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Sailka
Guest
Common sense says. Where in Bible does it say that Jesus Christ was sinless? Or never married? Or was God the Son. A lot of Reason has to be used. Who was the Queen sitting next to God in Revelation, who fled to have her Baby? Perhaps the Blessed Virgin, just maybe?
Really Thanks for helping us all figure things all out. Slackers don’t learn much. You are seeking truth With us. Is the way we All learn. This is Great WEB. And some Junior members have best Posts, too.
Have you checked Anglican beliefs about the Blessed Virgin? And when the New Ideas about Mary, and many things like Right to life were changed. I’ve heard that all major Faiths were against birth Control until the Anglican Church said Choice, condomns OK in the 1930’s.
R
Realcatholicgk
Guest
**SIA and PeterJ.
SIA I sincerely apologize. I was wrong!
PeterJ. Thank you for correcting me. I must agree that it was wrong, but I sincerely didn’t mean to insult SIA. **
J
jfallaw
Guest
So say all of the members of all 30,000 Protestant churches, all ‘led by the Spirit’ to believe differently than all the others. All ‘led by the Spirit’ to be divisive, contradictory and intolerant rather than universal and loving. Now why can’t I believe that the Holy Spirit is all we need, or even that many Protestants have any Holy Spirit in them at all? Maybe some kind of spirit; but Holy? IDK…
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SIA
Guest
You are making false claims to propagate more drama here. Face it, your Marian dogmas are not Biblical and you can’t make an argument strong enough to prove that any of them are true. Play all the games you wish. Truth is truth.Common sense says. Where in Bible does it say that Jesus Christ was sinless? Or never married? Or was God the Son. A lot of Reason has to be used. Who was the Queen sitting next to God in Revelation, who fled to have her Baby? Perhaps the Blessed Virgin, just maybe?
Really Thanks for helping us all figure things all out. Slackers don’t learn much. You are seeking truth With us. Is the way we All learn. This is Great WEB. And some Junior members have best Posts, too.
Have you checked Anglican beliefs about the Blessed Virgin? And when the New Ideas about Mary, and many things like Right to life were changed. I’ve heard that all major Faiths were against birth Control until the Anglican Church said Choice, condomns OK in the 1930’s.
S
SIA
Guest
Thank you. Paul and Peter disagreed about much as well. Who was right?
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SIA
Guest
I must tell you that you have a profound misunderstanding of what Anglicans believe regarding Mary, The Saints, the sanctity of life and other issues. Here’s something to chew on from the beginning: Anglicans have believed in the same fashion since the early 1500’s. Nothing is new.
P
Peter_J
Guest
Yeah, I’m so tired of those intolerant Protestants. I wished they’d all go away.
U
ufamtobie
Guest
Sia,
LEAVE THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY ALONE!
Mary’s ‘Magnificant’
'My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
My spirit rejoices in God my Saviour.
For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness;
BEHOLD FROM NOW ON WILL ALL AGES CALL ME BLESSED. THE MIGHTY ONE HAS DONE GREAT THINGSSSS
FOR ME AND HOLY IS HIS NAME. His mercy is from age to age to those who fear him. He has shown might in his arm, dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart. He has thrown the rulers from their thrones but lifted up the lowly…
Sia, Virgin Mary filled with the Holy Spirit says that “THE LORD HAS DONE GREAT THINGS FOR ME”.
Not “thing” but “THINGS” and one of those thingsss that the Lord has done for is the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION…
Now you will not find this Word “Immaculate Conception” in the Bible.
Sia, what came first the Bible OR the Church?
TRUTH IS the Chruch came first, the Bible came a few centuries later, my point is, that the Early Church Fathers THE MAGISTERIUM GUIDED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO teached this about Mary that she was born sinless and that is Immaculate Conception.
TRUTH IS, Jesus did not leave the Bible to guide us he left the CHURCH GOVERNED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT to GUIDE US ALL.
Sia,why is it hard for you to believe that Virgin Mary was sinless/pure/clean? Maybe this will help you…there was another lady born/or created form Adams rib without sin…until they ate the apple and her name was EVE. food for thought digest it well.
Ufamtobie
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Realcatholicgk
Guest
**
Hi SIA,
The neat thing is that they are “Our” dogmas. We don’t have to proved anything to you, Sorry! :nope: But the good news is that you don’t have to believe in them! Who cares?
That isn’t the only thing that may keep your chursh’s followers from Heaven.The Marian dogmas are for the members of the real church, revealed by the Holy Spirit, to accord Mary the honor she deserves and explain to the original church the special place Mary holds in heaven. Your church’s beliefs, at only 500 years old mean nothing to Christ and his uncorrupted 2,000 year old church.
Do you actually believe we care what isn’t contained in the Bible?
We are not Sola Scriptura, that is a stupid notion, even you know that! It doesn’t say in the Bible that scriptures are the only source of knowledge ,and in fact it says the opposite doesn’t it?As you said: “Truth is truth”
The real church has it! Hail Mary, Full of Grace!
**
R
Realcatholicgk
Guest
**
PeterJ, I love your sense of Humor!
It isn’t as obvious as mine but it still made me laugh! **
R
Realcatholicgk
Guest
**Hi SIA,
It would take you four times more to chew on our 2,000 year old unchanging church with Jesus’ original beliefs and commandments being faithfully and I will add religiously followed!
Well, why don’t you try and explain your beliefs?
I know of your religion. I know your church’s 39 Articles of Religion. I know that history tells us that during the reigns of Henry VIII and Edward VI various sets of Articles had been approved by the Kings. (Not the Head of the real church, just “Kings” ) Henry wrote 10 himself in 1536, and a total of 42 were approved in 1553 near the end of Edward’s life. Then in 1562, 38 Articles were published at the start of the reign of Queen Elizabeth I. These Articles were approved by the bishops and clergy of England, but not without some debates with the Queen. In 1571 a number were improved and Article 19 was added to make the 39 Articles that your church now have. Since they were written against the real beliefs of the original church of course you don’t believe what we believe. That only means you aren’t a Catholic! Now about Mary, I hope the following article will help. I will give the source of the article at the end.
THE LAST WORD, Mary Who?
By
The Reverend Canon James Rosenthal
As I get older I often reminisce about my work in the Church over the years. I remember while serving as music coordinator for the Episcopal Diocese of Chicago, USA; how we worked so diligently to make sure that organists and choir masters selected appropriate music as they planned music for their congregations.
I remember with amusement a particular incident at one of the great holy days of the Christian year, the Annunciation of our Lord to the Blessed Virgin Mary. I was in conversation with an organist in one of the principal parishes of the diocese and I asked him over the phone, ‘What hymns are you going to pick for Mary?’ In a little sense of bewilderment, the organist said to me, ‘Mary who?’
Mary, the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ our Savior and God, is often the focus of devotion, prayer and commemoration during the month of May. There are many ancient reasons for this and, in many parts of the Communion where there are churches of the Catholic tradition, May is always a time to look at the role of Mary in the life of the Church. One of the great feasts that honor Mary falls in May, in the celebration in the Visitation of Mary to Elizabeth.
More and more, Church calendars are now including, as the principal celebration of Mary, the date 15 August, the day that is set aside to celebrate Mary’s being reunited with her son in glory. Mary is often a point of grave concern and discussion among certain Anglicans. Do we commemorate her too much or do we neglect her to our fault? How do we view the role of Mary in the plan of Salvation? How can we come to grips with the fact that indeed she could have said ‘No’ to the Annunciation?
Many of our churches in the Anglican Communion have beautiful stained glass windows, icons and images, as well as devotional organizations, that are dedicated to understanding Mary. It is a shame when devotion to Mary is used as a divisive issue, whether between those of the Protestant tradition and the Catholic tradition or amongst those who consider themselves traditionalists or modern Catholics. Mary is for everyone. She is not to be confined to a box of our own design. For many years in the Church she was the only female image that we had to ponder.
Of course, there are several thousand Anglican churches dedicated to St Mary, yet I would ask you to pray in particular for the work of three of the shrines that are run by Anglicans in Great Britain. They are: Our Lady and Three Kings in Haddington, Scotland; Our Lady of Pew, Westminster; and, of course, the renowned Nazareth of England, Our Lady of Walsingham in Norfolk. Just the other day we received word from the Bishop in Jerusalem that Christians were being prohibited by Muslim extremists to attend church on Easter Day in Nazareth, the place of the Annunciation, the place that Jesus called home. How sad; I’m sure Jesus weeps, Mary weeps and the communion of Saints weep when such bitterness and conflict attack the people of God in such a holy city.
I hope that the following words from Presiding Bishop Frank Griswold of the Episcopal Church, USA, will give us some perspective on how Anglicans can view St Mary in the life of the church.
“Clearly, the honor and devotion which we accord to Our Lady derive not from her exalted place in the Gospel accounts, but, rather, from what she in her song, Magnificat, terms her ‘lowliness’. Her profound and human struggle to yield herself to the complete undoing of her world and a safe and predictable future leads her to say, ‘yes’ to the deeply disturbing message of the angel at the Annunciation. The price of that assent to bear the Word takes her away from home into exile in Egypt, and brings with it the promise that ‘her heart will be pierced’ because of the child she has been chosen to bear.” …"
Click on The Source: THE LAST WORD
"…The Anglican Communion, Anglican World
Issue 94 Trinity 1999
I hope this helps to even show you SIA that there is room to disagree and still respect the devotion that even YOUR church gives to The Blessed Mother!**
B
brkn1
Guest
I see what is written in the Bible means little to you, but I would still like to correct a description of Mary that you use, which is only used for Jesus in the Bible.**Do you actually believe we care what isn’t contained in the Bible?
**As you said: “Truth is truth”
The phrase “full of grace” ( pleres charis) is used to describe Jesus in (John1:14).
The phrase “be highly favored” (charitoo) is used by the angel to describe Mary in (Luke 1:28).
The words are quite different in meaning and the switching of the description for Jesus to describe Mary is unbiblical.
I know…I know… you don’t care about silly little details when it comes to your version of the truth. Throw out the Bible and go “full of speed” ahead.
C
CWBetts
Guest
If you REALLY looked you would see the Greek in Luke means an imparted grace, suggesting the immaculate conception. Catholics DO NOT as you put it “throw out the Bible” We just realize that God gave us more than the Bible, he gave us the Church to help us understand His Word.
R
Realcatholicgk
Guest
**
Hi br,
Actually what you think means nothing to us! You have your opinion, We have the truth. What you said above is so incorrect. You better study your greek a little better. Where did you get those ideas? I won’t provide you the corrrect translation it has been posted many times. Your’s in correct as is your thinking!
Oh, we do care about the “silly little details”! Jesus founded his church 2,000 years ago. Anyone who doesn’t follow what His chuch says is a heretic.
those are a few of the silly little details that Jesus agrees with!“Behold, from now all generations shall call me blessed.
The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name.” Luke 1, 48-49
Mary’s Divine maternity is just one ‘great thing’ she has been blessed with. All the other great things she has been blessed with, which include her Immaculate Conception and Assumption into Heaven, rest on the singular privilege of being the Mother of God.
Since you are outside the real church, founded by Jesus, and are part of cancerous growth which started 500 years ago or less, you are in no position to question 2,000 years of Sacred Tradition in the Apostolic Catholic Church. These so-called false labels of Mary have been granted her by the Holy Spirit, who guides our Lord’s Church in all truth. You have no authority over our church nor our beliefs. You must obey your own faulty beliefs and not worry about ours. They have been fine for 2,000 years, thank you very much!
Code:
So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.They said, “Men of Galilee, why are you standing there looking at the sky? This Jesus who was taken up from you into heaven will return in the same way as you have seen him going into heaven.”
Acts 1-11
Christ’s resurrection was not a return to life on earth in the temporal order, as were the resurrections of Jairus’ daughter, the young man of Naim, and Lazarus, who were miraculously restored to life by Jesus. Our Lord’s resurrection differs significantly. He passed from the state of death to another life beyond physical time and space. At his resurrection Jesus’ body was filled with the power of the Holy Spirit. Our Lord shares the divine life in his glorious bodily state, having retained his human soul, mind, and will. Thus Paul can declare that Jesus is “the man of heaven” read: 1 Corinthians 15: 35-50.
The Blessed Mother Mary, who shares in our Lord’s divine glory by her glorious Assumption into heaven, is the Mother of our Lord for all eternity. For this reason especially Jesus assumed her into heaven body and soul. This preceeds our own bodily resurrection from the dead. She is now in heaven together with her divine Son, who is still the God-Man but forever now in his glory. And he alone is her offspring - the Word made flesh.
“it was fitting that she, who had kept her virginity intact in childbirth, should keep her own body free from all corruption even after death. It was fitting that she, who had carried the Creator as a child at her breast, should dwell in the divine tabernacles. It was fitting that the spouse, whom the Father had taken to himself, should live in the divine mansions. It was fitting that she, who had seen her Son upon the cross and who had thereby received into her heart the sword of sorrow which she had escaped when giving birth to him, should look upon him as he sits with the Father. It was fitting that God’s Mother should possess what belongs to her Son, and that she should be honoured by every creature as the Mother and as the handmaid of God.”
John of Damascene, Dormition of Mary (PG 96, 741) [ante. A.D. 749]
The Bible is one sourse, The real church has many sources! We have the truth, you haven’t an idea what is true. God Bless!**
B
benedictus2
Guest
Study in depth the Marian dogmas then ask the question if after having done so there are still any left.
It is very easy to do that in this age of the internet and google.
This is a thread in this forum where that topic was discussed.
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=265564
Here are two websites and there are heaps other if you really want to understand why we believe in the Marian Dogmas.
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/index2.htm
http://www.ourcatholicfaith.org/mary.html
S
Sailka
Guest
Step-brother in Christ SIA, What false claim(s) have I made? When did the Anglican Church turn to approving condomn use, and pro-choice? If not in the 1930’s, as ther First Traditional Christian Church to do so, then when?
I’ve never been game-player in my life; is totally against my Austrian Catholic Nobility Essence.
*Why do you refuse to acknowledge, or read the First Centuries “Pre-500’s” early Church Fathers on the always sinless Mary? Here is a specific Link: The Immaculate Conception: Basic Foundations of the Dogma *
S
SIA
Guest
And what is your point in all of this? I know what the doctrines and beliefs are in the Anglican church and you claim to as well. So what? The beliefs of the Catholic church are debated amongst it’s own faithful as well. Are you saying that they are not? A duck is a duck no matter what it quacks like. Nice try.**Hi SIA,
It would take you four times more to chew on our 2,000 year old unchanging church with Jesus’ original beliefs and commandments being faithfully and I will add religiously followed!
Well, why don’t you try and explain your beliefs?
I know of your religion. I know your church’s 39 Articles of Religion. I know that history tells us that during the reigns of Henry VIII and Edward VI various sets of Articles had been approved by the Kings. (Not the Head of the real church, just “Kings” ) Henry wrote 10 himself in 1536, and a total of 42 were approved in 1553 near the end of Edward’s life. Then in 1562, 38 Articles were published at the start of the reign of Queen Elizabeth I. These Articles were approved by the bishops and clergy of England, but not without some debates with the Queen. In 1571 a number were improved and Article 19 was added to make the 39 Articles that your church now have. Since they were written against the real beliefs of the original church of course you don’t believe what we believe. That only means you aren’t a Catholic! Now about Mary, I hope the following article will help. I will give the source of the article at the end.
THE LAST WORD, Mary Who?
By
The Reverend Canon James Rosenthal**
As I get older I often reminisce about my work in the Church over the years. I remember while serving as music coordinator for the Episcopal Diocese of Chicago, USA; how we worked so diligently to make sure that organists and choir masters selected appropriate music as they planned music for their congregations.
I remember with amusement a particular incident at one of the great holy days of the Christian year, the Annunciation of our Lord to the Blessed Virgin Mary. I was in conversation with an organist in one of the principal parishes of the diocese and I asked him over the phone, ‘What hymns are you going to pick for Mary?’ In a little sense of bewilderment, the organist said to me, ‘Mary who?’
Mary, the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ our Savior and God, is often the focus of devotion, prayer and commemoration during the month of May. There are many ancient reasons for this and, in many parts of the Communion where there are churches of the Catholic tradition, May is always a time to look at the role of Mary in the life of the Church. One of the great feasts that honor Mary falls in May, in the celebration in the Visitation of Mary to Elizabeth.
More and more, Church calendars are now including, as the principal celebration of Mary, the date 15 August, the day that is set aside to celebrate Mary’s being reunited with her son in glory. Mary is often a point of grave concern and discussion among certain Anglicans. Do we commemorate her too much or do we neglect her to our fault? How do we view the role of Mary in the plan of Salvation? How can we come to grips with the fact that indeed she could have said ‘No’ to the Annunciation?
Many of our churches in the Anglican Communion have beautiful stained glass windows, icons and images, as well as devotional organizations, that are dedicated to understanding Mary. It is a shame when devotion to Mary is used as a divisive issue, whether between those of the Protestant tradition and the Catholic tradition or amongst those who consider themselves traditionalists or modern Catholics. Mary is for everyone. She is not to be confined to a box of our own design. For many years in the Church she was the only female image that we had to ponder.
Of course, there are several thousand Anglican churches dedicated to St Mary, yet I would ask you to pray in particular for the work of three of the shrines that are run by Anglicans in Great Britain. They are: Our Lady and Three Kings in Haddington, Scotland; Our Lady of Pew, Westminster; and, of course, the renowned Nazareth of England, Our Lady of Walsingham in Norfolk. Just the other day we received word from the Bishop in Jerusalem that Christians were being prohibited by Muslim extremists to attend church on Easter Day in Nazareth, the place of the Annunciation, the place that Jesus called home. How sad; I’m sure Jesus weeps, Mary weeps and the communion of Saints weep when such bitterness and conflict attack the people of God in such a holy city.
I hope that the following words from Presiding Bishop Frank Griswold of the Episcopal Church, USA, will give us some perspective on how Anglicans can view St Mary in the life of the church.
“Clearly, the honor and devotion which we accord to Our Lady derive not from her exalted place in the Gospel accounts, but, rather, from what she in her song, Magnificat, terms her ‘lowliness’. Her profound and human struggle to yield herself to the complete undoing of her world and a safe and predictable future leads her to say, ‘yes’ to the deeply disturbing message of the angel at the Annunciation. The price of that assent to bear the Word takes her away from home into exile in Egypt, and brings with it the promise that ‘her heart will be pierced’ because of the child she has been chosen to bear.” …"
Click on The Source: THE LAST WORD
"…The Anglican Communion, Anglican World
Issue 94 Trinity 1999
I hope this helps to even show you SIA that there is room to disagree and still respect the devotion that even YOUR church gives to The Blessed Mother!
P
Peter_J
Guest
Thank you. :nun2:**
PeterJ, I love your sense of Humor!
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