How to deal with "Every religion thinks it's the right one"

[Servant19]

Good so you can actually be honest instead of the relative drival on a daily basis. What purpose did Sharia law serve “exactly”. And its an affirmative Islam has “no” use for you, no-one is picking up the phone for Bab? Why is that, this developed in Iran?

Do you think I am being dishonest Gary? How so?

I apologize if my posts have been drivel

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[GaryTaylor]

Do you think I am being dishonest Gary? How so?

I apologize if my posts have been drivel

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Relativism, your like reading a Bab websight. I thought you were a computer bot for a moment.

"What good did Sharia Law bring:, or is this where a Bab websight pops up again about love or something?

 

[santiagoamr]

No, this is in response to the Christian claims that Jesus is God and therefore must be true.

I personally, look at the teachings, the commanding Word of God revealed and the spiritual transformations it brings about with the ensuing fruitful blossoms and sweet scented deeds and works it reaps. This is Truth, not “I am God” and we just put our hands down and obey like robots, or “I came back from the dead” and we just assume that someones testimony is accurate to the last letter and it must mean that the person who arose is God, and we just follow blindly…

I like to approach things a little more intellectually and analytically

Yes, which is what I stated, if you read again. The World of the Kingdom is the Word of God. The Word is found in the Person of Jesus Christ, but it is also found in the Person of Baha’u’llah. No question

…not because either of them said so, but because of th wonderful fruits that their teachings have brought to the World of Creation

I agree with you, I find Catholic mysticism very much in line with Truth, and I rever it greatly. Baha’i mysticism elaborates on Catholicism further, but you need to decide that for yourself. I have explored this pretty well, and continue to explore. You should not feel hindered to do the same, because it sounds you haven’t when you say:

I invite you to investigate this Faith further, if you so wish. It is your choice dear friend, but what you right here:

…is a fundamental error and misrepresentation of the Baha’i Faith.



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No we don’t take anybodies word for it, at least not in my case, I also like to be analytical, and the true mysticism of the Church comes in the Belief that Jesus IS God, truly, and completely, without that notion, there is no mysticism in any monotheistic faith, just ideas that make you feel good. Without that central belief, the concept of God is incomplete, and atheism wins.

Without that belief, any monotheistic concept is incomplete.

I would love to “teach” you, but I am through with teaching people about God, after all who am I to teach anybody about God, all I want to write is that everything that monotheism is is centred around Jesus Christ, and this is why Catholicism is centred on Christ, without, Christ being GOD, and not a prophet or an embodiment of God, but God himself, any teaching of Christ are complete nonsense, as well as any other prophet’s or embodiment’s of God.

This is the sole reason I now, immediately and without the least hesitation, dismiss completely any other monotheistic religion.

You should read a lot more, and analyse a lot more, maybe one day you will open your eyes, and get a glimpse of Truth.

Let me repeat myself so that you may meditate this further and seek more knowledge and inspiration, without Christ as God, there can’t be God, it is an impossibility, just like 1+1 is 2 and it does not matter perception or lack of knowledge of math, the Truth is that in any reality, 1+1 will always be 2. Without Christ being GOD, tGod Can not be Perfect, or Eternal, much less Omnipresent, Omnipotent, or Virtues. The notion of Christ being God is what closes the concept, what makes the monotheistic concept a true concept. What makes Redemption so wonderful, what links creation with redemption, what makes the figure of God as a father true.

Meditate, why? Ask yourself why this crazy person (me) wrote this words, or dismiss me completely, maybe I know something you do not. I’ve read about your faith, but I can not dismiss this, it is impossible and not because I am biased, but because after reading on your faith and many other faiths and searching for answers mostly through meditation, I arrived to an undeniable truth. Christ has to be God or the concept of God is completely and utterly false, it is not about doctrine or dogma, much less about belief, but about an undeniable truth, without Christ being truly and completely God, God does not exist and can not exist.

On another note, Catholic mysticism is so huge and so profound that there is no monotheistic religion comparable on earth regarding the extensive and profound mysticism that the Church has just in print, not even the Jewish faith has so much material and so profound, and that is saying something. I would almost venture and say than no religion at all including Buddhism.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Look the points are really elementary. You don’t believe what I do. Listen to me, there is no turning back when you claim absolute truth.

Its really like that. Which is why Bab and his crew along with the Christians and rest of the apostates are “barbarically” murdered is “Gods” name.

Now, if you came to the absolute truth, I say “Amen”, thats a long conversation, the short one is about the killing in Gods name.

No one is looking forward to hearing about any of Babs friends butchered in Iran? Can I get a Amen?

No Christians either. So what is all Gods people doing about the killing in Gods name, in reality, physically. Unless we believe their is in fact killing in Gods name, then we should actively stop the killing.

What is Bahal doing with Islam in this regard?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Which, sorry I missed adding, why I asked about Sharia Law? From a Bahal perspective also.

 

[Servant19]

Relativism, your like reading a Bab websight. I thought you were a computer bot for a moment.

"What good did Sharia Law bring:, or is this where a Bab websight pops up again about love or something?

I don’t feel comfortable with your tone Gary, but I will answer the question for others who may be reading, but if your posts don’t reflect basic human decency and respect then you can ask others your questions

Sharia Law introduced this:

"And as for those who strive in Our path — We will surely guide them in Our ways. And Indeed, Allah is with those who are of service to others. " (Al Quran 29:70)

…and this:

"Indeed, Allah is with those who are righteous and those who do good. " (Al Quran 16:129)

…to populations that buried their daughters alive.

I think I would call that a useful progress towards Godly ways…

As with Catholicism, what is teaching and what is practically seen in deeds are two different things. As there are Catholics who have made shameful mistakes, so have Muslims



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[Servant19]

No we don’t take anybodies word for it, at least not in my case, I also like to be analytical, and the true mysticism of the Church comes in the Belief that Jesus IS God, truly, and completely, without that notion, there is no mysticism in any monotheistic faith, just ideas that make you feel good. Without that central belief, the concept of God is incomplete, and atheism wins.

Without that belief, any monotheistic concept is incomplete.

I would love to “teach” you, but I am through with teaching people about God, after all who am I to teach anybody about God, all I want to write is that everything that monotheism is is centred around Jesus Christ, and this is why Catholicism is centred on Christ, without, Christ being GOD, and not a prophet or an embodiment of God, but God himself, any teaching of Christ are complete nonsense, as well as any other prophet’s or embodiment’s of God.

This is the sole reason I now, immediately and without the least hesitation, dismiss completely any other monotheistic religion.

You should read a lot more, and analyse a lot more, maybe one day you will open your eyes, and get a glimpse of Truth.

Let me repeat myself so that you may meditate this further and seek more knowledge and inspiration, without Christ as God, there can’t be God, it is an impossibility, just like 1+1 is 2 and it does not matter perception or lack of knowledge of math, the Truth is that in any reality, 1+1 will always be 2. Without Christ being GOD, tGod Can not be Perfect, or Eternal, much less Omnipresent, Omnipotent, or Virtues. The notion of Christ being God is what closes the concept, what makes the monotheistic concept a true concept. What makes Redemption so wonderful, what links creation with redemption, what makes the figure of God as a father true.

Meditate, why? Ask yourself why this crazy person (me) wrote this words, or dismiss me completely, maybe I know something you do not. I’ve read about your faith, but I can not dismiss this, it is impossible and not because I am biased, but because after reading on your faith and many other faiths and searching for answers mostly through meditation, I arrived to an undeniable truth. Christ has to be God or the concept of God is completely and utterly false, it is not about doctrine or dogma, much less about belief, but about an undeniable truth, without Christ being truly and completely God, God does not exist and can not exist.

On another note, Catholic mysticism is so huge and so profound that there is no monotheistic religion comparable on earth regarding the extensive and profound mysticism that the Church has just in print, not even the Jewish faith has so much material and so profound, and that is saying something. I would almost venture and say than no religion at all including Buddhism.

Thank you for your thoughts dear friend

I appreciate reading them. When you say that you dismiss any other monotheistic religion, are you also dismissing Judaism?

Also what are your thoughts in the Catholic Church doing the opposite to what you are saying, even acknowledging that all adherents of all monotheistic religions are considered baptised and “within” the Church?

In fact it is a de fide teaching of Catholicism that I, as a Bahai am baptised and part of the salvific plan of God. Your thoughts?



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[GaryTaylor]

I don’t feel comfortable with your tone Gary, but I will answer the question for others who may be reading, but if your posts don’t reflect basic human decency and respect then you can ask others your questions

Sharia Law introduced this:

"And as for those who strive in Our path — We will surely guide them in Our ways. And Indeed, Allah is with those who are of service to others. " (Al Quran 29:70)

…and this:

"Indeed, Allah is with those who are righteous and those who do good. " (Al Quran 16:129)

…to populations that buried their daughters alive.

I think I would call that a useful progress towards Godly ways…

As with Catholicism, what is teaching and what is practically seen in deeds are two different things. As there are Catholics who have made shameful mistakes, so have Muslims



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This has nothing to do with what I asked, it a non-answer. Relativism.

 

[Servant19]

This has nothing to do with what I asked, it a non-answer. Relativism.

What was relativistic about it?

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[GaryTaylor]

What was relativistic about it?

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Questions are clear 303 and 305. Answers are “relative” unclear.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CE4QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Faltreligion.about.com%2Fod%2Fcontroversymisconception%2Ftp%2Fbahai_persecution.htm&ei=rKOFU7CIPNKwsAS4voCQBA&usg=AFQjCNH1Z1U74J9i2zRT0uRYfSRbpFyNjA&bvm=bv.67720277,d.cWc

Not “People of the Book”

The Koran commands Muslims to respect the People of the Book, namely Christians and Jews, with whom Muslims share their mythology. Muslims also commonly include Zoroastrians in that category, for while they do not officially share holy texts, Zoroastrianism does share many similarities, including monotheism, the belief in an evil spirit roughly equivalent to Satan, a Final Judgment, and the moral judgment of the soul.

While the Baha’i recognize prophets from all four religions (along with those of others) and are monotheists, Muslims have never considered them People of the Book.

I assume this then relates to the questions I asked. I wasn’t aware of this.

 

[Servant19]

Questions are clear 303 and 305. Answers are “relative” unclear.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CE4QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Faltreligion.about.com%2Fod%2Fcontroversymisconception%2Ftp%2Fbahai_persecution.htm&ei=rKOFU7CIPNKwsAS4voCQBA&usg=AFQjCNH1Z1U74J9i2zRT0uRYfSRbpFyNjA&bvm=bv.67720277,d.cWc

Not “People of the Book”

The Koran commands Muslims to respect the People of the Book, namely Christians and Jews, with whom Muslims share their mythology. Muslims also commonly include Zoroastrians in that category, for while they do not officially share holy texts, Zoroastrianism does share many similarities, including monotheism, the belief in an evil spirit roughly equivalent to Satan, a Final Judgment, and the moral judgment of the soul.

While the Baha’i recognize prophets from all four religions (along with those of others) and are monotheists, Muslims have never considered them People of the Book.

I assume this then relates to the questions I asked. I wasn’t aware of this.

You asked what good odd Sharia bring?

In order to assess the goodness of something, you look at the before picture, then apply the thing, then look at the after picture, and compare it to the before picture.

The same people who buried their daughters alive, stopped doing that after the Laws of the Quran were applied. That’s ONE thing that was good.

I have no inclination to do research for others in this thread for all the other benefits of Quranic Law to the peoples of Arabia.



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[Servant19]

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I also fail to see what this has to do with persecution of Baha’is in different parts of the world…



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[GaryTaylor]

You asked what good odd Sharia bring?

In order to assess the goodness of something, you look at the before picture, then apply the thing, then look at the after picture, and compare it to the before picture.

The same people who buried their daughters alive, stopped doing that after the Laws of the Quran were applied. That’s ONE thing that was good.

I have no inclination to do research for others in this thread for all the other benefits of Quranic Law to the peoples of Arabia.



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I looked at the whole picture they are persecuting Bahals in Iran, your not people of the book, and Sharia law is in full effect. I have no inclination to do research either. Your claim is Sharia law is good. Its good for Bahals to be persecuted in Iran? What is Bahal doing about it? What good is Sharia law doing today.

None of your verse’s give me clarity, they don’t forward the conversation. Just saying, thanks but I don’t see it.

 

[Servant19]

I looked at the whole picture they are persecuting Bahals in Iran, your not people of the book, and Sharia law is in full effect. I have no inclination to do research either. Your claim is Sharia law is good. Its good for Bahals to be persecuted in Iran? What is Bahal doing about it? What good is Sharia law doing today.

None of your verse’s give me clarity, they don’t forward the conversation. Just saying, thanks but I don’t see it.

When did I say Sharia law is a source of good in this modern world, today?

I said on several occasions that it brought about a positive benefit AT THE TIME…



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[GaryTaylor]

Further the conflict in Egypt is well documented. What is the Bahals good idea of Sharia Law?

news.bahai.org/story/1004

What is Bahal saying about sharia law correctly applied socially and politically thus religiously?

 

[Servant19]

What is Bahal saying about sharia law correctly applied socially and politically thus religiously?

The Bahai Faith says thus about Muhammad and His authentic teachings:

“As to Muhammad, the Apostle of God, let none among His followers who read these pages, think for a moment that either Islám, or its Prophet, or His Book, or His appointed Successors, or any of His authentic teachings, have been, or are to be in any way, or to however slight a degree, disparaged. The lineage of the Báb, the descendant of the Imám Husayn; the divers and striking evidences, in Nabíl’s Narrative, of the attitude of the Herald of our Faith towards the Founder, the Imáms, and the Book of Islám; the glowing tributes paid by Bahá’u’lláh in the Kitáb-i-Íqán to Muhammad and His lawful Successors, and particularly to the “peerless and incomparable” Imám Husayn; the arguments adduced, forcibly, fearlessly, and publicly by Abdu'l-Bahá, in churches and synagogues, to demonstrate the validity of the Message of the Arabian Prophet; and last but not least the written testimonial of the Queen of Rumania, who, born in the Anglican faith and notwithstanding the close alliance of her government with the Greek Orthodox Church, the state religion of her adopted country, has, largely as a result of the perusal of these public discourses of Abdu’l-Bahá, been prompted to proclaim her recognition of the prophetic function of Muhammad-- all proclaim, in no uncertain terms, the true attitude of the Bahá’í Faith towards its parent religion.”

Baha’is have a critical role to play in humanity’s salvation:

‘There is so [much] misunderstanding about Islam in the West in general that you have to dispel. Your task is rather difficult and requires a good deal of erudition. Your chief task is to acquaint the friends with the pure teaching of the Prophet [Muhammad] as recorded in the Qur’án, and then to point out how these teachings have, throughout succeeding ages, influenced,] nay,] guided the course of human development. In other words you have to show the position and significance of Islam in the history of civilisation.’

• Shoghi Effendi, (the Guardian of the Baha’i Faith). Lights of Guidance, New Delhi: Bahá’í Publishing Trust, 2nd rev. and enlarged edition, 1988, #1664.

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[GaryTaylor]

“Laws are important for the peace and security of humanity. Divine Law will foster harmony, but the laws instigated within Islam serve a different purpose. It creates nations.”

Their is no law with sharia law its a social-political agenda dressed in religion. Better known as slavery and bondage, Bahals seem to agree in Iran and Egypt.

Whats the perfect social-political reality for Bahals, especially when all three major religions don’t consider them people of the book?

Christians consider Islam people of the book, certainly the Jews do and so forth with Islam.

 

[Servant19]

“Laws are important for the peace and security of humanity. Divine Law will foster harmony, but the laws instigated within Islam serve a different purpose. It creates nations.”

Their is no law with sharia law its a social-political agenda dressed in religion. Better known as slavery and bondage, Bahals seem to agree in Iran and Egypt.

Whats the perfect social-political reality for Bahals, especially when all three major religions don’t consider them people of the book?

Christians consider Islam people of the book, certainly the Jews do and so forth with Islam.

I think Iran and Egypt are extreme examples. When applied according to the “spirit of Islam” Sharia Law can bring about countries with low ecological footprints, good wellbeing and a strong happiness index. Indonesia is a good example. So the claim that Sharia Law is all slavery and bondage is typical of Westernized thinking.

In fact I would suggest that this kind of thinking is quite anti-Catholic…



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[GaryTaylor]

“In other words you have to show the position and significance of Islam in the history of civilisation”

Mohammad is the last prophet thus the situation Bahals find themselves in. Not a matter of showing what good anyone has done. Its a matter of showing false teaching.

How are you convince them Mohammed isn’t the last prophet. “Bahá’í teachings inconsistent with traditional Islamic belief, including the finality of Muhammad’s prophethood”

And your not people of the book. I don’t see this going well.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I think Iran and Egypt are extreme examples. When applied according to the “spirit of Islam” Sharia Law can bring about countries with low ecological footprints, good wellbeing and a strong happiness index. Indonesia is a good example. So the claim that Sharia Law is all slavery and bondage is typical of Westernized thinking.

In fact I would suggest that this kind of thinking is quite anti-Catholic…



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I don’t see any support to your claim, nor in reality in the preponderance of factual reality today. I don’t care what you think is anti Catholic in that far stretch of your imagination.

Where is the religion of peace, Iran? Egypt? SA? Turkey? Syria? Pakistan? Iraq? Afghanistan, etc.

Western thinking is another false accusation also. Assumption