How many deny Jesus Christ in the Eucharist?

[rev_kevin]

No way Rev Kev that is not what Jesus said. Jesus said Take and eat this is my body, then he took the cup and said this is my blood of the covenant which WILL BE shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins. I tell you from now on I shall NOT drink this FRUIT of the Vine until the day wen I drink it with you NEW in the Kingdom of my Father.

It was no accident that the Last Supper was a Passover meal. Jesus gave the Jewish Passover its definiive meaning. Jesus passing over to his father by his death and Resurrection. THe new Passover is anticipated in the Supper and celebrated in the Supper and celebrated in the Eucharist which fulfillls the Jewish Passover and anticipated he fnal Passover of the CHURCH in the glory of the Kingdom. (CCC1340)

Read Mt. 26:29-29 Again. All was going according to the celebrating of Jewish Passover EXCEPT Mt 26:26-29 Jesus said I will not drink again the fruit of the vine until tat day when I drink it again with you in my Fathers kingdom.

HERE WAS THE THIRD CUP, the cup of the BLESSING. BUt Jesus said the bread and wine were is body, what did he mean?

Blood of the covenant is Ex. 24:8 Again something all the disciples would have understood, the Covenant of God and Israel. Jesus is saying a new covenant will be made IN HIS BLOOD.

Next in the liturgy was singing a hymn of praise and thens hould come the cup of consummation. But Jesus said NO he would not drink wine again. So after the hymn of praise they went out to Mount of Olives. IF you knew the Passover you would be shocked they abandoned Passover before it was FINISHED. For SOME REASON it was not time was it?

Now they all left with him,

Jesus said if possible let this CUP pass from me. He was only showing he had a fully HUMAN NATURE. He felt OUR FEAR. But he also showed us you can be human and still obey God.

Now back to the garden the LAST SUPPER Jesus offered to his Father is accepted in the Garden of Gethsemani, making himself obedient to death.

Now move unti THe Last cup.

Mt 15:33-34 Then read on (they offered Jesus a brand of hyssop (the same herb that was used for spinkling the blood of the passover lamb in Ex. 12:22)

After he drank the vinegar Jesus said IT IS FINISHED. It was the LAST CUP that Jesus swon not to drink UNTIL the TIME had COME. He bowed his head and gave up his Spirit!

Please read John Paull ll Ecclesia de Eucharistia. It is all quite clear.

The Eucharist is what is the source and summit of all evangelization since it is the communion of mankind with Christ and IN HIM with the Father and the HOLY SPRIIT!!

Yes Jesus did say “take it and eat it” but that is only said in Matthew 26:26, “As they were eating, Jesus took a loaf of bread and asked God’s blessing on it. Then he broke it in pieces and gave it to the disciples, saying, Take it and eat it, for this is my body.”

Now in Mark 14:22 says, “As they were eating, Jesus took a loaf of bread and asked God’s blessing on it. The he broke it in pieces and gave it to the disciples, saying, take it, for this is my body.”

Lets look at what Luke has to say, Luke 22:19, “Then he took a loaf of bread; and when he had thanked God for it, he broke it in pieces and gave it to the disciples, saying, this is my body, given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”

Now what does John say about this, Oh O, he don’t.

Now from what I see Matthew is the only one who says “take it and eat it” Mark & Luke only says, "this is my body’ but Luke goes one step farther and says “given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”

Sorry I can’t read Matthew 26:29-29. Do you mean 20-29? What makes you say all was going according to the Jewish Passover Celebration? Is this said at all Jewish Passover celebrations, “The truth is one of you will betray me.” “One of you who is eating with me now will betray me.” Then according to you in Verses 26-29 things don’t go according to the Jewish Passover Celebration.

The bread and wine were symbols of his body and blood. Bread being a symbol of his body that was going to be torn and hung on the cross for our sin. Wine being a symbol of his blood that was going to be shed for all, Poured out to forgive the sins of many and will seal the covenant between God and his people.

Exodus 24:8 Here in this ceremony Moses sprinkled half the blood from the sacrificed animals on the alter to show that the sinner could once again approach God because sonething had died in its place. He sprinkled the other half of the blood on the people to show that the penalty for their sin had been paid and they could be reuniten with God.

 

[Esdra]

Then if they are so true why do you yourself admit that you do not accept all of them. You admitted yourself that you accept the Teaching of the Church that Jesus Christ is indeed alive and well in the real Presence in the Eucharist, and Rev Kev who is the same faith of you claims that your faith rejects the real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

Please have a look what a brother in Christ wrote in another thread about that topic:

…]

It’s not that different with us. Big things, like the Trinity, are essential doctrine, dogma if you will. I would not attend a church I differed with on such. There aren’t many things I put in that category, mainly just what C.S. Lewis called “Mere Christianity”, the things that pretty much all Christians at all times have agreed on.

But the differences between most Protestant denominations are smaller, things I’d put more on the level of traditions, and they’re no big deal to me. I belong to an Assemblies of God church, but if the best church in my neighborhood happened to be Baptist, Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist or Presbyterian, I could work with that. There are, of course, exceptions: i.e., some Presbyterian churches are hardcore Calvinist, and I’d be too different from them on doctrine. But mostly they’d be in my range.

I think this will answer your question pretty well.
We are not saying of us that we are Baptists,Methodists, PRotestants etc. We call ourselves Christians!

Esdra

 

[lgrantmu]

Dear Friends in Christ,
Eyes that refuse to see and ears that refuse to hear -
There is a great danger in allowing ‘ego’ to blind us. If one refuses to see and hear what is so plain - all the evidence in the world will not open the door to the prison one is in. Jesus spoke very plain regarding what we needed for salvation and when the multitudes of followers walked away, Jesus didn’t stop them to say, wait you misunderstand; the Apostles understood, the Early Fathers understood, and the Christians who refused to deny the “Real Presence” understood to their painful death, so to say this belief came later … I would have to say… you don’t truly know the history of the Church…if you have read the Early Fathers… I would suggest reading, studying, and mediating - because you have missed it…

 

[Esdra]

Esdra,

I do not intend to engage here, but what made you come to CAF? I am sorry if I missed the reason why…

Hi Kathleen,

actually I have never written in this board WHY I am actually here…

I have been registered for - uhm - half a year now or so. I came here because I was interested in the Orthodox Canon of the OT. Then I haven’t logged on for about a half year.

Only recently I started writing here again. I am basically interested in contrasting my believe (I was a (undercatechised, as I know now) Catholic. Since Summer 2009 I am a reborn Christian - and attend some kind of Baptist Church (In Austria, Central Europe, the Protestant Churches have entirely different names than in the US!)] to the Catholic one.

Sadly this normally ends up in endless discussions - like it is the case now here in this thread and in “Why do some non-catholics not have baptism for infants?”.

Esdra

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

I am of the opinion that to argue any topic with someone not interested in hearing the answer is pointless. Certainly 58+ pages is too. Wasting ones time with more than two or three responses to someones ridicule ceases to be preaching and becomes personal.

Why are the arguments so insistent that Jesus isn’t in the host? This is the real question. The nominalism that encompasses protestant theology would not be useful in denying a real presence as a God not bound by even contradiction would more likely be in the host as not. It is the Catholic Church that proposes this doctrine that is being denied, the “real presence” is only accidental to this.

Perhaps the correlation between the vehemence of Protestants arguments against this with the atheists vehemence against Christianity are similar. Atheists (Dawkins, Hitchens) say Christianity is ruining society and culture and Protestants seem to think the Catholic doctrine ruins Christianity. There could be a connection here that is deeply spiritual and not at all good.

The Church says that Protestants themselves don’t do violence to Christianity itself, but to the unity of the Church. There is a level of charity here on part of the Catholic Church that cannot be denied, although it may be tried. It is this charity that is the true mark of Christ in the Church.

 

[PRmerger]

I am of the opinion that to argue any topic with someone not interested in hearing the answer is pointless. Certainly 58+ pages is too. Wasting ones time with more than two or three responses to someones ridicule ceases to be preaching and becomes personal.

One must take into consideration that the discussion, while appearing to be between 2 or 3 non-Catholics vs Catholics, is really for the benefit of the many many lurkers who scan the CAFs. Who knows.

Maybe those who are really seeking will find the Truth in the course of this dialogue, even if they post not a single word.

 

[rev_kevin]

The same Jesus who makes us new creatures at Baptism is the same Jesus who changes the bread and wine into His Body and Blood. We appear the same before and after Baptism and the bread and wine appears the same before and after it becomes His Body and Blood. Both are in the Bible you can not believe in one and not the other. The Apostles knew what Jesus truly met by John Chapter 6 and that is why they taught the Real Presence in the Bread and Wine to the early Christians.
Yes you are right the Pope is human like the rest of us and capable of mistakes, but when it comes to Church doctrine we believe that the Pope is infallible because the Pope is guided by the Holy Spirit concerning the doctrine after all Jesus told us He be with us until the end of times. The Pope is not infallible on all things just Church doctrines. If you don’t believe your belief to be true and faithful to Jesus why state them or defend them?

So are you saying that when we are Baptized its the same as Jesus’ presence in the bread and wine? I don’t follow your logic on this one. According to the CC the bread and wine are Jesus so how does being Baptized fit into this. In Baptism we are not saying that the water becomes us like the bread and wine become Jesus. In Baptism nothing changes into something else. Its like saying that this pencil I hold up is a pen but the pencil don’t change into the pen it still looks like a pencil but infact it is a pen. The outward appears to be a pencil but it is now a pen.

We all have the Holy Spirit in us correct? So that would make us infallable when it comes to scripture also because its the same Holy Spirit the Pope has within him. But is the Pope only infallible on the CC doctrines? The Holy Spirit guides all of us not just the Pope or the CC. So with the Holy Spirit as our guide in all things holy, who’s to say that what we are saying about the scriptures and the meaning of them are incorrect? With the Holy
Spirit guiding us couldn’t the way we believe be also correct?

 

[PRmerger]

So are you saying that when we are Baptized its the same as Jesus’ presence in the bread and wine? I don’t follow your logic on this one. According to the CC the bread and wine are Jesus so how does being Baptized fit into this.

Baptism is our betrothal to Jesus. The Eucharist is our consummation with Him.

.

 

[rinnie]

Yes Jesus did say “take it and eat it” but that is only said in Matthew 26:26, “As they were eating, Jesus took a loaf of bread and asked God’s blessing on it. Then he broke it in pieces and gave it to the disciples, saying, Take it and eat it, for this is my body.”

Now in Mark 14:22 says, “As they were eating, Jesus took a loaf of bread and asked God’s blessing on it. The he broke it in pieces and gave it to the disciples, saying, take it, for this is my body.”

Lets look at what Luke has to say, Luke 22:19, “Then he took a loaf of bread; and when he had thanked God for it, he broke it in pieces and gave it to the disciples, saying, this is my body, given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”

Now what does John say about this, Oh O, he don’t.

Now from what I see Matthew is the only one who says “take it and eat it” Mark & Luke only says, "this is my body’ but Luke goes one step farther and says “given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”

Sorry I can’t read Matthew 26:29-29. Do you mean 20-29? What makes you say all was going according to the Jewish Passover Celebration? Is this said at all Jewish Passover celebrations, “The truth is one of you will betray me.” “One of you who is eating with me now will betray me.” Then according to you in Verses 26-29 things don’t go according to the Jewish Passover Celebration.

The bread and wine were symbols of his body and blood. Bread being a symbol of his body that was going to be torn and hung on the cross for our sin. Wine being a symbol of his blood that was going to be shed for all, Poured out to forgive the sins of many and will seal the covenant between God and his people.

Exodus 24:8 Here in this ceremony Moses sprinkled half the blood from the sacrificed animals on the alter to show that the sinner could once again approach God because sonething had died in its place. He sprinkled the other half of the blood on the people to show that the penalty for their sin had been paid and they could be reuniten with God.

Um Kev what’s your point. You just admitted YES Jesus said it in Luke. HE also said it it Mark. 14:22 Take it THIS IS MY Body (Now Rev Kev he said Take this, what do you think they were to do with it Kev? BUt if you are not sure read the next line He gave them the cup and they ALL DRANK from it. SO that should give you a pretty good clue that yes, once again they ate and drank.

I said according to Jewish tradition Passover is celebrated with 4 cups.

Matt 26:26-29 Here was the 3rd cup, the cup of blessing But Jesus said that the bread and wine were his body did he not? I told you the Blood of the covenant was a quotation form Exodus 24:8 which the disciples would have recognized. Jesus is introducing a NEW Covenant one that will be ratified by his OWN BLOOD.

Next come the singing hymn of praise and then SHOULD come the cup of consummation. But it never happened did it? Red psalms 114-118 The Great Hallel were sung when passover ended. It is the most IMPORTANT part and they abandoned thier Passover before it was finished.

Why Kevin did that happen, why did Jesus not drink from the last cup. SImple and here is why. He still had ONE cup to drink and it was the Cup OF Consummation. The Cup of the New Covenant, WHich Jesus anticipated when he offered HIMSELF at the Last supper. The same New covenant that you reject.

Bread and Wine is not what saved us, It was the flesh of Jesus Christ and the Blood of Jesus CHrist that saved us. It is the Body and Blood of Christ that his Father accepted in the agony in the garden that saved us. I am sorry his body and blood is no simple. He said this is my Body and this is my Blood and he meant it.

When he drank the last cup the time had come just as Jesus promised. At that moment the curtain of the temple that physically separated the People form God was torn in 2. At the moment it was also the death of Jesus. It was the outer curtain then the tearing also prefigured the end of the world of the OC, the outer curtain was decorated with pictures representing the whole creation.

Please read Ex. 24 again Rev. Jesus became the Passover Lamb. That is why we call him the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

This is so strange. But tommorow is Pentecost Sunday. Lent is now comming to a close. Jesus Christ is indeed the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

The Church now continues with the mission of Christ. As the Father sent me even so I send you.

The Euchatist Sacrifice that takes place in sacramental communion.

You are my Friends (Jn 15:14)
Indeed it is because of him we have eternal life, He who eats me will live because of me John 6:57) (JN 15:4) Abide in me and I in you. Forgive me Rev Kev I cannot see how you can reject those words or get around the word of Christ and say it is not his bread and blood sent down from heaven as Jesus states so clear in John 58. And say no it is not the bread sent down from heaven it is just a symbol. I cannot see how you can continue to reject these words. I will continue to pray for you that you can accept all of the teachings of our dear Lord.

 

[lgrantmu]

May Jesus be praised!

“To fall in love with God is the greatest of all romances; to seek Him, the greatest adventure; to find Him, the greatest human achievement.”
St. Augustine

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

So are you saying that when we are Baptized its the same as Jesus’ presence in the bread and wine? I don’t follow your logic on this one. According to the CC the bread and wine are Jesus so how does being Baptized fit into this. In Baptism we are not saying that the water becomes us like the bread and wine become Jesus. In Baptism nothing changes into something else. Its like saying that this pencil I hold up is a pen but the pencil don’t change into the pen it still looks like a pencil but infact it is a pen. The outward appears to be a pencil but it is now a pen.

[SIGN]We all have the Holy Spirit in us correct[/SIGN]? So that would make us infallable when it comes to scripture also because its the same Holy Spirit the Pope has within him. But is the Pope only infallible on the CC doctrines? The Holy Spirit guides all of us not just the Pope or the CC. So with the Holy Spirit as our guide in all things holy, who’s to say that what we are saying about the scriptures and the meaning of them are incorrect? With the Holy
Spirit guiding us couldn’t the way we believe be also correct?

No it depends, if you reject God you do not have the Holy Spirit in you. And of course you are not infallable when it comes to understanding scripture. (just read what you write)

Please read 1 Cor 12 1-11

We all have differents gifts given to us by One Spirit . But One Spirit that produces all of these gifts distributes them individually to each person as HE WISHES.

THere is no scripture that says that because you have the gift of the Holy Spirit you can interpret scripture. We all have our own special form of service given to us to do by our Lord and he produces them through us.

And trust me if you had that gift you would not be in direct conflict with the teaching of the Apostles which is the teachings of the CC.

 

[rinnie]

So are you saying that when we are Baptized its the same as Jesus’ presence in the bread and wine? I don’t follow your logic on this one. According to the CC the bread and wine are Jesus so how does being Baptized fit into this. In Baptism we are not saying that the water becomes us like the bread and wine become Jesus. In Baptism nothing changes into something else. Its like saying that this pencil I hold up is a pen but the pencil don’t change into the pen it still looks like a pencil but infact it is a pen. The outward appears to be a pencil but it is now a pen.

We all have the Holy Spirit in us correct? So that would make us infallable when it comes to scripture also because its the same Holy Spirit the Pope has within him. But is the Pope only infallible on the CC doctrines? The Holy Spirit guides all of us not just the Pope or the CC. So with the Holy Spirit as our guide in all things holy, who’s to say that what we are saying about the scriptures and the meaning of them are incorrect? With the Holy
Spirit guiding us couldn’t the way we believe be also correct?

Simple just as Baptism wipes away our sins, it was made possible by the ultimate sacrifice the body and blood of Christ shed on the cross.

We are incorporation into Christ which is brought about by baptism, It is CONSTANTLY RENEWED and consolidated by sharing in the Eucharistic sacrifice. We can say that not only does each of us receive Christ that Christ receives us. The Eucharist is a way of us abiding in Christ and him in us. Every Sunday. everyday actually if we want. What an awesome gift!!

 

[rinnie]

Please have a look what a brother in Christ wrote in another thread about that topic:

I think this will answer your question pretty well.
We are not saying of us that we are Baptists,Methodists, PRotestants etc. We call ourselves Christians!

Esdra

Esdra I do not recall anyone here anyway rejecting you as Christians. I can only speak for myself and say anyone who accepts Jesus Christ and obeys his commandments the best of their knowledge is indeed a Christian to me.

But I can say that just because some is a Christian does not mean they have the FULLNESS OF THE TRUTH.

I believe all Christian Churchs have much of the truth. But not the fullness thats all.

 

[rinnie]

Why do think I wrote “Real Presence” and not without "?

I, and maybe also revkevin, who is apparently a brother in Christ and in the same denomination, do believe that Jesus is ALWAYS there, because he is first of all IN US thru the Holy Ghost and secondly he is with us because he promised us to be.

BUT, this doesn’t mean that he becomes present in wine and bread - there is no such thing like transsubstituion - this is one of the “pagan rites” that came into Christianity when Emporor Justinian (I think this was the Emporor after Constantine, right? - Not sure anymore…) - made Christianity to the main religion to safe his Empire.

PLEASE, read my post again where I have written WHY there is no real presence. - It was quite hard for me to translate it into English. (This would be Post #850!)

Esdra

Okay Esdra my bad, I did misunderstand you there. You did say you believe his real presence is in the Mass but not the Eucharist. I misunderstood.

You just reject that we receive him in the Holy Eucharist and it is not the real bread of eternal life.

But just curious. if The Eucharist is not the real flesh of Christ how do you feel we can obtain eternal life then. John 6:50-69 How do we eat this bread that comes down from heaven if not in the Eucharist. How can we have eternal life then. Because Jesus says who ever eats this bread will live forever. Because you deny what John 6; 50-59 claims, that the bread that Christ gives us is his flesh for the life of the world. Once again how do you obtain it?

 

[FantomScholar]

Okay Esdra my bad, I did misunderstand you there. You did say you believe his real presence is in the Mass but not the Eucharist. I misunderstood.

You just reject that we receive him in the Holy Eucharist and it is not the real bread of eternal life.

But just curious. if The Eucharist is not the real flesh of Christ how do you feel we can obtain eternal life then. John 6:50-69 How do we eat this bread that comes down from heaven if not in the Eucharist. How can we have eternal life then. Because Jesus says who ever eats this bread will live forever. Because you deny what John 6; 50-59 claims, that the bread that Christ gives us is his flesh for the life of the world. Once again how do you obtain it?

Not that I am in a position to answer for Esdra, but we do so by doing that very thing that Jesus is addressing in John 6; by coming to him and believing in Him,

 

[KathleenGee]

Esdra,

Thanks for sharing. I am going back into parish work and won’t be spending much time on CAF.

I pray for everyone, and pray for grace that people will listen to each other, and grow. For me, I can only go so far, and then have to leave to pray. It is also a wise comment to say that there will be others reading the posts here and be open to understand our faith.

I have never doubted the Eucharist in my entire life. My friends and I in Catholic school would go to the church and pray to Jesus in the tabernacle. I would stop by my own church on the way home from school, when those days allowed the churches to be open…now with vandalism, they can’t.

People have believed in the Eucharist since the very beginning of Christianity, and the Great Heresy was not to believe, but to see it merely as symbolic. As you are witness to all the disputes here on CAF, this may also help you to acknowledge the need for that which is objective and not arbitrary. The Sacraments are concrete, physical that contain the presence of Christ Who nurtures us with Himself…there is no arbitration. As the Church evolved into many different cultures and regions, that was the great work of always working to keep our faith universal, no matter where we are. Our parishes are testimony to the universal spirit. So many kinds of different people with different opinions. But the problem down the road was the Church becoming a temporal power, but we also know the church is self-reforming. The kingdom of Christ is within.

Bless you for your conversion to Christ, and may He keep you always close to His heart.

 

[rev_kevin]

Um Kev what’s your point. You just admitted YES Jesus said it in Luke. HE also said it it Mark. 14:22 Take it THIS IS MY Body (Now Rev Kev he said Take this, what do you think they were to do with it Kev? BUt if you are not sure read the next line He gave them the cup and they ALL DRANK from it. SO that should give you a pretty good clue that yes, once again they ate and drank.

I said according to Jewish tradition Passover is celebrated with 4 cups.

Matt 26:26-29 Here was the 3rd cup, the cup of blessing But Jesus said that the bread and wine were his body did he not? I told you the Blood of the covenant was a quotation form Exodus 24:8 which the disciples would have recognized. Jesus is introducing a NEW Covenant one that will be ratified by his OWN BLOOD.

Next come the singing hymn of praise and then SHOULD come the cup of consummation. But it never happened did it? Red psalms 114-118 The Great Hallel were sung when passover ended. It is the most IMPORTANT part and they abandoned thier Passover before it was finished.

Why Kevin did that happen, why did Jesus not drink from the last cup. SImple and here is why. He still had ONE cup to drink and it was the Cup OF Consummation. The Cup of the New Covenant, WHich Jesus anticipated when he offered HIMSELF at the Last supper. The same New covenant that you reject.

Bread and Wine is not what saved us, It was the flesh of Jesus Christ and the Blood of Jesus CHrist that saved us. It is the Body and Blood of Christ that his Father accepted in the agony in the garden that saved us. I am sorry his body and blood is no simple. He said this is my Body and this is my Blood and he meant it.

When he drank the last cup the time had come just as Jesus promised. At that moment the curtain of the temple that physically separated the People form God was torn in 2. At the moment it was also the death of Jesus. It was the outer curtain then the tearing also prefigured the end of the world of the OC, the outer curtain was decorated with pictures representing the whole creation.

Please read Ex. 24 again Rev. Jesus became the Passover Lamb. That is why we call him the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

This is so strange. But tommorow is Pentecost Sunday. Lent is now comming to a close. Jesus Christ is indeed the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

The Church now continues with the mission of Christ. As the Father sent me even so I send you.

The Euchatist Sacrifice that takes place in sacramental communion.

You are my Friends (Jn 15:14)
Indeed it is because of him we have eternal life, He who eats me will live because of me John 6:57) (JN 15:4) Abide in me and I in you. Forgive me Rev Kev I cannot see how you can reject those words or get around the word of Christ and say it is not his bread and blood sent down from heaven as Jesus states so clear in John 58. And say no it is not the bread sent down from heaven it is just a symbol. I cannot see how you can continue to reject these words. I will continue to pray for you that you can accept all of the teachings of our dear Lord.

Do you remember what you wrote when you said I was wrong that is not what Jesus said? You said that Jesus said, Take it and eat it this is my body. Which I did say yes in Matthew it says take it and eat it but not in the other writtings. As far as Luke goes it does not say take it and eat it it says “This is my body, given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” Where do you see take it and eat it. In Mark it says, “take it, this is my body.” Where do you see take it and eat it" like it says in Matthew. Now here’s where you are wrong about what I have posted, I always said it said “this is my body.” I never said it didn’t. What I’m saying is when Jesus held up the bread and broke it, and said this is my body, he didn’t mean that it has changed into his real body or that he was in the bread. Jesus was using the bread as a symbol of his body that was going to be broken for our sins.
You asked when Jesus said “take this” what were they to do with it, well logic would say they would eat it. But just because they ate it don’t mean that it became the real presence of Christ. I did not say they didn’t eat it, I was responding to your I was wrong in what Jesus said, which I wasn’t. He only said eat it in Matthew and I pointed out that in the other ones he did not say that.
Once again logic would say they drank it. I never said they didn’t eat or drink it, I was once again responding to your wrong thing and pointed out that the others didn’t say eat it.
Yes Jesus said the bread and wine were his body, I never said he didn’t say that. And I told you what the meaning of Exodus 24:8 meant. How do you see in Exodus 25:8 Jesus is introducing the New Covenant. They used animals as a sacrifice to God for the forgiveness of their sins.
Lets get one thing straight, I NEVER HAVE NOR WILL EVER REJECT THE NEW COVENANT. DO NOT AND I REPEAT DO NOT SAY THINGS THAT ARE FALSE AGAINST ME.

 

[rev_kevin]

Do you remember what you wrote when you said I was wrong that is not what Jesus said? You said that Jesus said, Take it and eat it this is my body. Which I did say yes in Matthew it says take it and eat it but not in the other writtings. As far as Luke goes it does not say take it and eat it it says “This is my body, given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” Where do you see take it and eat it. In Mark it says, “take it, this is my body.” Where do you see take it and eat it" like it says in Matthew. Now here’s where you are wrong about what I have posted, I always said it said “this is my body.” I never said it didn’t. What I’m saying is when Jesus held up the bread and broke it, and said this is my body, he didn’t mean that it has changed into his real body or that he was in the bread. Jesus was using the bread as a symbol of his body that was going to be broken for our sins.
You asked when Jesus said “take this” what were they to do with it, well logic would say they would eat it. But just because they ate it don’t mean that it became the real presence of Christ. I did not say they didn’t eat it, I was responding to your I was wrong in what Jesus said, which I wasn’t. He only said eat it in Matthew and I pointed out that in the other ones he did not say that.
Once again logic would say they drank it. I never said they didn’t eat or drink it, I was once again responding to your wrong thing and pointed out that the others didn’t say eat it.
Yes Jesus said the bread and wine were his body, I never said he didn’t say that. And I told you what the meaning of Exodus 24:8 meant. How do you see in Exodus 25:8 Jesus is introducing the New Covenant. They used animals as a sacrifice to God for the forgiveness of their sins.
Lets get one thing straight, I NEVER HAVE NOR WILL EVER REJECT THE NEW COVENANT. DO NOT AND I REPEAT DO NOT SAY THINGS THAT ARE FALSE AGAINST ME.

cont.
Where did I say the bread and wine is what saved us. I didn’t. I have said thath the flesh Jesus was talking about is his body that was the sacrifice that was going to be broken and nailed to the cross for our sins.
No the garden was not where we were saved. we were saved when Jesus died on the cross.
Yes Jesus did mean this is my body and this is my blood as a symbol of what was going to happen.
I stick by wha tI said about Exodus 24.
I never said Jesus wasn’t the bread sent down from heaven. I said Jesus is the bread of life sent down from heaven and that the bread and wine at the last supper was a symbol, not his real presence.
I do not reject those words as you say I do. I don’t believe they mean what you think they mean. Its not the teachings of Our Lord that I reject, I disagree with some of the teachings of the CC. But thanks for the prayers.

 

[rev_kevin]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

No it depends, if you reject God you do not have the Holy Spirit in you. And of course you are not infallable when it comes to understanding scripture. (just read what you write)

Please read 1 Cor 12 1-11

We all have differents gifts given to us by One Spirit . But One Spirit that produces all of these gifts distributes them individually to each person as HE WISHES.

THere is no scripture that says that because you have the gift of the Holy Spirit you can interpret scripture. We all have our own special form of service given to us to do by our Lord and he produces them through us.

And trust me if you had that gift you would not be in direct conflict with the teaching of the Apostles which is the teachings of the CC.

Of course we all have certain gifts. But to say that every single Pope has the gift to interperet scripture seems far fetched.
You are correct if one rejects God they do not have the Holy Spirit in them, I do not reject God therefore I have the Holy Spirit within me.
So the Pope don’t have the gift because according to what you are saying, there is no scripture that says that.
I’m not in direct conflict with the teachings of our Lord, I don’t believe in some of the teachings of the CC.

 

[rev_kevin]

Baptism is our betrothal to Jesus. The Eucharist is our consummation with Him.

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Betrothal: An engagement to be married. the act or ceremony of becoming engaged to be married. To promise to take or given in marriage.
Baptism is our acceptance of Christ into our lives.