How do Catholics explain 1 Timothy 2:5 and Hebrews 7:26?

  • Thread starter Thread starter SIA
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
The teachings of the early church fathers, as well as the infallible pronouncements of the Popes, the megesterium and ecumenical councils. You truly were poorly catechized if you were Catholic for 30 years and a neophyte of 8 months had to explain it to you
CW, The Teaching Of the Faith was very weak, notoriously so after Vatican II. Was much confusion about most things Catholic, like Clergy Clothing, if Needed, about the Novus Ordo Mass (Some of which from first 2 Centuries), Teaching Religion, etc. SIA may have been one of many victims of the confusion. Thanks for your interest and help, CW. EWTN is wonderful brilliant way of learning much more about the Faith.
:blessyou: each, SIA and CW.
 
What is your point?
My points, SIA, are that not everything is clearly written in the Bible. Tradition is key part of the Anglican Church also.Or Was. We sing the Awesome Charles Wesley, Luther, Bach hymns too. The Catholic Church wants to Preserve the great Religious and ethnic Cultures. John Paul II the Great is Who called world attention to that maybe a decade ago. No one else cared! Secularization wants to get rid of all tradition, ethnicity, Faith, picturing Religion as obsolete.
 
40.png
SIA:
Look, I’m an ex Cradle Catholic of over three decades. I was a devoutly practicing Catholic for most of my adult life until I left the church a few years ago. I know what the teachings of Mary are in the Catholic church. You can say that my perspective is wrong or that my viewpoints are wrong on them, but I do know them and I know them well. You can’t accuse everyone that disagrees with you of ignorance as a defense forever. Sooner or later you are going to have to explain what it is you believe and why.
**Hi SIA,
I agree with you 100%! Some times people immediately use ignorance, not taking into consideration natural stupidity or demonic possession or a host of other valid reasons. Which one is your reason? Some people! The funny thing is by call people ignorant they are really insulting them! And most of them would say they are being kind? Well I apologize on their behalf. :yyeess:
So, if you don’t mind. What was it that made you leave the church and instill this desire to hate women? A divorce?
We will pray for your healing. Remember, others that disobeyed the church were able to come back. :aok: Have you talked to a priest about you sinfulness?
Does coming here, attacking Jesus and His Mother, really make you feel more justified about leaving him? Abandoning Him and His church for a false religion? I hope you aren’t also frequenting prostitutes for more meaningless gratification. You know that isn’t right.:tsktsk:

SIA, Pray is the answer. Open you heart to God and He can, He will, heal your soul! It won’t happen by your coming here attacking his church and his mother. It will come through the Graces the HS gives to the CC to heal people and forgive their sins. Can’t you remember the taste of the Body and soul of our saviour as you devoured his flesh in keeping with his commandments?

Stop! Feel that emptyness deep in your chest? That is the place Jesus use to reside. He is standing at the door, let Him in! You need Him as much as He desires you!:gopray2:

I agree with you that the Church’s teachings are not grounded in the Scriptures! How ridiculous! :whacky: It is so obvious and only you spotted it.👍
The CC was here first and wrote the scriptures, so you are correct. The CC is not firmly grounded in the scriptures. However, the “real” uncorrupted and distorted scriptures are “grounded” in the Catholic Church! Amen! 🙂

But SIA, I think that was the point they mean to make, that the church and scriptures are one! The scriptures that the Catholic Church uses echo the beliefs of Jesus and God. It is the old egg, chicken question.

You are loved:love:

God Bless**
 
Indeed, are at least 2 pre-5th Century Saints who wrote of the Sinless Blessed Virgin, and are Bible verses clearly indicating same. I’ve spent couple hours off and on, got heavily documented Biblical and pre-400, post 600 Writings by Saints. Pre year 400 ok?

Link to the Immaculate Conception Major Documentation: URL: index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=924&Itemid=83
[SIGN]Mother of all Peoples Magazine: Friday, 08 December 2006 The Immaculate Conception: Basic Foundations of the Dogma Mark Miravalle [/SIGN]
Major Marian Documentation is the e-magazine Mother of all Peoples ; Marian Apologetics December 8 2006

St Ambrose (d 397) and St Severus (d 587) statements are quoted.
:highprayer:
 
Major Marian Documentation is the e-magazine Mother of all Peoples ; Marian Apologetics December 8 2006

St Ambrose (d 397) and St Severus (d 587) statements are quoted.
:highprayer:
**Hey Tony,

You realize you are answering your own post don’t you? :eek: I think that there is a medical term that I am sure I couldn’t pronounce that may need attention and or medication!😃

I have notice that Bruno and you aren’t on at the same time, but I won’t start any rumors! Oh that is a cute accent you use when you play Bruno! Oh, I forgot:eek: Don’t anyone read what I wrote. Forget I typed that! 🙂

God bless my brother**
 
**Hey Tony,

You realize you are answering your own post don’t you? :eek: I think that there is a medical term that I am sure I couldn’t pronounce that may need attention and or medication!😃

I have notice that Bruno and you aren’t on at the same time, but I won’t start any rumors! Oh that is a cute accent you use when you play Bruno! Oh, I forgot:eek: Don’t anyone read what I wrote. Forget I typed that! 🙂

God bless my brother**
(Loaning Rob my Glasses). I was adding easy access documentation to SIA’s Questions in #917, 921. Copy?
How many have You Greeted properly, Bro Rob today? Still a Greeter?
 
(Loaning Rob my Glasses). I was adding easy access documentation to SIA’s Questions in #917, 921. Copy?
How many have You Greeted properly, Bro Rob today? Still a Greeter?
**
I knew that Tony. None, I took my self off “notification” if they want me they will let me know. I am busy right now, selling beer to help pregnant women! 😃 **
 
You just refuse to admit that all of the Marian dogmas mirror the divnity of Christ.
Do we at least agree now that those dogmas don’t elevate Mary to the level of Christ?
The Immaculate Conception mirrors Christ being born without sin.

The Assumption mirrors Christ’s Ressurection.

Mary being kept from sin mirrors Christ’s sinlessness
Adam and Eve were created immaculate (“Immaculate Creation” if you will), but they were in no way divine. (Granted, they didn’t remain sinless their whole lives, but I believe that could have remained sinless their whole lives.)

Elijah and Enoch were assumed bodily in heaven, but they were in no way divine.
Mary being called queen of Heaven mirrors Christ being King of King and Lord of Lords
I don’t have a counter-example for that one, but in any case “Queen of Heaven” isn’t a dogma. (I’m sure you’ve heard the analogy that compares Jesus and Mary with Solomon and Bathsheba, so I won’t rehash it here.)
 
I simply asked you to show me how the Marian dogmas are Biblical. Just be honest with yourself and with me and admit that they are not Biblical.
Thing is, some Catholics would say that they are biblical (i.e. contained in Scripture, at least implicitly), other Catholics would say they are not biblical. (If you find it frustrating that Catholics don’t agree with each other on that question, then just consider how it is for us Catholics to try to talk to Protestants, with all their varieties of beliefs! :eek: 😉 )
 
** Abandoning Him and His church for a false religion? I hope you aren’t also frequenting prostitutes for more meaningless gratification. You know that isn’t right.:tsktsk:

**
This is out of line and totally uncharitable.
 
Major Documented Early quotes on the History of the IC doctrine, Bible also cited, in free E-Magazine.
More Early Church fathers opposed this notion than condoned it. See what St. Thomas Aquinas said about it. See what Mary herself said about needing a Savior in the Scriptures. See also about who Paul said has never fallen short of the grace of God. The Immaculate Conception is not only not contained in the Bible, but the Bible itself speaks clearly in opposition to this notion.
 
More Early Church fathers opposed this notion than condoned it. See what St. Thomas Aquinas said about it. See what Mary herself said about needing a Savior in the Scriptures. See also about who Paul said has never fallen short of the grace of God. The Immaculate Conception is not only not contained in the Bible, but the Bible itself speaks clearly in opposition to this notion.
Immaculate Conception is implied in Luke–“Hail. Mary, Full of grace”

And as far as St. Paul is concerned, I assume you mean romans 3:23? The “all” is not an absolute, it is a generalization
 
My points, SIA, are that not everything is clearly written in the Bible. Tradition is key part of the Anglican Church also.Or Was. We sing the Awesome Charles Wesley, Luther, Bach hymns too. The Catholic Church wants to Preserve the great Religious and ethnic Cultures. John Paul II the Great is Who called world attention to that maybe a decade ago. No one else cared! Secularization wants to get rid of all tradition, ethnicity, Faith, picturing Religion as obsolete.
Here’s the problem. Let’s just deal with the Bible first. We can talk about Tradition and your magisterium later. First of all, not everything is contained in Scripture, I think anyone can figure that out. But, is it not reasonable to believe that Scripture would have the main grasp upon authority and truth? Again, there is nothing in there about the Marian dogmas, nothing… Scripture actually opposes some of these dogmas. Do we disregard what the Scriptures say in favor of the magisterium?? That is exactly what Catholicism has done.
 
Immaculate Conception is implied in Luke–“Hail. Mary, Full of grace”

And as far as St. Paul is concerned, I assume you mean romans 3:23? The “all” is not an absolute, it is a generalization
who says?
 
Lets handle the Epitle to the Romans first, shall we? The verse you were alluding to is Romans 3:23 “All have sinned and are deprived of the glory of God”.

One way to interpret scripture is to look at the textual context.

ROmans 3:11 There is no one just, not onethere is no one who understands, there is no one who seeks God."

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one person sin entered the world, and through sin, death, and thus death came to all, inasmuch as all sinned.

Three verses, all Paul’s letter to the Romans, all with seemingly absolute statements “all have sinned” “there is no one who seeks God” “death came to all”

If these absolute words: all and no one are always absolute, rhen we have a problem. A big one. Not everyone dies. Eveb at the time this letter ws written, neither Enoch nor Elijah died. They were assumed into heaven. So the “death came to all” is a generalization, not an absolute. Also, “there is no one who seeks God.” If this was an absolute then that means St. Paul wasnt seeking God. He was somebody, after all. And that means that, using a literlal interpretation, neither you nor i can seek God either. No one can. And Jesus commands us to. So we can conclude that “no one” is also a generalization. This brings us to “all have sinned.” I think it now stands to reason that the seemingly all inclusive words in this section of Romans are meant as generalizations of the human condintion, but there are exceptions.
 
Lets handle the Epitle to the Romans first, shall we? The verse you were alluding to is Romans 3:23 “All have sinned and are deprived of the glory of God”.

One way to interpret scripture is to look at the textual context.

ROmans 3:11 There is no one just, not onethere is no one who understands, there is no one who seeks God."

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one person sin entered the world, and through sin, death, and thus death came to all, inasmuch as all sinned.

Three verses, all Paul’s letter to the Romans, all with seemingly absolute statements “all have sinned” “there is no one who seeks God” “death came to all”

If these absolute words: all and no one are always absolute, rhen we have a problem. A big one. Not everyone dies. Eveb at the time this letter ws written, neither Enoch nor Elijah died. They were assumed into heaven. So the “death came to all” is a generalization, not an absolute. Also, “there is no one who seeks God.” If this was an absolute then that means St. Paul wasnt seeking God. He was somebody, after all. And that means that, using a literlal interpretation, neither you nor i can seek God either. No one can. And Jesus commands us to. So we can conclude that “no one” is also a generalization. This brings us to “all have sinned.” I think it now stands to reason that the seemingly all inclusive words in this section of Romans are meant as generalizations of the human condintion, but there are exceptions.
These are word games and schemes. Come on, we can read Paul’s letters and know what he is saying here. Is it a generalization when Jesus says in John 15 that he speaks to us not as servants but as his friends. Is that a genralization too?
 
This is out of line and totally uncharitable.
**Sorry SIA, **
That wasn’t my intention at all. I was making a point . But you seemed to target in on the one thing I said I hoped wasn’t the case and used that as an excuse not to answer any questions asked. It just went along with the entire picture, I have seen that happen many times.
Not just divorce, but sins of the flesh not allowed by the church,hmade the person feel justified for leaving. When the guilt set in, attacking the chiurch and the beliefs taught for 2,000 years because you disagreed with them. Doing that rather then just repenting and asking forgiveness. **
You didn’t any answer. You just made that self serving comment. Yea, I noticed. So by that I can assume that I was correct and you left the church for what we might call 'selffish" reasons?. I must also assume your attacks are directed at the church only to provide you with some sense of rightestness.
** SIA, just ask God for his forgiveness. It is that easy buddy. Jesus died for every one of our sins. The debt has already been paid! Take the yoke of your guilt and release yourself.


**The Blessed Mother will intercede on your behalf to her son, if you ask her. Being a woman she knows what to tell her son to obtain forgiveness for “your” uncharitable remarks said about her!👍 **

God Bless
 
These are word games and schemes. Come on, we can read Paul’s letters and know what he is saying here. Is it a generalization when Jesus says in John 15 that he speaks to us not as servants but as his friends. Is that a genralization too?
We can go to the gospels in a minuite. Right now we are talking about the context of the language in St. Paul’s letter to the Romans. TO interpret Scripture, we have to dig a little deeper and not just read the words, but look at how the words are used. Which is what I have done. Now, before we can continue, I need you to show how tthese passages are absolute, and not generalizations. Because if they are absolute, I need an edxplanation about Enoch and Elijah, and an explanaition about how Paul himself was not seeking God.
 
We can go to the gospels in a minuite. Right now we are talking about the context of the language in St. Paul’s letter to the Romans. TO interpret Scripture, we have to dig a little deeper and not just read the words, but look at how the words are used. Which is what I have done. Now, before we can continue, I need you to show how tthese passages are absolute, and not generalizations. Because if they are absolute, I need an edxplanation about Enoch and Elijah, and an explanaition about how Paul himself was not seeking God.
You are trying to make a point here that you cannot in good faith support and in all fairness is really not worth your effort. I don’t care what anyone says, the Holy Spirit is who enables one to read and fully understand Scripture. Word games and taking things out of context will never convince anyone who truly seeks the truth.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top