How do I minister to my husband in this situation?

[newf]

SemperJase said:
I guess I’m missing something. Why is the offended person required to apologize?

Catholic or not, your husband’s behavior is disrespectful. He is using your religion as a weapon against you. His name calling about you being “holier than thou” is degrading and emotionally manipulative. He is trying to make you guilty for having standards.

I don’t see how being a good christian wife means you must be a doormat for his insecurities. I’d suggest it is time to set some boundaries.

If you don’t like the swimsuit issue and he says your are being prudish, explain how it makes you feel less desired when he leers at other women. When he says “let’s f----” tell him that it makes you feel like an object, not the object of his love.

When you start taking the blame for his actions, he will respect you even less.

**SemperJase has a good point here. The husband should always be treating his wife with respect. But this husband of Nancy’s is basically very immature and crude. He’s not a real man. A real man would never treat his wife so badly. When dealing with someone who is so insecure, he needs to be reassured and to know that his wife was not trying to hurt him by saying she didn’t like him using the’f’ word. **

**Nancy is to be commended for still putting up with this guy, and for continuing to try to show love to him. I hope her love and kindness will help him grow into the man he should be. **

 

[KCT]

Catholic4aReasn:

I did change my behavior. Asking him to stop did nothing but make him mad so now I try not to negatively react to anything. Nancy

Being honest about something that bothers you is not reacting negatively. It’s being honest. You don’t make him mad and you don’t control his emotions - he does.

I don’t know your situation, but I’ve been married for almost 22 years to a man who, in my opinion, over reacts often! Initially, my response was to keep quiet and not ‘make him mad’. Silly me. That simply allowed him to continue his bad behavior.

In spiritual direction a priest pointed out my error. Peace at any price is not peace at all and God does not want us to let our husbands treat us this way. I will be judged on how I let people treat me. That was a wake up call.

Sure things have been tough since I started speaking up more. Dh commented that we seem to be having more disagreements. I said of course we are! I’m no longer willing to keep silent when he does something that hurts me. If it means more fights, so be it.

I also started seeing a counselor to help me deal with his behavior! (Seems backwards, doesn’t it? But if I’m the one who’s not happy, I have to initiate change.) She’s been great at helping me set boundaries and work on being assertive.

I think there are alot of women in similar situations. —KCT

 

[TridentineFan]

In reaction to JeffAustralia who wrote:

And remember that it’s your OWN spiritual journey that’s your responsibility, and not his.

This is not my understanding of marriage. In our premarital instruction, my husband and I were taught that our primary goal as pertains to our spouse should be to get our spouse to heaven. We are two made one flesh now; therefore, we are to each help sanctify the other.

Note the Catechism:

1. "By reason of their state in life and of their order, [Christian spouses] have their own special gifts in the People of God."147 This grace proper to the sacrament of Matrimony is intended to perfect the couple’s love and to strengthen their indissoluble unity. By this grace they "help one another to attain holiness in their married life and in welcoming and educating their children."148 [LG 11 § 2; cf. LG 41.]

Note Casti Connubii by Pius XI (1930):

1. This mutual molding of husband and wife, this determined effort to perfect each other, can in a very real sense, as the Roman Catechism teaches, be said to be the chief reason and purpose of matrimony, provided matrimony be looked at not in the restricted sense as instituted for the proper conception and education of the child, but more widely as the blending of life as a whole and the mutual interchange and sharing thereof.

Note the Pauline Privilege described in the Bible:

1 Corinthians 7:13: And if any woman hath a husband that believeth not, and he consent to dwell with her, let her not put away her husband. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the believing wife; and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the believing husband: otherwise your children should be unclean; but now they are holy.

My understanding is that we are very much responsible for the souls of those whom God has given us, not that it is our ultimate responsibility, but that God will hold us accountable to some degree (I gave you this husband, what did you do to help him get to heaven?). For all Catholics, this applies to the examples we set for those familiar to us and strangers alike who see our behavior. For those of us in the vocation of marriage, this applies to our spouses and children. For our dear priests and bishops, this applies to all of the people in their parishes and dioceses–a terrifying prospect, which is why we should be praying for all our priests and bishops.

From what I have read here, I cannot laud Nancy enough for trying to love her husband, despite his weaknesses, as if he were Christ (which is how we are to love everybody).

 

[wisdom_3_5]

OP, you sound alot like me. My husband in some ways sounds like your husband. My husband was hooked on porn which eventually led to an affair. He treated me very badly during the affair, calling me prudish etc. It was his way of justifying, in his mind, his affair - “my wife’s a prude, sex is natural etc etc”. I’m not saying you husband is in an affair, but name calling and his treatment of you (looking disgustedly at you) are, to me, red flags.

I know how much it hurts to have your husband look at and treat you with contempt and only because you are living a pure life. My husband, deep down, recognized his behavior was wrong and my clear, firm morals in regards to sex was like salt in the wound. He hated me, I loved him and was so confused. I clung to God and He got me through it. There was a time that I couldn’t even mention God or faith or bible study to my husband.

We attended a Retrouvaille weekend and post sessions. It helped alot. We still had/have work to do but are in a much better place now. Retrouvaille is for couples with problem marriages. Your hesitancy to communicate (among other things) is an indication that your marriage is in trouble. Retrouvaille can give you the tools to help save and change your marriage.

My husband was worried that it would be very judgemental, coming down hard on him, siding with me etc. But that wasn’t so, and we learned insights into our behaviors that helped us understand each other better. It put us back on the same side (our marriage) instead of opposite ones.

If you would like to PM me about our Retrouvaille experience I’d be gald to tell you more about it.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Thank you!

ConcernCatholic:

Ok, I just have to offer you some support here. I don’t think disliking the f word is strange. The unfettered use of it is actually quite disturbing but that should be a thread by itself.

I don’t think you are being overly scrupulous at all. There is a huge difference between what you do in private versus what you do in public. Saying this out loud for all to hear is a bit much. I am all for getting slutty for my husband behind closed doors but in public, well, that is just not acceptable.

Not really advice, but I just had to give you some support here as a fellow woman.

 

[kage_ar]

Catholic4aReasn:

It never occurred to me that not liking the f word was a strange thing among Christians. I was probably also wrong in being bothered when, at a party last month, my husband yelled to me, for all to hear, “show your tits!”. I guess I could be a little overscrupulous. I’ll need to pray about that.

Marti Gras party? Anyway, I’d have yelled back “Who has ZITS?” or some such comeback. A soft answer turns away wrath

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Thanks for your reply!

I’m going to repeat something here that I told someone in a PM. The issue here is NOT sex. Many of you have made this all about sex, but the issue is our different moral standards. The problem isn’t in the bedroom but everywhere else. I’m not a prude in bed. That’s not an issue for us at all. It’s my dislike for swearing, drunkeness, and overt slutiness that causes my husband to think me a prude and a priss. My comments, while in the context of sex, were not about sex at all but my dislike of his choice of words.

Let’s put the sex thing to rest.

cricket331:

I am going to offer up a few things as well, I can truely see your side of this issue, and I can see a potential for his. I am one of those that gets extra Heated up sometimes when “dirty words” are thrown into the mix, I use them myself sometimes.and most of my friends are the same way as well. Its possible he was "testing the wtares so to speak to see if maybe he would get a good response from you, maybe a friend of his has a wife that goes bannanas when talked to in that way, I have a friend that goes over the edge everytime her husband talks “nasty” to her.
everyone has there own lil nitch, some people “dress up” for extra spice and get rid of the same old same old routines.
heres something that could help you out…

Make a really nice candle lit dinner for no apparent reason.
sit down to dinner and conversation.tell him how you feel about the dirty words, maybe add in you deeply appreciate how he tries to enhance your feelings during lovemaking,but tell him the words just dont do it for you, then tell him something that DOES for you.
ask him what does it for him,Its possible the terms prude and priss come from you and he not sitting down and discussing something so natural as sex, Remember nothing about sex is dirty, some of us have been brought up to believe it is,but its not.
Its the most special gift we as humans have been given.
if you think or feel its dirty talk to someone,if not thats great ,tell your man what flaots your boat, the old saying everyone has a fantasy! thats a great place to start, he will find you are not the prude he thinks you are.
I would love to say oh he is just treating you bad and wants to control you, but not knowing him,or you. I have to assume that he had all the best intentions,even with the terms prude and priss I would like to think he was just trying to maybe get you to look at yourself ,your actions,and maybe see something, and dont get me wrong i am not saying he is just in the words, but men can be crietons, esspecially when following a friends possible advice.

in closing remember Communication is the key to success

I have some more things I would also like to share with you but will do so in a private message,things that could possibly be causing these terms to be used towards you, that possibly havnt been thought about…

all the best and God Bless you

Nancy

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

TridentineFan:

This is not my understanding of marriage. In our premarital instruction, my husband and I were taught that our primary goal as pertains to our spouse should be to get our spouse to heaven. We are two made one flesh now; therefore, we are to each help sanctify the other.

I completely agree!!

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Thank you very much! I’ll give it some thought.

In Christ,
Nancy
wisdom 3:5:

OP, you sound alot like me. My husband in some ways sounds like your husband. My husband was hooked on porn which eventually led to an affair. He treated me very badly during the affair, calling me prudish etc. It was his way of justifying, in his mind, his affair - “my wife’s a prude, sex is natural etc etc”. I’m not saying you husband is in an affair, but name calling and his treatment of you (looking disgustedly at you) are, to me, red flags.

I know how much it hurts to have your husband look at and treat you with contempt and only because you are living a pure life. My husband, deep down, recognized his behavior was wrong and my clear, firm morals in regards to sex was like salt in the wound. He hated me, I loved him and was so confused. I clung to God and He got me through it. There was a time that I couldn’t even mention God or faith or bible study to my husband.

We attended a Retrouvaille weekend and post sessions. It helped alot. We still had/have work to do but are in a much better place now. Retrouvaille is for couples with problem marriages. Your hesitancy to communicate (among other things) is an indication that your marriage is in trouble. Retrouvaille can give you the tools to help save and change your marriage.

My husband was worried that it would be very judgemental, coming down hard on him, siding with me etc. But that wasn’t so, and we learned insights into our behaviors that helped us understand each other better. It put us back on the same side (our marriage) instead of opposite ones.

If you would like to PM me about our Retrouvaille experience I’d be gald to tell you more about it.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

kage_ar:

Marti Gras party? Anyway, I’d have yelled back “Who has ZITS?” or some such comeback. A soft answer turns away wrath

No, it’s was the dessert portion of a progressive dinner. The guys were playing poker and the women were playing The Price Is Right on DVD. One of the ladies yelled that it was my turn and that’s when my husband yelled his lovely comment. When he does things like that he doesn’t even notice that no one laughs or that the women look at me.

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

newf:

I don’t see how being a good christian wife means you must be a doormat for his insecurities. I’d suggest it is time to set some boundaries.

**. **

“Setting boundaries” does no good. He knows what bothers me and does it anyway. What’s to be done when the boundaries are crossed? Tell him he crossed it? He already knows. I’m not leaving him so what options are left?

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[ConcernCatholic]

“Setting boundaries” does no good. He knows what bothers me and does it anyway. What’s to be done when the boundaries are crossed? Tell him he crossed it? He already knows. I’m not leaving him so what options are left?

In Christ,
Nancy

This may sound bad and I am sure that some people will agree with me and some will disagree. Have you and your husband had a good old fashioned fight? I am not talking about discussing here. There was a period of time when my husband and I didn’t have the best of relationship. I would try to talk to him rationally and he would hear what I was saying but wasn’t listening. (Does that make sense?) It was like he was going through the motions but wasn’t connecting with anybody or anything. The lights were on but nobody was home. (He was addicted to porn and was incapable of being emotionally intimate at the time.) There were times that I literally had to yell to get his attention. It was not the ideal situation but it was obvious that any attempt at rational conversation went right over his head. It was horrible. I didn’t dare say anything to him about what I needed because then he would go on about how he was a bad husband yadayadayada…It was bad because I felt like I had to say something but felt like I couldn’t say something all at the same time. To really get his attention, I all but had to throw a fit to get him to realize that I was serious and that I didn’t want to hear his whining about how bad of a husband he was and how he didn’t deserve me. You can take a vacation from him without actually leaving him. Maybe you could go visit family or friends for a couple of days without him. You need some time to recoup.

 

[dulcissima]

Correct me if I am wrong here, but it sounds like your husband calls you names, humiliates you in front of others, belittles your faith, and has a drinking problem, and yet he is not held accountable in any way for these actions. You can’t even communicate your feelings because he will get mad. Meanwhile your kids are left thinking this is how a husband treats a wife. Have you discussed this with your priest at all?

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

dulcissima:

Correct me if I am wrong here, but it sounds like your husband calls you names, humiliates you in front of others, belittles your faith, and has a drinking problem, and yet he is not held accountable in any way for these actions. You can’t even communicate your feelings because he will get mad. Meanwhile your kids are left thinking this is how a husband treats a wife. Have you discussed this with your priest at all?

To my husband’s credit he contains himself pretty well around the kids when it comes to me. Not perfectly, but really quite well for him. How do I hold him accountable without leaving him? I sincerely don’t know.

No, I haven’t talked to my priest about it. Maybe I should. Maybe, at the very least, he’ll pray for him.

Thanks!

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[KCT]

Catholic4aReasn:

. One of the ladies yelled that it was my turn and that’s when my husband yelled his lovely comment. When he does things like that he doesn’t even notice that no one laughs or that the women look at me. In Christ, Nancy

Does he frequently blurt things out and have no clue that it’s innappropriate? My ADD husband and kids do it rather frequently. If something like that happens again, you have options. Ask a friend to take you home. Take the car and let him find a ride home. Don’t act like you can’t do anything about it.

As for crossing boundaries, you need to decide what your reaction will be when they’re crossed. My dh has, on several occasions, ruined Sunday dinners because he’s mad at me. He hardly talks to anyone at the table, scowls, and gets up and leaves when he’s through eating. He makes sure everyone knows he’s angry. (Pretty childish, in my opinion

The last time it appeard that might happen, I told him that if he was too angry to have a pleasant dinner, the kids and I would either order take out or go out for dinner. I refused to allow the meal to be ruined. (we ended up ordering pizza) The point is, I had to give forethought to various situations and decide what I would do in each case.

Consider the various things he does that you consider crossing the line. Decide on a reaction and stick to it. And don’t be afraid of a fight. When you start to change, he will push harder for you to change back. You’ll be upsetting the status quo and he won’t like it! Remember, you’re made in the image and likeness of God. You deserve to be treated w/ respect. —KCT

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Hi!

I’ve left parties before and always know that I’ll be facing several days of being completely invisible.

My husband has had one foot out the door before and the very last thing I want is for my kids to grow up living in two different places. It’s kind of a delicate situation.

In Christ,
Nancy

KCT:

Does he frequently blurt things out and have no clue that it’s innappropriate? My ADD husband and kids do it rather frequently. If something like that happens again, you have options. Ask a friend to take you home. Take the car and let him find a ride home. Don’t act like you can’t do anything about it.

As for crossing boundaries, you need to decide what your reaction will be when they’re crossed. My dh has, on several occasions, ruined Sunday dinners because he’s mad at me. He hardly talks to anyone at the table, scowls, and gets up and leaves when he’s through eating. He makes sure everyone knows he’s angry. (Pretty childish, in my opinion

The last time it appeard that might happen, I told him that if he was too angry to have a pleasant dinner, the kids and I would either order take out or go out for dinner. I refused to allow the meal to be ruined. (we ended up ordering pizza) The point is, I had to give forethought to various situations and decide what I would do in each case.

Consider the various things he does that you consider crossing the line. Decide on a reaction and stick to it. And don’t be afraid of a fight. When you start to change, he will push harder for you to change back. You’ll be upsetting the status quo and he won’t like it! Remember, you’re made in the image and likeness of God. You deserve to be treated w/ respect. —KCT

 

[SemperJase]

Catholic4aReasn:

I’ve left parties before and always know that I’ll be facing several days of being completely invisible.

Here is where you set a boundary. Point out his behavior by telling him this is his decision and you will not feel guilty for his behavior.

My husband has had one foot out the door before and the very last thing I want is for my kids to grow up living in two different places. It’s kind of a delicate situation.

So if he threatens to leave, do you cave? Sounds like he is using this threat as emotional blackmail.
You may need to call his bluff. “I love you and want you to stay but degrading me is not acceptable. So what are you going to do?”
Him leaving would be bad. His degrading you and you allowing him to do it out of false guilt is also bad.

How do you minister to him? Expect him to treat you with dignity. If he threatens to leave because he won’t treat you appropriately, you may have to let him. That is HIS decision. All the while you tell him that you want him to stay and treat you with respect.

 

[Scout]

“Setting boundaries” does no good. He knows what bothers me and does it anyway. What’s to be done when the boundaries are crossed? Tell him he crossed it? He already knows. I’m not leaving him so what options are left?

In Christ,
Nancy

I’m sorry to say it like this, but if you’re unwilling to set boundaries and are going to continue to let him say and do whatever he wants, then I suggest you just get used to him treating you this way. You’re not willing to make any changes or ask him to do the same, so what’s the point of seeking advice? Until you’re willing to stand up for yourself, and your children, he’s going to continue to treat you however he wants.

Also, I know you feel that this is your chance to witness to your husband for Christ, but what are you really teaching him? That Christians can be walked-over anytime the mood strikes him? That Christians are a bunch of wimps who won’t stand up for themselves. He’s abusive. No where did Jesus tell us that wives were supposed to be mules to be abused anytime anyone felt like it. And if he’s talking this way to you now, get ready-because sooner or later he’s going to start talking this way to the children.

Scout :tiphat:

 

[Island_Oak]

Catholic4aReasn:

My husband has had one foot out the door before and the very last thing I want is for my kids to grow up living in two different places. It’s kind of a delicate situation.

Perhaps the very last thing you should want for your kids is to let them grow up thinking that it is perfectly acceptable within a marriage for one spouse to manipulate, abuse, ignore and demean the other spouse. The seeds you are planting will bear poisonous fruit for yet another generation.

After following this thread I’m forced to ask what you really think you’re accomplishing. You’re unhappy, walking on eggshells, providing a skewed and disturbed example of marriage to your kids and mistakenly believing it’s all being done to honor your religious convictions–when in reality it demeans them because they are being used as an excuse to avoid dealing with a pathology in your relationship.

You have a responsibility–to yourself, your children and your God to move outside your comfort zone and try to cure the cancer that will destroy your family’s life. Is it really worth placating your husband at all costs–including your children’s emotional and spiritual welfare as well as your own? How have you let him get such a hold over you that you are willing to sacrifice your own God-given dignity to keep him around? You know by now that being meek is not going to turn him around, but only further encourage his mistreatment and self-centeredness. So how long are you willing to keep living like this?!

 

[dulcissima]

Just so you know where I am coming from here, I have probably lived pretty similarly to the way that you have, and all that I have accomplished is to spoil my husband. I certainly haven’t brought him any closer to God. In fact by allowing him to treat me in such an unloving and disprespectful manner, I have probably done just the opposite. I never shared any of his treatment of me with my family because I didn’t want to damage him in their eyes. They saw enough to disturb them, but there was a whole lot more that they had no idea about. I didn’t want to go to counseling, because I knew I would be told to leave.

Finally, I did get to the point that I knew something had to be done, and started asking for counseling and for my husband to give up drinking. He wouldn’t do this. Finally, we had a blow up, and I made plans to move out. Like your husband, mine had threatened to leave me for years. Well, when he saw that I really was going to leave, he made me every promise to change, and he did try, for a couple of weeks. That was almost a year ago. Our old patterns reestablished themselves, and he is just as abusive as ever. Last December though this all came up in confession, and my priest told me I have to leave him since he is not willing to get help and this is a situation that is harming me and harming my children. I told him I really wasn’t ready to do that, and my priest actually gave me a deadline to do it, no later than June. I do feel like that was the Holy Spirit talking to me, telling me what I already knew deep down inside. I am working with my parents and plan to meet that deadline. I really do hope that is what it will take to wake my husband up, because my strategy of being loving and forgiving certainly wasn’t working. I’m not telling him about these plans because I think he could be dangerous if he knew that he was losing control over me, and also because this is not just a threat. I AM leaving with no intention of coming back.

I am not telling you all this not because I think you have to do just what I am doing, I’m just letting you know that what you are doing is not effective. It is not going to bring your husband any closer to God, and it is not a healthy life for you or your children. You are going to need to DO something. I think talking to a priest about your particular situation would be a good starting point.