How many deny Jesus Christ in the Eucharist?

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Hey koshalkoj

ist ja cool, dass du Deutsch kannst. Das freut mich jetzt echt! šŸ™‚

Naja, ich weiss sehr wohl was der Katchismus ist, aber im Religionsunterricht haben wir ihn nie behandelt, ehrlich.

Wir haben uns Ć¼ber ethische Fragen unterhalten wie Abtreibung, Selbstmord etc. und wie die katholische Kirche steht - aber wirklich den Katechismus behandelt haben wir nie, ehrlich.

Weiters haben wir Kirchengeschichte behandelt (ich liebte das! šŸ™‚ Ich war immer schon ein Fan von Geschichte!)

Und uns Ć¼ber die Bible unterhalten, besonders in der Volksschule.

WĆ¼rdest du bitte so nett sein, das fĆ¼r mich zusammenfassend fĆ¼r die anderen zu Ć¼bersetzen, denn ich nehme mal an, dass nur wir beide Deutsch kƶnnen in diesem Boardā€¦?

Ich habe leider keine Zeit jetztā€¦

Danke.

Liebe GrĆ¼ĆŸe,
Esdra
Iā€™ll post in English so that everyone can understand šŸ˜‰
It surprises me that you have never read the catechism. I grew up in northern Germany, where almost everyone is Lutheran and aside from being taught the Bible, we also learned about the reformation in school as well as in confirmation classes. So I just assumed that German-speaking Catholic youths would read the catechism. If not in school, then at least in their confirmation classesā€¦
 
I tell you one thing: Guess when I was last in a Catholic mass?
Easter 2010!! Together with my family (yes, all of them, rinnie.)
I mean it was nice. Nothing against it. BUT, thatā€™s not my Church.
And guess what striked me most? Noone payed attention during lesson or gospel reading. Neither when the priest preached. All were sitting in their pew and I had the feeling they would SLEEP.
I have often asked Dad what was the gospel today and what did the priest preach? He couldnā€™t answer me. He said he was meditating during mass, always!
I was looking for a **living **service. Where there are people who are happy because Jesus saved them and where you can feel this happiness. And this I got to know in the Baptist Church and the Pentecostal Church!
You did tell me that about Easter I just remembered. šŸ˜ƒ Thats okay. Give it time thats all. But I will say you are right some Priests are kinda (boring:eek:)

But see to me I kinda need that quiet time. I really do listen to the scripture and concentrate on it. And you are also right we do take for granted the gospel readings. I donā€™t know why?

I guess Love, Church is only what you make it to be. To me its my one on one time with God, I could not tell you who even sat beside me usually. I am there to spend my hour alone in silence praying the rosary and waiting for that special moment to feel God enter.

I canā€™t say everyone is Happy all the time, I guess to be honest I see alot that are suffering now that I think about it. Many are unhappy. Thats why I think alot come back to the CC sometimes. They are in so much pain and need they come to God for confort. I think when they see him on the cross they know he feels their pain, and understands it.

You know that is the biggest difference I think in the Churchā€™s. I myself know that when I am in pain, and in need the Church is where I run. I know God is waiting for me.

Now that I think about it I donā€™t think people are really sleeping at all. Oh I agree it looks that way. But what I think 90% are doing are unloading thier burdens on Christ. Asking for his help. Not holding anything back. And when they walk out they left alot of pain, anger, hate and saddness behind.

You know when my brother died I never saw my Mom or Dad so sad. They just sat in Church for hours. Dad went every single day as usual. He just sat in front of the Blessed Mother and cried. I will never forget my Mama. They were having a mass for Joey and after everyone left they just sat there . Then all of a sudden she cried out and said how Blessed Mother how did you give up your son help me Mother help me. I am not that strong. I canā€™t take another minute. I brought him here in my arms as a baby blessed Mother. He was baptised here, he had his communion here, he was confirmed he. And now he was buried here. Forgive me but Joey was a dead ringer for Jesus when he died. Hair and all. Age was so close also. He looked so much like the pictures we see of Jesus.

Well Papa is with Joey now, Joeys been gone for 7 years Pappa 2. And Mamma still is in the same Church, it took time and alot of God, But shes okay. She has a huge statue of the Blessed Mother in front of her house. She saw now what the Blessed Mother taught her With God all things are possible.

Now thats the Catholic Church and the Catholic Faith.

P.S never meant to compare Joey to Christ. (only in looks)šŸ˜ƒ

Sorry for getting off topic. I did it again.
 
Iā€™ll post in English so that everyone can understand šŸ˜‰
It surprises me that you have never read the catechism. I grew up in northern Germany, where almost everyone is Lutheran and aside from being taught the Bible, we also learned about the reformation in school as well as in confirmation classes. So I just assumed that German-speaking Catholic youths would read the catechism. If not in school, then at least in their confirmation classesā€¦
Hi

you canā€™t believe how glad I am that there is one more native speaker of German! (:

Well I neither read the Catechism in confirmation classā€¦ We had confirmation prepartion by 2 parents of my class. I mean they told us what happens during mass and so on, but noone spoke a word about the Catechismā€¦

Oh yes, we also learned in RI about the Reformation (actually that belongs to the History of the Church). - I really liked RI in schoolā€¦

Hey, koshakoj, should I translate my German post so that the others also understand? Or would you be so kind to summarize my German Post in English?

Thank you.
Esdra
 
You did tell me that about Easter I just remembered. šŸ˜ƒ Thats okay. Give it time thats all. But I will say you are right some Priests are kinda (boring:eek:)

But see to me I kinda need that quiet time. I really do listen to the scripture and concentrate on it. And you are also right we do take for granted the gospel readings. I donā€™t know why?

ā€¦
*I have also experienced a priest who was boring. The thing is we go to Mass for the Eucharist mainly - it is the source and summit of our Catholic faith.

There is the liturgy of the word with all the readings and the psalm - each reading is connected - first the OT and then the NT. It gives one something on which to reflect. I know Protestants go for the preaching at their services. A good homily is wonderful but it is not what we go to Mass for.

It can be a dangerous thing to focus too much on the preacher and his preaching because then one goes for that and God is secondary. Think about that.

God love you all
Cinette:)
 
I tell you one thing: Guess when I was last in a Catholic mass?
Easter 2010!! Together with my family (yes, all of them, rinnie.)
I mean it was nice. Nothing against it. BUT, thatā€™s not my Church.
And guess what striked me most? Noone payed attention during lesson or gospel reading. Neither when the priest preached. All were sitting in their pew and I had the feeling they would SLEEP.
I have often asked Dad what was the gospel today and what did the priest preach? He couldnā€™t answer me. He said he was meditating during mass, always!
I was looking for a **living **service. Where there are people who are happy because Jesus saved them and where you can feel this happiness. And this I got to know in the Baptist Church and the Pentecostal Church!
Actually,
since my searching time when I already called myself the first time ā€œnondenominated Christianā€ I have gone to mass every Christmas, Easter and even Pentecost and also on some other holy days together with the whole family. I even went there when I (inofficially - I still AM Catholic on the paper!) became a Baptist.
I never felt anything there you described, rinnie.
AND as long as my parents arenā€™t Baptists too, (and as far as I know that will NEVER be the case - because they consider it as a sect!) I will continue going with them there. This is a matter of tradition. So, if the RCC is really Christā€™s Church, he will have a lot of chances to show me that! šŸ˜‰

B.w.,
E.
 
*I have also experienced a priest who was boring. The thing is we go to Mass for the Eucharist mainly - it is the source and summit of our Catholic faith.

There is the liturgy of the word with all the readings and the psalm - each reading is connected - first the OT and then the NT. It gives one something on which to reflect. I know Protestants go for the preaching at their services. A good homily is wonderful but it is not what we go to Mass for.

It can be a dangerous thing to focus too much on the preacher and his preaching because then one goes for that and God is secondary. Think about that.

God love you all
Cinette:)
I know, Cinette, I know. I know, why Catholics go to the Holy Massā€¦
Well, I found out, after a long study of the Holy Scripture, that it is more important to worship our Lord and thank him (cf. James 5,13) for what He has done. I love worship. Actually, we then also have time to bring everything to our Lord, either aload or in silence!
Then the gospel is read and we have a pastor, or an elder, or anyone else (Priesthood for all!) who will say something about it - preach. I love preaches. I have heard so great preaches yet, really!
Then the service is ended (it lasts approxmatily 1 and a half hour!) and we will sit together and talk, having a coffee and a cake or simply biscuits - simply having communion (Wow, just had a look in my Dictionary GER-EN to look up ā€œGemeinschaft habenā€ - and it is ā€œhaving communionā€! Is that a sign? I am really astonished now!)
This is what I like about ā€œmy new faithā€. I never had that in the RCC - and now I know that I was looking for exactly that. It is the ā€œitā€ I have often stated in some of my posts.

Best wishes,
Esdra
 
Esdra;6638311:
*Dear Esdra - It is so obvious that you know very little about the Catholic Church. I suppose if I asked you 10 basic questions about the Church you would probably not be able to answer them correctly. From the things you say I have little doubt about this.

You are happy in your Baptist church. You love God. Well, that is good.

God bless all
Cinette:)*
Hi Cinette,

Well, could be that I (already) forgot much of the Catholic faith, since I am already for 8 years not a ā€œreal Catholicā€ anymore. By the way, I was also not that strictly risen as a Catholic. My parents were more liberal Catholic, I guess. So this could be also a reason, why I wasnā€™t catechized very well, as you keep saying (which is definetely true!).

But, you know what? Letā€™s try it! Write me via PM 10 questions only a Catholic can answer. See, if I could answer them. I promise, I wonā€™t cheat. I will print it out and answer them in my room and then send the answers back to you. Right?
Please, I am wondering myself, how much I would still know about the RCC.

Oh yes, and I AM very happy in my Baptist Community. It is what I was looking for for soooo long (imagine 8 years!)

B.w.,
E.
 
Hey, koshakoj, should I translate my German post so that the others also understand? Or would you be so kind to summarize my German Post in English?

Thank you.
Esdra
Well, I guess the only things that I didnā€™t translate were the fact that, aside from being taught the scriptures, you were taught about the Churchā€™s stance on issues like abortion, suicide, and the like as well as Church history.
I still think that itā€™s weird that they didnā€™t teach out of the catechism. I know the kids in my parish get taught the catechism and of course we are using it at my RCIA classes.

I have been to a few Baptist churches myself (grape juice and all šŸ˜› ), and I have never felt the Lordā€™s presence like I do at Mass. The Baptist churches I went to mainly consisted of the preacher either preaching about fire and brimstone or which candidate we should vote for in the next election.

A lot of my husbandā€™s family is Baptist and while they often claim to take the Bible literally (ā€œWhen it says God made the earth in six days, then it means six 24-hour periods!ā€), they chose to completely ignore Jesusā€™ own words when He says ā€œThis is MY bodyā€ and say that it is meant to be taken symbolically. But I think this has already been discussed on these boards many times. Still, I have yet to see an answer that truly satisfies me.
 
Well, I guess the only things that I didnā€™t translate were the fact that, aside from being taught the scriptures, you were taught about the Churchā€™s stance on issues like abortion, suicide, and the like as well as Church history.
I still think that itā€™s weird that they didnā€™t teach out of the catechism. I know the kids in my parish get taught the catechism and of course we are using it at my RCIA classes.

I have been to a few Baptist churches myself (grape juice and all šŸ˜› ), and I have never felt the Lordā€™s presence like I do at Mass. The Baptist churches I went to mainly consisted of the preacher either preaching about fire and brimstone or which candidate we should vote for in the next election.

A lot of my husbandā€™s family is Baptist and while they often claim to take the Bible literally (ā€œWhen it says God made the earth in six days, then it means six 24-hour periods!ā€), they chose to completely ignore Jesusā€™ own words when He says ā€œThis is MY bodyā€ and say that it is meant to be taken symbolically. But I think this has already been discussed on these boards many times. Still, I have yet to see an answer that truly satisfies me.
Hey, I know the thing with the grape juice. šŸ˜‰ I also wonder why the donā€™t use wineā€¦ But anyway!

I have been attending a Baptist regularly every Sunday since Summer 2009 - and our preacher never preached about fire and brimstone, or which candidate we should vote - BUT about a bible verse. So he did a kind of homilie, to use the Catholic Word for that.

I have always loved them so far - the preaches.
And as I have written before - I also love worship very much - with many modern songs (in english and in German!)

Esdra
 
About the Baptists
Code:
I'm not a Baptist, but have some relatives who are. And over the years I have become rather well-acquainted with them.

To begin with, there are all kinds of Baptists. The ABC - American Baptist Convention  (formerly the Northern Baptist Convention; they split over slavery before the Civil War) - is a rather moderate group all in all. For example, it includes the famous Riverside Church in Manhattan. 

 Then there is the Southern Baptist Convention, with perhaps 15,000,000 members, the largest Protestant group in the USA. (But remember that you have to at least double most Protestant numbers because they don't usually include young children and those who are constitutents. For example, a church may lose 15 members by death in a year but the pastor may have 30-40 funerals. Etc.)  The SBC is more conservative, often even fundamentalist, though it has a wide variety of congregations. And remember that each congregation is independent ultimately - calls its pastor, runs its own parish, etc. 

  Beyond that there are all sorts of other Baptist groups and totally unaffiliated Baptist congregations. 

 Some statisticians suggest that there may be as many as 50-60 million Baptists in the USA.  This is about the same number as Catholics. 

  It is true that some Baptist clergy get into politics, just as some Catholic clergy get into politics. For example, at the mass I attended a few weeks ago an insert was enclosed in the bulletin asking parishioners to contact their state representatives to protest a bill in the legislature that would extend the amount of time for people to bring suit against the church for sexual molestation by priests. Baptist ministers may sometimes preach against abortion, as some Catholic priests do. They may denounce the courts when they try to knock out religion from public life, etc.

  But historically the Baptists, unlike traditional Catholicism, was strongly opposed to any church/state connection. Rogers Williams founded Rhode Island in large part to get away from Puritan-run Massachusetts about 350 years ago. Catholicism often has sought preference in government. For example, under Franco, Spain promoted Catholicism and virtually banned Protestantism.  In various Catholic-majority countries even today you might a crucifix in public school classrooms, etc. 

  Now, as for grapejuice. Many Protestant churches (Baptists, Methodist, UCC, etc) traditionally were temperance churches and discouraged drinking (and often smoking, too). Moreover, and perhaps more important today, they wanted worshipers to be able to receive communion without any risk to alcoholics. So, grapejuice. A few churches offer both. In the Catholic Church, of course, usually few parishioners take the wine so an alcoholic need not be at risk. 

  One old sort-of-joke re Southern Baptists. What do Southern Baptists do when they meet other Southern Baptists in a liquor store? Pretend they don't see one another.

  Baptists more than most mainline Protestants usually have less liturgy, more vigorous gospel hymns (some we sing in Catholic churches now!), longer sermons, and more Bible exposition. In their church government, they are congregational - that is, congregation controlled.

  I love the Baptists. I love the Catholics. Didn't Christ tell us to love one another? I'm quite convinced that God looks at our hearts and not at our church affiliation.
 
But, you know what? Letā€™s try it! Write me via PM 10 questions only a Catholic can answer. See, if I could answer them. I promise, I wonā€™t cheat.
Why must it be in a PM? I already asked you one question: where in the Mass is Scripture?

If you understand anything about Catholicism, and anything about Scripture, that should not be a difficult question to answer.

Also, hereā€™s another simple one: what is the Immaculate Conception?
 
Oh, I neglected to give attention to African-American Baptists. The Baptist Church is huge among African-Americans. For years they were rivaled by the Methodists, but gradually pulled away. Perhaps 6 million US Blacks are Methodists today, perhaps 15 million or more are Baptists. About 1,000,000 are Catholic, half or so of West Indian background. The leaders of the civil rights movement, of course, was Dr. King, a Black Baptist. Most of his leading colleagues in that battle were Baptist and Methodist ministers. The Baptists also have made strides within the Hispanic community, though the Pentecostalists are the largest Latino Protestant group. Iā€™ve read that in Brazil, for example, more Protestants (Pentecostalists mainly) are in church Sunday than Catholics -and Brazil is the largest Catholic country in the world.
 
I tell you one thing: Guess when I was last in a Catholic mass?
Easter 2010!! Together with my family (yes, all of them, rinnie.)
I mean it was nice. Nothing against it. BUT, thatā€™s not my Church.
And guess what striked me most? Noone payed attention during lesson or gospel reading. Neither when the priest preached. All were sitting in their pew and I had the feeling they would SLEEP.
I have often asked Dad what was the gospel today and what did the priest preach? He couldnā€™t answer me. He said he was meditating during mass, always!
I was looking for a **living **service. Where there are people who are happy because Jesus saved them and where you can feel this happiness. And this I got to know in the Baptist Church and the Pentecostal Church!
It sounds like your Dad may be a cradle Catholic who goes to Mass more out of habit - there are those people in every Church. Obviously you are more spiritually awake than he is and have a hunger for God. Talking about a living service, I guess you mean a lively service. Have you not noticed that the entire Mass is bible based from the Entrance Antiphon, the prayers - Holy Holy Holy, Lamb of Godā€¦ the Alleluia, the readings, the communion antiphon etc etc etc. Does your Dad have a Missel? Do you know why you cross your self with holy water, genuflect - do you know what that little red light near the tabernacle is for? Many converts have said that when they attended Mass for the first time they were astounded how bible based the Mass is. It is the bible come alive!

With the Easter services one feels intensely moved by the Death and Ressurection of Jesus - especially on Easter Sunday - Alleluia the Lord is Risen - the choir bursts into song and the people too. My Parish in South Africa is beautiful and one feels one is in heaven! Have you ever been to the Easter Vigil and heard the Exultat?

Have you heard of EWTN?

Oh man Esdra you havenā€™t lived if you have never experienced these things.

God bless all
Cinette:)*
 
Oh, I neglected to give attention to African-American Baptists. The Baptist Church is huge among African-Americans. For years they were rivaled by the Methodists, but gradually pulled away. Perhaps 6 million US Blacks are Methodists today, perhaps 15 million or more are Baptists. About 1,000,000 are Catholic, half or so of West Indian background. The leaders of the civil rights movement, of course, was Dr. King, a Black Baptist. Most of his leading colleagues in that battle were Baptist and Methodist ministers. The Baptists also have made strides within the Hispanic community, though the Pentecostalists are the largest Latino Protestant group. Iā€™ve read that in Brazil, for example, more Protestants (Pentecostalists mainly) are in church Sunday than Catholics -and Brazil is the largest Catholic country in the world.
*Did you know that the Catholic Charismatic Renewal is the largest Charismatic Movement in the world? They are close to the Pentacostals which is great - their expression of Praise and Worship is lively, clapping hands, talking in tongues, Life in the Spirit Seminars, etc etc. I have done about 10 Life in the Spirit Seminars. Although I am not fully Charismatic - I speak in tongues but donā€™t clap and all that - however I attribute all the years I spent going to the Charismatics for lighting a fire inside me which brought me closer to the Lord and to the Mass. I fully support the Charismatics. They are wonderful.

As for the Negro Spirituals - they are marvellous and we sing a few in the Catholic Church.

Alleluia!
Cinette:)*
 
Why must it be in a PM? I already asked you one question: where in the Mass is Scripture?

If you understand anything about Catholicism, and anything about Scripture, that should not be a difficult question to answer.

Also, hereā€™s another simple one: what is the Immaculate Conception?
Actually I donā€™t really get your first question. But I think you mean when is read out of the Holy Bible during mass. Out of the Holy Bible is read in the lesson and then in the gosple, normally followed by a preach. Nowadays more concerned to the gospel. In former times more ā€œmoral-preachesā€.
Does this answer your question?

You know why these Questions are hard to answer for me? Because they are in English. As I am a German native Speaker I donā€™t know the English Catholic terminology. šŸ˜‰
But know since I have looked up what the I.C. is I can answer you:

It means that the Holy Mother Mary bore Jesus without ever having Sex before and without sin - without the original Sin to be accurate.
I think this is the answer. I hope I forumlated it correctly.

B.w.,
E.
 
It sounds like your Dad may be a cradle Catholic who goes to Mass more out of habit - there are those people in every Church. Obviously you are more spiritually awake than he is and have a hunger for God. Talking about a living service, I guess you mean a lively service. Have you not noticed that the entire Mass is bible based from the Entrance Antiphon, the prayers - Holy Holy Holy, Lamb of Godā€¦ the Alleluia, the readings, the communion antiphon etc etc etc. Does your Dad have a Missel? Do you know why you cross your self with holy water, genuflect - do you know what that little red light near the tabernacle is for? Many converts have said that when they attended Mass for the first time they were astounded how bible based the Mass is. It is the bible come alive!

With the Easter services one feels intensely moved by the Death and Ressurection of Jesus - especially on Easter Sunday - Alleluia the Lord is Risen - the choir bursts into song and the people too. My Parish in South Africa is beautiful and one feels one is in heaven! Have you ever been to the Easter Vigil and heard the Exultat?

Have you heard of EWTN?

Oh man Esdra you havenā€™t lived if you have never experienced these things.

God bless all
Cinette:)*
Dear cinette,

most of your questions you stated here I have already answered in your PM.
I know what you are talking about. I have been VERY often at mass on Easter Sunday.
I know all that, but it never striced me that much than worships and services in Pentecostal Churches and my Baptist Church. It is just like that - I donā€™t know why!
And yes, my dad has a missal (at least he nearly became a Catholic priest. But didnā€™t because he was not sure about the celibacy and broke down psychologically seenā€¦ and so became a teacher instead.)

Esdra
 
Hi

thatā€™s a very good post. Just as the one before.
I like the idea of the Big Tent.
Jesus would like it. He prays in John 17 exactly for that (most important is here Verse 11!)
But I must tell you, Roy5, this thought is unfortunately an Utopia. The problem is the RCC and even worse, the Orthodox Church. They are far too conservative and wonā€™t make a step towards the Protestants so that we could all leave under your Big Tent.
Believe me, I know what I am talking about. I was long enough a Catholicā€¦

B. w.
E.
Hi Esdra,

Is the goal really just so that we can all live in this big tent?

While I think Christian unity is a beautiful dream, I donā€™t think that will happen. The only way it will happen is everyone became Catholic and somehow I donā€™t see that happening (but then again, nothing is impossible to God)

Let me put this question to you: When you meet non Christians who permit all sorts of things that you (even with you liberal sort "Christianity) would baulk at, would you compromise what you believe to be true just so you can be lovey, dovey with them?

It is one thing to respect that some people are at a certain stage in their journey of faith, it is another to say that all beliefs are equal.

The Catholic Church has the fullness of truth. Why would we abandon that fullness of truth to accommodate you. Christianity is not about accommodating people in their foolhardy desire to be god. It is about following Christ.

And yes, protestantism is in a way a deification of the self. Why? Because in the end, it is you who decide what you will believe, not Christ. So much for hating the magisterium of the Catholic Church which of course you will, because it is in opposition to the magisterium that is yourself. So really, in your case it is not Christ who rules but that little deity called Esdra.
 
I tell you one thing: Guess when I was last in a Catholic mass?
Easter 2010!! Together with my family (yes, all of them, rinnie.)
I mean it was nice. Nothing against it. BUT, thatā€™s not my Church.
And guess what striked me most? Noone payed attention during lesson or gospel reading. Neither when the priest preached. All were sitting in their pew and I had the feeling they would SLEEP.
Sadly, you are right about that one. So many Catholics go through the Mass that way. I think that is because of bad Catechism. So many Catholics are under catechized and have no appreciation for the Liturgy and the sacrament.

However, that said, whether they feel good during Mass or not, the Mass remain the source and summit of the Christian life. Yes, the Christian life, not just the Catholic life. For the redemptive act of Jesus Christ continues in the mass and this is offered not only for the Catholics but for the entire world.
I have often asked Dad what was the gospel today and what did the priest preach? He couldnā€™t answer me. He said he was meditating during mass, always!
I was looking for a **living **service. Where there are people who are happy because Jesus saved them and where you can feel this happiness. And this I got to know in the Baptist Church and the Pentecostal Church!
So really, when you go to the service it is more about you. How you feel, what you get out it, etc. It is about you, you, and you. That is just all hype.

The mass, whether one may feel good or uplifted during the service, remain to be that time in history where God becomes truly present in the bread and wine. That does not happen at your service.

The Baptist service is not how the early Christians celebrated the life, death and ressurection of Christ. The early Christians celebrated it with the Mass. As Scott Hahn said, when you come to mass, you go to heaven, for heaven is where Jesus .
 
Hi Esdra,

Is the goal really just so that we can all live in this big tent?

While I think Christian unity is a beautiful dream, I donā€™t think that will happen. The only way it will happen is everyone became Catholic and somehow I donā€™t see that happening (but then again, nothing is impossible to God)

Let me put this question to you: When you meet non Christians who permit all sorts of things that you (even with you liberal sort "Christianity) would baulk at, would you compromise what you believe to be true just so you can be lovey, dovey with them?

It is one thing to respect that some people are at a certain stage in their journey of faith, it is another to say that all beliefs are equal.

The Catholic Church has the fullness of truth. Why would we abandon that fullness of truth to accommodate you. Christianity is not about accommodating people in their foolhardy desire to be god. It is about following Christ.

And yes, protestantism is in a way a deification of the self. Why? Because in the end, it is you who decide what you will believe, not Christ. So much for hating the magisterium of the Catholic Church which of course you will, because it is in opposition to the magisterium that is yourself. So really, in your case it is not Christ who rules but that little deity called Esdra.
i like the idea of the Big Tent, because we are all united by our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ, our Father, LORD, in Heaven and the Holy Spirit are the same in the Baptist Church, in the Catholic Church and in the Orthodox Church and in every other Church!
We should not only look at what separates us, and I have the feeling that this is mainly done in this Forum!, but what unites us. We are ALL christians!
We believe in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
The Eucumene got that. Believe it or not, there are Eucumenical services between Catholics and Lutherans even here in Austria, which is a traditional Catholic Country.
I think Eucumene could work with very other denominition and the RCC!
Even if for example the Baptists would only pray together with the Catholics.
Eucomene is a matter of compromise: If we do a eucomenical service we may have to do without certain elements which belong normally to our service - or mass.
This doesnā€™t mean we have to ban it entirely - it only means, of both side, making a step to each other so that a certain kind of unity is there during this particular eucumenical service.
This is what the Big Tent, or the Eucumene mean for me.
I agree with you, benedictus, the Big Tent in the sense that there will be only one Christianity in the world is not accomplishable! But the Eucumene is some sort of ā€œBig Tentā€ - and I really appreciate that thought. - Forgetting for one and a half hour what seperates us, but thinking of those things which unite us!

Esdra
 
The Baptist service is not how the early Christians celebrated the life, death and ressurection of Christ. The early Christians celebrated it with the Mass. As Scott Hahn said, when you come to mass, you go to heaven, for heaven is where Jesus .
Yes, I can see, you are a real Catholic.
BUT, one question: How do you know that the Ancient Christians celebrated their service not like the Baptists, or Protestants in general, do, but like the Catholics (or like the various Orthodox Churches.)? - Only because these 2 are older?
I think Catholicism only came into being at about 350 AD when it absorbed the various pagan Cults in the Roman Empireā€¦
I can understand those protestants who say that Catholics are no Christians, but a pagan cult (as I have read somewhere here in this board.)! - I mean I donā€™t think so, but I can understand them.

Esdra
 
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