How Do You Understand Church Teaching About Our Blessed Mother?

[Tomyris]

Wise move.

 

[setarcos]

You’re missing a LOT of really important historical, linguistic, and cultural context here.

Do tell, that’s why I’m here. I have read a lot on early Jewish culture. That’s not to say I haven’t “missed” something critical to understanding, just that I at least may be able to make intelligible your information. I do love wisdom and correct correction. Blessings to you.

 

[Exiled_Child]

How Do You Understand Church Teaching About Our Blessed Mother?

Hi patricius ,

Rather than try and answer your question, I’d like to recommend a book that’s very dear to my heart. It’s called The Mother of the Saviour: And Our Interior Life, by Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange. It’s a wonderful, wonderful, beautiful book, like food for the soul. Honestly, I really think you’d enjoy it and get a lot out of it. It’s so worth the cover price, but I understand that it can sometimes be kind of sketchy laying out money for stuff recommended by some stranger on the internet. I mean, you could try to find it at the library first, and then maybe purchase it afterwards. But I’ll just add that I wouldn’t write any of this, or encourage you to make this book part of your life, if I didn’t strongly suspect you would benefit from it.

amazon.com/Mother-Saviour-Our-Interior-Life/dp/0895554992

https://www.tanbooks.com/media/cata...df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/2/1242x.jpg

 

[Tomyris]

Yeah, good point. I didn’t mean turn the mind off. That was probably an overreaction to Certain People. You can’t understand without thinking, but the mistake is when you venture willfully into areas that are known and agreed to be error. “But we LIKE playing football in the cabbage patch!”.

 

[patricius79]

Dear (name removed by moderator),

I don’t know what you are referring to, and I want to stay on topic and always be very respectful of one another and of our Blessed Mother and her Son rather than discuss other poster.

As I recall, and as I understand it, the disagreement on this particular thread–and again, I’m not referring to specific posters–was about the claim that personally loving Mary is categorically unnecessary for salvation.

Because Mary is the Mother of God, the Reparatrix of the world, and the Mother of each human person, I disagree with that claim (that personal devotion to her is not necessary), though I understand the concepts of invincible ignorance and psychological impediments and don’t condemn anyone, least of all those who haven’t been blessed with the opportunity to develop an explicit and conscious love for their Blessed Mother.

Peace of Jesus Christ,

Pat

 

[pianistclare]

4: I got the idea that Jesus never addressed Mary as his mother from reading the bible. Not once does Jesus address Mary as his mother. He actually didn’t address her at Cana as mother. Reread the verses. He addresses her as woman. Not only that but the context of the verse shows he addresses her in an almost dismissive, admonishing tone for her ignorance of his mission and her presumption upon him because of this.
As for familial relationships, how close could they have been to only assume her only child was among the caravan when they left, not even checking? It was a full 2 or 3 days before they found him, who wouldn’t be distraught after losing a child (when you realize it) wink wink, then when found he again admonishes her for not knowing where he would be. How does this possibly reflect the close family union so adamantly touted by Catholics let alone her spiritual union with her son? So far she hasn’t’ a clue as to what he’s up to and why. Your really have to close one eye to squeeze out the Mary that Catholics get out of the bible In my possibly ignorant opinion. But wait, there’s more…
5: If that doesn’t make you question how close they were, what about Mark 3:21. Jesus’s family says that “he is out of his mind” when they hear about his preaching again to another crowd. We must conclude Mary is included here since she shows up with the rest of his family to speak to him in Mark 3:31. This again brings up the question of Mary and Jesus family’s comprehension of his mission. Where is Mary’s total communion with the Lord so far? Up to this point in the narrative its very questionable. The context is clear. Jesus’s next statement shows that he is admonishing his family for their ignorance. He tells the gathered group who his Mother and brethren are! And its not an exclusive title given to Mary alone, if ever, since he never addresses her directly as his Mother. As I’ve pointed out. Please, please be reasonable in your answers. Simply using hyperbole, and extravagant titles and esoteric latten phrases in describing her status does nothing for those who aren’t there yet.

It’s LATIN, not latten.
Read some good Catholic books. Particularly the one Exiled Child recommended.

 

[patricius79]

Hi patricius ,

Rather than try and answer your question, I’d like to recommend a book that’s very dear to my heart. It’s called The Mother of the Saviour: And Our Interior Life, by Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange. It’s a wonderful, wonderful, beautiful book, like food for the soul. Honestly, I really think you’d enjoy it and get a lot out of it. It’s so worth the cover price, but I understand that it can sometimes be kind of sketchy laying out money for stuff recommended by some stranger on the internet. I mean, you could try to find it at the library first, and then maybe purchase it afterwards. But I’ll just add that I wouldn’t write any of this, or encourage you to make this book part of your life, if I didn’t strongly suspect you would benefit from it.

amazon.com/Mother-Saviour-Our-Interior-Life/dp/0895554992
]

Dear brother, Exiled Child,

Thank you very much. I will look into this. It looks like some claim that this is the best book on Mariology available, even though it was published in 1948. Apparently the offer affirms–wth St. Alphonsus Liguori and others—that Mary is holier than all the rest of creation combined. This is so beautiful!

Thank you, your grateful brother,

pat

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Dear Roseeurekacross,

I think that God the Son showed His Infinite Mercy through becoming the child of His creature, Mary. If you disagree with that, could you explain your belief somewhat?

Yes, priests represent Christ and our relationships with them should be mutually respectful… A priest can–like us-- be in error, especially if they are giving opinions about the Mother of God which are not taught by the fathers, saints, doctors, or the Magisterium (Papal encyclicals, Councils, etc).

In union with Jesus Christ and His Magisterium, it is our Blessed Mother who is our great teacher, as Pope St. Pius 10th says in his encyclical Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum, regarding the Immaculate Conception:

7. And that through the Virgin, and through her more than through any other means, we have offered us a way of reaching the knowledge of Jesus Christ…Who could better than His Mother have an open knowledge of the admirable mysteries of the birth and childhood of Christ, and above all of the mystery of the Incarnation, which is the beginning and the foundation of faith? … Hence nobody ever knew Christ so profoundly as she did, and nobody can ever be more competent as a guide and teacher of the knowledge of Christ.
w2.vatican.va/content/pius-x/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_02021904_ad-diem-illum-laetissimum.html

Peace of Jesus Christ,

Pat

As already stated, I wont read posts with quotes. (Unless the quoter is expert in the field being quoted). This is because the poor humble quote, the blood , sweat and, tears of a wordsworth, is drowning in erroneous spume. Alas.

Back to Glorifying God , as His imperfect sinning creature;
and reading the list of Dogmas , + 101 of the Church.
Seen them, Pat?

 

[patricius79]

He just spouts cherry-picked quotes out of context and attempts to instruct us…
.

Dear Tomyris,

(I would call your “brother” or “sister” but I couldn’t tell for sure if you are male or female when I looked at your profile. Sometimes I guess with people and end up wrong. And others think I’m a female because Patricius reminds them of “Patricia”)

If I’m misinterpreting the quotations from the Magisterium, could you give an example you have in mind?

Peace of Jesus Christ,
your brother,

Pat

 

[patricius79]

He just spouts cherry-picked quotes out of context and attempts to instruct us…
.

Dear Tomyris,

(I would call your “brother” or “sister” but I couldn’t tell for sure if you are male or female when I looked at your profile. Sometimes I guess with people and end up wrong. And others think I’m a female because Patricius reminds them of “Patricia”)

If I’m misinterpreting the quotations from the Magisterium regarding the Mother of God, could you give an example you have in mind?

Peace of Jesus Christ,
your brother,

Pat

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Because Mary is the Mother of God, the Reparatrix of the world, and the Mother of each human person, **I disagree with that claim (that personal devotion to her is not necessary), **

Dear Tomyris,

(I would call your “brother” or “sister” but I couldn’t tell for sure if you are male or female when I looked at your profile. Sometimes I guess with people and end up wrong. And others think I’m a female because Patricius reminds them of “Patricia”)

If I’m misinterpreting the quotations from the Magisterium regarding the Mother of God, could you give an example you have in mind?

Peace of Jesus Christ,
your brother,

Pat

What is bolded above in red is where you are wrong, and have been told so by many others, many times.

IT IS NOT REQUIRED THAT ANYONE HAVE ANY TYPE OF PERSONAL DEVOTION TO MARY. PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION.

That is not to say that practicing a special devotion to her is not a good thing, it just is NOT REQUIRED. no matter what you think, no matter how many quotes from Saints & Popes you post- YOU ARE STILL WRONG!!

Please, talk to your priest.

 

[patricius79]

What is bolded above in red is where you are wrong, and have been told so by many others, many times.

IT IS NOT REQUIRED THAT ANYONE HAVE ANY TYPE OF PERSONAL DEVOTION TO MARY. PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION.

That is not to say that practicing a special devotion to her is not a good thing, it just is NOT REQUIRED. no matter what you think, no matter how many quotes from Saints & Popes you post- YOU ARE STILL WRONG!!

Please, talk to your priest.

Dear Oneofthewomen,

I’m glad we agree that personal devotion to Mary is a good thing. As far as your belief that devotion to our Blessed Mother is not required, how would you interpret this statement from Pope St. Pius 10th?:

15. These principles laid down, and to return to our design, who will not see that we have with good reason claimed for Mary that - as the constant companion of Jesus from the house at Nazareth to the height of Calvary, as beyond all others initiated to the secrets of his Heart, and as the distributor, by right of her Motherhood, of the treasures of His merits, - she is, for all these reasons, a most sure and efficacious assistance to us for arriving at the knowledge and love of Jesus Christ. Those, alas! furnish us by their conduct with a peremptory proof of it, who seduced by the wiles of the demon or deceived by false doctrines think they can do without the help of the Virgin. Hapless are they who neglect Mary under pretext of the honor to be paid to Jesus Christ! As if the Child could be found elsewhere than with the Mother!
w2.vatican.va/content/pius-x/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_02021904_ad-diem-illum-laetissimum.html

Peace of Jesus Christ,

Pat

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Dear Oneofthewomen,

I’m glad we agree that personal devotion to Mary is a good thing. As far as your belief that devotion to our Blessed Mother is not required, how would you interpret this statement from Pope St. Pius 10th?:

15. These principles laid down, and to return to our design, who will not see that we have with good reason claimed for Mary that - as the constant companion of Jesus from the house at Nazareth to the height of Calvary, as beyond all others initiated to the secrets of his Heart, and as the distributor, by right of her Motherhood, of the treasures of His merits, - she is, for all these reasons, a most sure and efficacious assistance to us for arriving at the knowledge and love of Jesus Christ. Those, alas! furnish us by their conduct with a peremptory proof of it, who seduced by the wiles of the demon or deceived by false doctrines think they can do without the help of the Virgin. Hapless are they who neglect Mary under pretext of the honor to be paid to Jesus Christ! As if the Child could be found elsewhere than with the Mother!
w2.vatican.va/content/pius-x/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_02021904_ad-diem-illum-laetissimum.html

Peace of Jesus Christ,

Pat

Do you know what the Encyclical you are quoting from is about?
Have you read the Vatican II documents regarding Mary?
Do you understand how to read papal documents?
You cannot just cherry pick quotes that you seem to think prove your point,
You must read the documents in the light of to whom they are written, and what they are addressing.

Unless and until you are willing to learn, nothing you say is going to matter.
What you need to do is stop spreading false information based on your “understanding”.
Your understanding is deeply flawed. Please get help from someone who has the knowledge you are so sorely lacking.

 

[pianistclare]

Dear Oneofthewomen,

I’m glad we agree that personal devotion to Mary is a good thing. As far as your belief that devotion to our Blessed Mother is not required, how would you interpret this statement from Pope St. Pius 10th?:

15. These principles laid down, and to return to our design, who will not see that we have with good reason claimed for Mary that - as the constant companion of Jesus from the house at Nazareth to the height of Calvary, as beyond all others initiated to the secrets of his Heart, and as the distributor, by right of her Motherhood, of the treasures of His merits, - she is, for all these reasons, a most sure and efficacious assistance to us for arriving at the knowledge and love of Jesus Christ. Those, alas! furnish us by their conduct with a peremptory proof of it, who seduced by the wiles of the demon or deceived by false doctrines think they can do without the help of the Virgin. Hapless are they who neglect Mary under pretext of the honor to be paid to Jesus Christ! As if the Child could be found elsewhere than with the Mother!
w2.vatican.va/content/pius-x/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_02021904_ad-diem-illum-laetissimum.html

Peace of Jesus Christ,

Pat

**You know, this circular argument of your is extremely annoying. **
Stop acting and posting like people are in agreement with you.
THEY ARE NOT.
You are spreading and promoting false information under the premise of “a dead Pope said this eons ago, so MY PERSONAL OPINION must be correct.”

The Pope didn’t write that so you could use his quote to support your arguments.
You’ve had Master Catechists, Theology degreed people, LEM’s, Deacons, and a priest, Seminary Professor in Mariology and theologian (from ROME no less!!!) tell you that you are wrong.

Stop it.
If you love Our Lady as you so vehemently & repeatedly profess, STOP IT.

This kind of nonsense ***does not honor her, nor does it honor her beloved Son. ***

 

[Tomyris]

People, you are getting upset.

There is a wise old internet admonition: Do Not Feed the Troll.

I am no longer going to attempt to interact with him. He is on my ignore list. I suggest you do the same.

I may check this thread from time to time to see if he is abusing others, which is what this amounts to. Trolls like to upset people and waste their time. Attempts at communication will be met with the same answer. He has been answered repeatedly and comes back with the same stuff.

He needs to see his priest, if he has one. He may not, as he may have decided his old priest is not adhering to his personally hand-crafted Mary-centered Magisterium and so can be disregarded. I don’t think such a priest exists.

 

[pianistclare]

People, you are getting upset.

There is a wise old internet admonition: Do Not Feed the Troll.

I am no longer going to attempt to interact with him. He is on my ignore list. I suggest you do the same.

I may check this thread from time to time to see if he is abusing others, which is what this amounts to. Trolls like to upset people and waste their time. Attempts at communication will be met with the same answer. He has been answered repeatedly and comes back with the same stuff.

He needs to see his priest, if he has one. He may not, as he may have decided his old priest is not adhering to his personally hand-crafted Mary-centered Magisterium and so can be disregarded. I don’t think such a priest exists.

 

[patricius79]

Dear Deacon Jeff ((name removed by moderator)),

I believe the quotations I’ve provided are from Encylicals or Apostolic Constitutions of the Popes.

You are saying that that documents and nothing in them are expressions of the teaching authority (Magisterium) of the Church?

I’m glad if you will respectfully show me, using the Catechism or other clear evidence, how I am confused.

As it is, I take very seriously what Popes like Pope St. Pius 10th and Pope St. John Paul II teach about the Mother of God, our Mother.

For example, when Pope St. Pius 9th says in his Apostolic Constitution on the Immaculate Conception, that Mary “approaches as near to God as is possible for a created being”, and other Popes also reiterate the incomparable union between the Coredemptrix and the Trinity… I don’t see how we could freely, knowingly neglect a loving relationship with our Mother and still be in union with her Divine Son.

And if people won’t answer my questions about how they interpret such documents, I tend to think that we all need to pray more deeply for understanding of the mystery of our Mother, the Mother of God.

Peace of Jesus Christ,

Pat

 

[pianistclare]

Dear Deacon Jeff ((name removed by moderator)),

I believe the quotations I’ve provided are from Encylicals or Apostolic Constitutions of the Popes.

You are saying that that documents and nothing in them are expressions of the teaching authority (Magisterium) of the Church?

I’m glad if you will respectfully show me, using the Catechism or other clear evidence, how I am confused.

As it is, I take very seriously what Popes like Pope St. Pius 10th and Pope St. John Paul II teach about the Mother of God, our Mother.

For example, when Pope St. Pius 9th says in his Apostolic Constitution on the Immaculate Conception, that Mary “approaches as near to God as is possible for a created being”, and other Popes also reiterate the incomparable union between the Coredemptrix and the Trinity… I don’t see how we could freely, knowingly neglect a loving relationship with our Mother and still be in union with her Divine Son.

And if people won’t answer my questions about how they interpret such documents, I tend to think that we all need to pray more deeply for understanding of the mystery of our Mother, the Mother of God.

Peace of Jesus Christ,

Pat

You’re not asking.
You’re TELLING.

I’m out.

 

[patricius79]

Do you know what the Encyclical you are quoting from is about?
Have you read the Vatican II documents regarding Mary?
Do you understand how to read papal documents?
You cannot just cherry pick quotes that you seem to think prove your point,
You must read the documents in the light of to whom they are written, and what they are addressing.

Unless and until you are willing to learn, nothing you say is going to matter.
What you need to do is stop spreading false information based on your “understanding”.
Your understanding is deeply flawed. Please get help from someone who has the knowledge you are so sorely lacking.

Dear Oneofthewomen,

I don’t think we want to go too fast or sound like we’re interrogating with too many questions/accusations. I’m just doing my best as a simple, uneducated Catholic, to learn what I can.

If I’m taking something out of context, maybe you could give an example of where I’m going into a mistake.

I think it’s good to answer one another’s questions and respectfully share our ideas so as to help one another understand the mystery of the New Adam and the New Eve better.

I had asked how you interpret the statement of Pope St… Pius the 10th about how it is false doctrine to believe one can do without the help of Mary, and who thus neglect devotion to her.

I didn’t see an answer. Would you be able to answer that question?

In answer to your questions, yes, I know what Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum is about: the Immaculate Conception.

In this text, Pope St. Pius 10th emphasizes the union of Christ and Mary.:

" But, since Divine Providence has been pleased that we should have the Man-God through Mary, who conceived Him by the Holy Ghost and bore Him in her breast, it only remains for us to receive Christ from the hands of Mary."
w2.vatican.va/content/pius-x/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_02021904_ad-diem-illum-laetissimum.html

He refers to Mary, the Immaculate Conception, as the Reparatrix of the lost world, saying that she is also the Dispensatrix of all graces.

Likewise Vatican II calls Mary “the cause of our salvation” and states that “devotion to Mary is intrinsic to Christian worship”.

Peace of Jesus Christ,

Pat

 

[James248]

Dear Oneofthewomen,

I don’t think we want to go too fast or sound like we’re interrogating with too many questions/accusations. I’m just doing my best as a simple, uneducated Catholic, to learn what I can.

If I’m taking something out of context, maybe you could give an example of where I’m going into a mistake.

I think it’s good to answer one another’s questions and respectfully share our ideas so as to help one another understand the mystery of the New Adam and the New Eve better.

I had asked how you interpret the statement of Pope St… Pius the 10th about how it is false doctrine to believe one can do without the help of Mary, and who thus neglect devotion to her.

I didn’t see an answer. Would you be able to answer that question?

In answer to your questions, yes, I know what Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum is about: the Immaculate Conception.

In this text, Pope St. Pius 10th emphasizes the union of Christ and Mary.:

" But, since Divine Providence has been pleased that we should have the Man-God through Mary, who conceived Him by the Holy Ghost and bore Him in her breast, it only remains for us to receive Christ from the hands of Mary."
w2.vatican.va/content/pius-x/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_02021904_ad-diem-illum-laetissimum.html

He refers to Mary, the Immaculate Conception, as the Reparatrix of the lost world, saying that she is also the Dispensatrix of all graces.

Likewise Vatican II calls Mary “the cause of our salvation” and states that “devotion to Mary is intrinsic to Christian worship”.

Peace of Jesus Christ,

Pat

If you are truly doing your best to understand you would have PMd Father Ruggero 5 threads ago. False humility is a sin.