
Jesus of His own power lifts himself to heaven.
Even the term ‘assumption’ shows that this is not of Mary.
She is ‘assumed’ (pulled, brought to) heaven by the power of JESUS.
We do not believe Mary lifted herself to heaven.

Perpetual sinlessness
We believe Jesus saved her *from *sin.
See first section above.

Co-redemtrix / Co-mediatrix
These only mean that she leads people TO JESUS.
This does not mean we think she is responsible in any way for our salvation.
Just as you can be a co-redeamer by bringing the word of God to others and, through the Holy Spirit’s power, bringing that person to salvation.
Just as you can be a co-mediator by praying for others in your faith community. When someone in your faith community is sick, they are likely to ask the community to pray for them, rather than just praying to Jesus themselves. In this way we are mediators for that sick person. I kow you believe there is power in praying in numbers.

In NONE of these areas do we put Mary on the level of Christ.
You have been misinformed.
Please, feel free to disagree with with I ACTUALLY believe rather than what you have been wrongly TOLD what I believe.

michel

The Catholic church has elevated Mary to the level of Christ through the Marian dogmas. Not one of these dogmas is contained in Scripture. Not one! That is a profound fact. Every Marian dogma mirrors something divine about Jesus. That is what I merely showed you. However, I do not expect you to listen or agree. These are the facts and I do expect you to rebel and thwart them. I did so when I was Catholic, but I realized and ultimately understood that Jesus is our life and hope, not Mary. Mary is to be honored as a saint and as her role in the “Yes” to God. But the Catholic church has made a godess out of her and it’s wrong. That’s not ignorance of the Catholic faith, that is the truth.

 

[Sailka]

You absolutely do.

Immaculate Conception - Christ’s birth without sin.

Assumption - Christ’s Ressurection.

Perpetual sinlessness - Christ’s sinlessness

Co-Redemptrix - Chrsit’s redeeming power

Co-Mediatrix - Christ’s intercession to the father

You parallel her with Chrsit on these and more.

We don’t elevate Mary. Her Son did. She was respected as THe Woman of History until couple hundred years ago by some. All Reformation Leaders also: Martin Luther, Calvin, etc.

 

[Sailka]

**Tony,
4th since 1977! :knight1:
Did you notice? They accepted me as a greeter. I will be “nice”

Let me explain some thingsTony, “Congress” makes the laws, allocates and spends money. The President signs the laws and if he is lucky when the congress attempts to redistribute our wealth he can veto it. With their laws their isn’t much wealth here, so I am hoping to get some redistributed to me! Of course, the war is not a good thing, they never are. :knight2: But they do, like elections move money into the economy. The congress does not have Jesus acting as their mediator.(OP Rules) Why bail any business out? I could use their help with my business. It is a non-profit, never started out that way but with taxes and economy it sure is now! I wish I had a mortage, I would have the government pay it for me! People are attempting to remove christ from our country. Thank God we have a new president who has strong christian values. His preacher , that taught him for the past 20 years, has many good christian ideas doesn’t he?

Anyway,

God Bless, You are loved my brother! **

The President Proposes, Congress disposes. Non -Vet Bush asminstration Initiated All the Major probs. All.

And the Catholic Church is the only church in USA where Secularization is not working much. We Grew in Membership .57% in 2007, all other denominations but 2 declining in membershp: National Churches detailed February reports on Each denomination. And we 3 Million Marian Lergion of Mary door to door almost all countries bring Many more to The Catholic Church, The Congo, Thailand, South Aftrica as well as Americas.

And These ‘wars’ Only Remove vast amounts Out of USA Economy, focusing on military/industrial complex, foreign spending. And ‘defense spending’ is smallest turnover in Our economy, with Guaranteed Massive Profits, little avccountability. Pres/General Eisenhower warned Strongly Against.

Pope John Paul II the Great said in his last week on Earth that War is “Never Justified”. He certainly Knew.

 

[RobGentner]

• The President Proposes, Congress disposes. Non -Vet Bush asminstration Initiated All the Major probs. All.
• And the Catholic Church is the only church in USA where Secularization is not working much. We Grew in Membership .57% in 2007, all other denominations but 2 declining in membershp: National Churches detailed February reports on Each denomination. And we 3 Million Marian Lergion of Mary door to door almost all countries bring Many more to The Catholic Church, The Congo, Thailand, South Aftrica as well as Americas.
• And These ‘wars’ Only Remove vast amounts Out of USA Economy, focusing on military/industrial complex, foreign spending. And ‘defense spending’ is smallest turnover in Our economy, with Guaranteed Massive Profits, little avccountability. Pres/General Eisenhower warned Strongly Against.
• Pope John Paul II the Great said in his last week on Earth that War is “Never Justified”. He certainly Knew.

Tony, My Tony: freesmileys.org/smileys/angry019.gif
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[Peter_J]

The Catholic church has elevated Mary to the level of Christ through the Marian dogmas. Not one of these dogmas is contained in Scripture. Not one!

As I’ve said before, I believe that the Marian dogmas are all contained, at least implicitly, in Scripture.

But let’s suppose you’re right, and they are not contained in Scripture. Indeed, let’s go further and suppose that they are false. Even then, how do they “elevate Mary to the level of Christ”?

If I say that St. Paul was perpetually virgin, am I raising him to the level of Christ?

If I say that Elijah was assumed in heaven, body and soul, am I raising him to the level of Christ?

If I say that Adam and Eve were initially without Original Sin, am I saying that were initially at the level of Christ?

 

[Peter_J]

However, I do not expect you to listen or agree.

A little bit tangental, but it might not be a bad thing that you have low expectations. In my experience, most people on the internet are more interested in talking than listening.

 

[CWBetts]

The Catholic church has elevated Mary to the level of Christ through the Marian dogmas. Not one of these dogmas is contained in Scripture. Not one! That is a profound fact.

But these teachings are in the writings of the Church Fathers

 

[SIA]

But these teachings are in the writings of the Church Fathers

I’m interested to see that. The Immaculate Conception was just admitted by a Catholic priest a year or so ago that it was from the Magisterium and not from Scripture. I understand perfectly well that in the Catholic realm, that is fine because they both carry the same authority. To me, it doesn’t wash. I’m curious to see where the Immaculate Conception can be found in the Early Church prior to the 5th century.

 

[SIA]

As I’ve said before, I believe that the Marian dogmas are all contained, at least implicitly, in Scripture.

But let’s suppose you’re right, and they are not contained in Scripture. Indeed, let’s go further and suppose that they are false. Even then, how do they “elevate Mary to the level of Christ”?

If I say that St. Paul was perpetually virgin, am I raising him to the level of Christ?

If I say that Elijah was assumed in heaven, body and soul, am I raising him to the level of Christ?

If I say that Adam and Eve were initially without Original Sin, am I saying that were initially at the level of Christ?

I believe that what is more important than anything here is truth. Again, I challenge you to show me in Scripture where the Marian dogmas can be shown.

 

[CWBetts]

Aftor some cursory research, I must admit I was mistaken…the Immaculate Conception is implied in the Scriptures, In Gabriel’s greeting “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee”

 

[SIA]

Aftor some cursory research, I must admit I was mistaken…the Immaculate Conception is implied in the Scriptures, In Gabriel’s greeting “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee”

The thing I like about you the most since I have read your posts is that you make no qualms about showing your honesty. Thank you.

 

[CWBetts]

The thing I like about you the most since I have read your posts is that you make no qualms about showing your honesty. Thank you.

Thank you. It brings no honor to God if I refuse to admit mistakes. However, that being said, i will continue to look into the writings of the Church Fathers to find something more implicit.

 

[Peter_J]

I believe that what is more important than anything here is truth.

Alright.

Are the Marian dogmas all true? I think we could debate that question for a long time.

Is it true to say (as you have) that the Marian dogmas “elevate Mary to the level of Christ”? No, that’s obviously false (and a bit silly, in my opinion).

 

[cazayoux]

…But the Catholic church has made a godess out of her and it’s wrong.

I agree that making a goddess out of Mary is wrong.
If the Catholic Church actually did that, I would leave it.

The fact you can’t get into your head is that the Catholic Church does not deify her.
There is honor and respect, but that is it.
Your desire to demonize the Catholic Church by telling me it teaches something it doesn’t is just dishonesty or willful blindness on your part.

You overshoot in what you think the Marian dogmas mean.
Your inflation of them is wrong.
This is the root of your issue here.

You have dozens of vocal, educated Catholics all telling you that we don’t worship Mary as a goddess.
You are closing your eyes, sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming ‘yes you do’.

Be honest with yourself.
*Could *you be misunderstanding what Marian dogmas actually mean?
Unless you are infallible, you’ll have to admit that you could be wrong in your understanding.
Are you SO arrogant to tell all of us that we believe something completely different from what we actually believe.

c’mon now.

michel

 

[Sailka]

Tony, My Tony: freesmileys.org/smileys/angry019.gif
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Just answering your off topic, brother Rob. And Texas WMD’s are banned today on this thread. :hey_bud: npatrol:
Now back to OP: Know Catholic Church Teaches, practices Hebrews 7:26 of OT? As Bible says, is Only One Priest in the Universe: Our Lord; Saviour. The RC priest Always acts In His Stead, in the Mass too.