How to deal with "Every religion thinks it's the right one"

[Servant19]

Perhaps. Which is maybe why the theme of ancient Zoroastrianism was “good thoughts, good words, good deeds”. The Jews were then given the commandments while maintaining Zoroastrian concepts of heaven and hell etc., while Buddhism stemmed from Zoroastrianism but added reincarnation and other worldly man made concepts. With Jesus we were then offered reassurance of everlasting life as originally revealed as well as a role model for achieving that.

…where Mohammed fits in I have no idea. if Baha’i must include Mohammed -then that’s a problem…

Some very mature insights there TEPO. You’re analysis of pre-Messianic religions is very true

Muhammad introduced the seeds of nation building and the development of order and Law within a nation state.

The Bahai Faith injected an absolute all-embracing spirit into this context and extended it to global building.

"The earth is but one country and mankind it’s citizens" - Baha’u’llah

 

[Servant19]

-]/-]

Ask them when was their church founded, and who was the founder, the Catholic Church can go back 2000 years.

The Bahai Faith considers itself a chapter in the Book of the eternal Faith of God.

In answer to your question therefore, this religion does not have a beginning, since God is eternal.

“***This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future.” ***- Baha’u’llah



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[Servant19]

It is very simple. Let us consider the first case. You certainly believe in creation. Do you believe that Gods creation is complete or it is not considering the fact that God is omnipotence?

I am not in a position to define God or His creation or (heaven forbid) His Kingdom.

I have no idea if Gods creation is complete or if creation is still occurring. It is beyond my finite mind to make such statements.

What the word “complete” means in this context is also up for discussion.

I believe that creation is perfect, since God is perfect, but that’s as gas as I can speculate dear friend

I still therefore am unable to understand your position. Do you think children should be educated and parented?



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[Milasol]

The age of one’s church doesn’t parallel it’s truth or veracity.
There was a time when Christianity was just a week, a month, a few years, a century old, too.
If you are gauging by length of time then Judaism, of course, has been around twice as long as Christianity…not to mention Hinduism and Buddhism, among others.

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I think he was pointing the founder more than the length of time. And nope Judaism Buddhism, Hinduism, are not Christian. He specifically talks about Christianity.

 

[TEPO]

Yes dear friend, 5 x 5 will always be 25, God in all His religions has taught love over war, and Jesus’ teachings do not completely fulfill Mosaic Law, He annulled a whole lot of them. I see a huge amount of uncircumcised Catholics for example at my all-embracing nudist parties for example (lol)

How do you reconcile these contradictions to your post dear friend?



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When Jesus offered the keys to Peter to bind and loosen, he was talking about mosaic (canon) law. These are laws of (t)radiation not (T)radiation -which means they were always meant to be temporary… Just like the whole of our Canon laws today. They are temporary.

…Surely the Jews did not expect to be on a strict diet in heaven. Surely they did not plan on circumcising their young in heaven… :shrug:Jesus did not abolish the Law, he binded and loosened it. He then gave our first pope the “keys” to change laws further through the guidance of the Spirit. If the Pope decides tomorrow that priests can marry, then the pope will have loosened the law using the “keys” that he was given. He could also bind us by reenforcing circumcision.

But the Pope can never change Tradition -the teachings and dogmas of the Church that have existed and will continue to always exist. Nor can Baha’i.

…but all the dogmas of the Church were foretold in Torah. The Virgin birth, the crucifixion, etc. Jesus truly fulfilled. He annulled nothing that was a permanent Truth.

 

[TEPO]

Muhammad introduced the seeds of nation building and the development of order and Law within a nation state.

The Bahai Faith injected an absolute all-embracing spirit into this context and extended it to global building.

"The earth is but one country and mankind it’s citizens" - Baha’u’llah

Islam is just as much an ideology as a religion. It is an ‘order’.

…does Baha’i have law, as Islam has Sharia? If not, then how exactly is Mohammed responsible for introducing a “seed” that Baha’i does not nurture and help grow? Essentially, Baha’i does not actually respect what Mohammed created, they only claim to by comparing it with the desire to create a global government.

…or does Baha’i actually have declarations of Law and proposed military operatives? How about government, economics, etc…? Sharia does.

 

[TEPO]

Or IS Sharia the law that Baha’i would use?

 

[Servant19]

When Jesus offered the keys to Peter to bind and loosen, he was talking about mosaic (canon) law. These are laws of (t)radiation not (T)radiation -which means they were always meant to be temporary… Just like the whole of our Canon laws today. They are temporary.

…Surely the Jews did not expect to be on a strict diet in heaven. Surely they did not plan on circumcising their young in heaven… :shrug:Jesus did not abolish the Law, he binded and loosened it. He then gave our first pope the “keys” to change laws further through the guidance of the Spirit. If the Pope decides tomorrow that priests can marry, then the pope will have loosened the law using the “keys” that he was given. He could also bind us by reenforcing circumcision.

But the Pope can never change Tradition -the teachings and dogmas of the Church that have existed and will continue to always exist. Nor can Baha’i.

…but all the dogmas of the Church were foretold in Torah. The Virgin birth, the crucifixion, etc. Jesus truly fulfilled. He annulled nothing that was a permanent Truth.

Of course dear friend, when talking as a Christian with no consideration of anything else one must state “But the Pope can never change Tradition -the teachings and dogmas of the Church that have existed and will continue to always exist. Nor can Baha’i.”



…one could also look at the panorama and the beauty from the mountain top

Here’s a view to consider, humbly offered

The Law of Moses is eternal and can never be changed. This is from the perspective of a Jew, with no consideration of anything else.

hadavar.org/critical-issues/anti-missionary-arguments/additional-issues/the-law-of-moses-is-eternal/

A Jew would therefore state:

“But Jesus and Peter can never change S’michnah (and S’mikhah) -the teachings and dogmas of the Torah that have existed and will continue to always exist.”

Do you see the way humanity continues to err when God is repeatedly rejected with the same arguments from age to age.

Come to the mountain top and see dear friend

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[Servant19]

Islam is just as much an ideology as a religion. It is an ‘order’.

…does Baha’i have law, as Islam has Sharia? If not, then how exactly is Mohammed responsible for introducing a “seed” that Baha’i does not nurture and help grow? Essentially, Baha’i does not actually respect what Mohammed created, they only claim to by comparing it with the desire to create a global government.

…or does Baha’i actually have declarations of Law and proposed military operatives? How about government, economics, etc…? Sharia does.

The charter for a new global civilization are found in Baha’u’llah’s book of Laws, the Kitab-i-Aqdas (The Most Holy Book) (reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KA/)
…but we must not think of this book as a “mere code of laws”

"Think not that We have revealed unto you a mere code of laws. Nay, rather, We have unsealed the choice Wine with the fingers of might and power. To this beareth witness that which the Pen of Revelation hath revealed. Meditate upon this, O men of insight!" - Baha’u’llah

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[Servant19]

Or IS Sharia the law that Baha’i would use?

Absolutely not…

Laws are important for the peace and security of humanity. Divine Law will foster harmony, but the laws instigated within Islam serve a different purpose. It creates nations.

Again, if you would kindly compare with the Jewish “nation of Israel” which was founded on Commandments and the creation of a nation. Islam is no different.

Christianity could easily have fulfilled Judaism to create a global civilization, but the time was not right. Humanity had no idea what the world was at that time 2000 years ago.

Baha’u’llahs Laws create a global community of love, fellowship, eternal material, intellectual and spiritual advancement and the protection of minority cultures and populations.

The time is right NOW, to create a global community. The Baha’i Faith is the modern day Christian Faith and the time is right now to enable it to finally bring about the unification of the human race, and from there, the new Jerusalem …



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[Abu]

Bahman #212

1. Jesus is God
2. Jesus died on the cross
   Here are the questions:
3. Who did then resurrect Jesus?
4. Knowing that he was resurrected and has a physical body afterward how he could go to Heaven knowing the fact that there is no space in Heaven since God is sole spirit and doesn’t occupy any space?
5. How God could possibly be in Heaven and have a physical body living on earth?, namely inside the dirt, meaning a place where people committee sins.

Such a confusion of thought illustrates clearly the lack of reality.

Fact 1: There was a man called Jesus.
Fact 2: He claimed to be a messenger sent from God.
Fact 3: He did enough to prove that He was such a messenger – multitudinous documented miracles.
Fact 4: Crowds followed Jesus and He had an inner circle to whom he spoke much more.
Fact 5: He commissioned His followers to continue His teaching and founded His Church.
Fact 6: Jesus affirmed that God would protect that teaching.

The writings of these facts—the Gospels – are comparable with other ancient documents from writers such as Caesar, Tacitus, Thucydides and others, they are all reliable as history.

Historically, they prove that the messenger sent from God worked many miracles to support His mission and teaching to the extent of forgiving sins. God as Truth cannot provide such power to prove falsehood, so the claims of Jesus are true, culminating in the fact of His resurrection from the dead.

This proves that God is not “sole spirit” for God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus, the Son of God, proclaimed:
Gospel of John Chapter 10:
25 Jesus answered them: I speak to you, and you believe not: the works that I do in the name of my Father, they give testimony of me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice. And I know them: and they follow me. 28 And I give them life everlasting: and they shall not perish for ever. And no man shall pluck them out of my hand. 29 That which my Father hath given me is greater than all: and no one can snatch them out of the hand of my Father. 30 I and the Father are one.
37 **If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. **38 But if I do, though you will not believe me, believe the works: that you may know and believe that the Father is in me and I in the Father.

“I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you." (John 14:15-18) “The Advocate, the Holy Spirit that the Father will send in My name, He will teach you everything and remind you of all that I told you.” (John 14:26) “But when He comes, the Spirit of truth, He will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. He will glorify Me, because He will take from what is mine and declare it to you. Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that He will take from what is mine and declare it to you.” (John 16:13-15)

So from the reliability of the Gospels as history, we now know that:

1. An infallible Church was founded by the Son of God
2. That infallible Church teaches that the Bible, as She has given us, is the inspired Word of God.

 

[santiagoamr]

1.- Study Philosophy specially Logic
2.- Study apologetics.
3.- Keep yourself open to inspiration and study Theology
4.- Have lot’s of debates with believers and non believers
5.- Know that you’ve won most of the debates.
6.- Understand that it does not matter to a person that you can prove that your religion is the true religion, many don’t care and most rather live a lie.
7.- Pray a lot so that the people you try to prove your religion to, one day gets inspired by the Holy Spirit and receives Faith instead of belief, in the process get some humility and know that you are not the one that acts in the persons minds and hearts, that is GOD who does that.
8.- Remember that your job is to bring the Living Word with you to all people, not by debate, but by prayer, communicating the gospel and example (humility required).

 

[Servant19]

1.- Study Philosophy specially Logic
2.- Study apologetics.
3.- Keep yourself open to inspiration and study Theology
4.- Have lot’s of debates with believers and non believers
5.- Know that you’ve won most of the debates.
6.- Understand that it does not matter to a person that you can prove that your religion is the true religion, many don’t care and most rather live a lie.
7.- Pray a lot so that the people you try to prove your religion to, one day gets inspired by the Holy Spirit and receives Faith instead of belief, in the process get some humility and know that you are not the one that acts in the persons minds and hearts, that is GOD who does that.
8.- Remember that your job is to bring the Living Word with you to all people, not by debate, but by prayer, communicating the gospel and example (humility required).

Very wise words dear friend

I would humbly replace numbers 4 and 5 with number 8. Debating and winning things so you can feel like you’re “better” than someone else is often a process that distances one with God.



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[santiagoamr]

Very wise words dear friend

I would humbly replace numbers 4 and 5 with number 8. Debating and winning things so you can feel like you’re “better” than someone else is often a process that distances one with God.



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Hahahaha, Yes i agree with you, it is just that this was my process which took a while to understand.
I used to love going in to “battle” and look the faces of the people I debated with just when I would reel them in. It was all pride, even though I did not witness a single conversion I felt all full of myself. It was just a false door, a lie, another way to sin. The Devil is very cunning, much smarter than I, he probably led me to a lot of good information, just so that I could fall in to his trap. He uses God against me, he still does, that is why I question everything I think, or know, and I specially try to be as obedient as I can, rebellion is not a good way to go, specially with The Church, God, and Faith. I still do a lot of Theology but only for me and my priest, and sometimes a friend or my mother after I run it through with a priest.

A true evangelist does not care about winning arguments, the best evangelists I know don’t have that much knowledge, they simply and truly live the Word with full intention, they truly love God and live for God and Mary

 

[Sen_McGlinn]

A true evangelist does not care about winning arguments, the best evangelists I know don’t have that much knowledge, they simply and truly live the Word with full intention, …

Hear hear. Winning arguments is a trap that lies in wait in forums like this - but the same forums offer the chance for fellowship and learning.

 

[TEPO]

The charter for a new global civilization are found in Baha’u’llah’s book of Laws, the Kitab-i-Aqdas (The Most Holy Book) (reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KA/)
…but we must not think of this book as a “mere code of laws”

"Think not that We have revealed unto you a mere code of laws. Nay, rather, We have unsealed the choice Wine with the fingers of might and power. To this beareth witness that which the Pen of Revelation hath revealed. Meditate upon this, O men of insight!" - Baha’u’llah

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Is it true that Baha’i does not include Zoroastrianism in the Star of Nine Religions because Baha’i is direct extention of Zoroastrianism? I understand there are genetic ties here between Mazda and Baha’u’llah.

Also, it’s interesting -the Universal House of Justice in Israel.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Absolutely not…

Laws are important for the peace and security of humanity. Divine Law will foster harmony, but the laws instigated within Islam serve a different purpose. It creates nations.

Again, if you would kindly compare with the Jewish “nation of Israel” which was founded on Commandments and the creation of a nation. Islam is no different.

Christianity could easily have fulfilled Judaism to create a global civilization, but the time was not right. Humanity had no idea what the world was at that time 2000 years ago.

Baha’u’llahs Laws create a global community of love, fellowship, eternal material, intellectual and spiritual advancement and the protection of minority cultures and populations.

The time is right NOW, to create a global community. The Baha’i Faith is the modern day Christian Faith and the time is right now to enable it to finally bring about the unification of the human race, and from there, the new Jerusalem …



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And you are an apostate to them. Your faith isn’t conducive to them us or Judaism. Who you have as prophet no-one accepts. Nothing but relativism. You don’t even accept the truth.

Sharia law is not needed for peace that is fairy tale in the mind of the delusional. Terrorism isn’t how you build countries, its how you build dictatorships and tyranny. No-one is having any, no-one. Ask any Russian.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEIQFjAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bic.org%2Fmedia%2FCurrent-situation-Bahais-in-Iran&ei=rKOFU7CIPNKwsAS4voCQBA&usg=AFQjCNFij-S5odwhoGudMaJRCHeBvaaU7Q&bvm=bv.67720277,d.cWc

 

[Servant19]

Is it true that Baha’i does not include Zoroastrianism in the Star of Nine Religions because Baha’i is direct extention of Zoroastrianism? I understand there are genetic ties here between Mazda and Baha’u’llah.

Also, it’s interesting -the Universal House of Justice in Israel.

Hello there TEPO

The Bahai Sacred Texts fully recognize Zoroaster as a Prophet of God and is religion is fully endorsed as an integral cog in The Divine Plan of God.

In regards to the Bahai Faith being an “extension” of Zoroastrianism, it is clearly stated in the Bahai Writings that Baha’u’llah is the fulfillment of all religions which have Divine origins, and He is the Promised One fulfilling all their prophecies, including the expectations of indigenous religions which may stretch back to their origins thousands of years ago.

The Universal House of Justice and “Point of Adoration” for the Baha’is is all based on Mount Carmel and it’s adjacent plains. Mount Carnel is the “Mountain of God” in many religious traditions.

God bless and great questions!!

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[Servant19]

And you are an apostate to them. Your faith isn’t conducive to them us or Judaism. Who you have as prophet no-one accepts. Nothing but relativism. You don’t even accept the truth.

Sharia law is not needed for peace that is fairy tale in the mind of the delusional. Terrorism isn’t how you build countries, its how you build dictatorships and tyranny. No-one is having any, no-one. Ask any Russian.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEIQFjAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bic.org%2Fmedia%2FCurrent-situation-Bahais-in-Iran&ei=rKOFU7CIPNKwsAS4voCQBA&usg=AFQjCNFij-S5odwhoGudMaJRCHeBvaaU7Q&bvm=bv.67720277,d.cWc

Thank you for your thoughts dear friend

Yes Jesus was a heretic and an apostate too!! I think the Baha’is are happy to be lumped in that category.

In regards to Sharia Law and the violent repercussions towards all deniers, apostates and heretics, I agree it’s no law in this modern world, but it served a purpose AT THE TIME

In like manner, Jewish Law sees little social benefits either in this modern world but at it’s time, it served a purpose in the Divine Plan.

Hope that assists your queries

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[GaryTaylor]

Thank you for your thoughts dear friend

Yes Jesus was a heretic and an apostate too!! I think the Baha’is are happy to be lumped in that category.

In regards to Sharia Law and the violent repercussions towards all deniers, apostates and heretics, I agree it’s no law in this modern world, but it served a purpose.

In like manner, Jewish Law sees little social benefits either in this modern world but at it’s time, it served a purpose in the Divine Plan.

Hope that assists your queries

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Good so you can actually be honest instead of the relative drival on a daily basis. What purpose did Sharia law serve “exactly”. And its an affirmative Islam has “no” use for you, no-one is picking up the phone for Bab? Why is that, this developed in Iran?