How to deal with "Every religion thinks it's the right one"

[Servant19]

“In other words you have to show the position and significance of Islam in the history of civilisation”

Mohammad is the last prophet thus the situation Bahals find themselves in. Not a matter of showing what good anyone has done. Its a matter of showing false teaching.

How are you convince them Mohammed isn’t the last prophet. “Bahá’í teachings inconsistent with traditional Islamic belief, including the finality of Muhammad’s prophethood”

And your not people of the book. I don’t see this going well.

Its going perfectly well. Do I sense a hint of compassion there Gary

Yes, Islam has today fallen down a bottomless pit in many parts of the world. The teachings are not followed. How can ANY persecution happen when Muhammad categorically stated this?

“Will ye slay a man because he says, ‘My Lord is Allah’?- when he has indeed come to you with Clear (Signs) from your Lord? and if he be a liar, on him is (the sin of) his lie: but, if he is telling the Truth, then will fall on you something of the (calamity) of which he warns you: Truly Allah guides not one who transgresses and lies!”

• Qur’an 40:28

This is EXACTLY why God renews His religion from age to age. Because the original teachings of the Prophet are distorted to such a degree as to be presented stench-filled. What the media shows today is not Islam. What is practised today by a large population is not Islam.

They can persecute Baha’is as much as they like in Iran. The Baha’i Faith is the second most widespread religion on the earth and it will be the fastest growing when the next stats are released.

We work and collaborate lovingly with democratic governments to encourage them to assert the need for justice in Iran. Its the only thing we can do without becoming politically involved.

The rest is down to God

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[Servant19]

I don’t see any support to your claim, nor in reality in the preponderance of factual reality today. I don’t care what you think is anti Catholic in that far stretch of your imagination.

Where is the religion of peace, Iran? Egypt? SA? Turkey? Syria? Pakistan? Iraq? Afghanistan, etc.

Western thinking is another false accusation also. Assumption

The same can be said about the religion of peace, Judaism

Do you reject them too?

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[Servant19]

How are you convince them Mohammed isn’t the last prophet. “Bahá’í teachings inconsistent with traditional Islamic belief, including the finality of Muhammad’s prophethood”

We can convince them and we will

Looking at the history it is clear that some of the most erudite scholars of Islam throughout history were and are convinced of the Baha’i Faith, including the chief theologian for the Shah at the time of Baha’u’llah.

Today, I have seen many many Muslims shed tears of joy and exultation upon reading the Word of God found in Baha’i Texts. Everything they wished to know was found in those Words.



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[GaryTaylor]

Its going perfectly well. Do I sense a hint of compassion there Gary

Well, its not hard to see the holy land is a boiling pot with annual jihad. It needs to be rationally corrected. Or will continue to reappear as it has continued to, which it is suppose to. It stops only by suppression historically. I don’t see any other reality in reading.

Yes, Islam has today fallen down a bottomless pit in many parts of the world. The teachings are not followed. How can ANY persecution happen when Muhammad categorically stated this?

I really like these people they are very religious and I have a great deal of common ground with them. But the violence and totalitarian heavy hand is unacceptable. Tolerance and dialogue can be the only way, but not at high levels. They already believe in this altered idea of the absolute truth.

Bottom line though you won’t convince them Mohammed isn’t the last prophet by large. How can the Koran be reconciled this way? Its rather bold telling people they don’t understand their own book.

This is EXACTLY why God renews His religion from age to age. Because the original teachings of the Prophet are distorted to such a degree as to be presented stench-filled. What the media shows today is not Islam. What is practised today by a large population is not Islam.

But this would mean Mohammeds message became distorted, this is seriously considered by many very good muslims. But not that he wasn’t the last prophet. I don’t any who follow islam and believe that.

They can persecute Baha’is as much as they like in Iran. The Baha’i Faith is the second most widespread religion on the earth and it will be the fastest growing when the next stats are released.

Well, it would be progress if we can somehow work collectively toward stopping the violence so people can calm down, think, and work together. I know they see themselves as “protecting” the holy land. They are not having any secular nonsense. But they extend past tolerance much to quickly I read all the court proceedings on Bahal in Egypt. Interesting, Egypt is an interesting possibility.

We work and collaborate lovingly with democratic governments to encourage them to assert the need for justice in Iran. Its the only thing we can do without becoming politically involved.

Iran is difficult, very difficult and its becoming more so. Egypt could off-set Iran.

The rest is down to God

He already intervened in Egypt. The Coptic Church is indeed forever blessed.

 

[Servant19]

Well, its not hard to see the holy land is a boiling pot with annual jihad. It needs to be rationally corrected. Or will continue to reappear as it has continued to, which it is suppose to. It stops only by suppression historically. I don’t see any other reality in reading.

I really like these people they are very religious and I have a great deal of common ground with them. But the violence and totalitarian heavy hand is unacceptable. Tolerance and dialogue can be the only way, but not at high levels. They already believe in this altered idea of the absolute truth.

Bottom line though you won’t convince them Mohammed isn’t the last prophet by large. How can the Koran be reconciled this way? Its rather bold telling people they don’t understand their own book.

But this would mean Mohammeds message became distorted, this is seriously considered by many very good muslims. But not that he wasn’t the last prophet. I don’t any who follow islam and believe that.

Well, it would be progress if we can somehow work collectively toward stopping the violence so people can calm down, think, and work together. I know they see themselves as “protecting” the holy land. They are not having any secular nonsense. But they extend past tolerance much to quickly I read all the court proceedings on Bahal in Egypt. Interesting, Egypt is an interesting possibility.

Iran is difficult, very difficult and its becoming more so. Egypt could off-set Iran.

He already intervened in Egypt. The Coptic Church is indeed forever blessed.

Thankyou for these thoughts Gary. In essence I agree with all you say here, and I feel your heart and spirit God bless you and your loved ones.

In relation to Muhammad being the last Prophet, He is and Baha’u’llah confirms this.

Baha’u’llah is not a Prophet. The cycle of prophecy ended with Muhammad.

The Baha’i Faith has heralded a new cycle in religious history. The Cycle of Manifestation.

The Cycle of Prophecy, or the Adamic Cycle simply prophecies about the preparation of humanity for the Last Days. Baha’u’llah has heralded the fulfilment of the Cycle of Prophecy, and the Baha’i Cycle of Manifestation and Fulfillment has begun. Baha’u’llah is the Promised One of all religions

There are also two types of Prophet according to the Quran. Muhammad is one of them, and is the seal of that type of Prophet. Baha’u’llah is not that type of Prophet, He is a Manifestation of God, and there lies the difference

Many millions of Muslims have recognised this over the past hundred or so years, and of course those that are still Muslim have either not heard of the Baha’i Faith, or are too scared to admit their belief in Baha’u’llah or are ignorant of Baha’i teachings and the validity of Baha’u’llahs station.

God bless

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[GaryTaylor]

Many millions of Muslims have recognised this over the past hundred or so years, and of course those that are still Muslim have either not heard of the Baha’i Faith, or are too scared to admit their belief in Baha’u’llah or are ignorant of Baha’i teachings and the validity of Baha’u’llahs station.

God bless

.

You know Christians and Muslims say the same with different wording.

Still we need to find tolerance, its not realistic for entire religions to be consumed by one. They will need to co-exist. We need to accept the fact this may never occur in the physical reality. We will still need to get along, live together to permeate the secular world and the Truth will reveal itself in time.

 

[Servant19]

You know Christians and Muslims say the same with different wording.

Still we need to find tolerance, its not realistic for entire religions to consumed by one. They will need to co-exist. We need to accept the fact this may never occur in the physical reality. We will still need to get along, live together permeate the secular world and the Truth will reveal itself in time.

I can give a great big Amen to that dear friend. I’m glad we have found a loving focal point in our conversation. I can assure you that you and your loved ones will be in my prayers.

God bless you

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[GaryTaylor]

I can give a great big Amen to that dear friend. I’m glad we have found a loving focal point in our conversation. I can assure you that you and your loved ones will be in my prayers.

God bless you

.

You and yours also.

 

[santiagoamr]

Thank you for your thoughts dear friend

I appreciate reading them. When you say that you dismiss any other monotheistic religion, are you also dismissing Judaism?

Also what are your thoughts in the Catholic Church doing the opposite to what you are saying, even acknowledging that all adherents of all monotheistic religions are considered baptised and “within” the Church?

In fact it is a de fide teaching of Catholicism that I, as a Bahai am baptised and part of the salvific plan of God. Your thoughts?



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Judaism WAS what the Church is now, meaning that modern Judaism is completely mute, so yes i dismiss it completely, we were jews, but now we are not. The Catholic Church is the continuation of Judaism.

I believe it completely, It is sort of like what your faith ttys to do by uniting all religions, the big difference hear is that it is not a mixture of beliefs. With Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus, you can attain salvation, probably easier than a Catholic, specially an educated Catholic, you don’t have to have a faith, so I am all good for it, YAY God’s Mercy, it is for everyone. The Baptism of fire is awesome!!! But you still have to try to be a good person, unless of course you turn your back to the Church because it suits you and not in good conscience, so be careful with that, because having conscience means putting your feeling aside and that is where it can get tricky.

 

[santiagoamr]

Thankyou for these thoughts Gary. In essence I agree with all you say here, and I feel your heart and spirit God bless you and your loved ones.

In relation to Muhammad being the last Prophet, He is and Baha’u’llah confirms this.

Baha’u’llah is not a Prophet. The cycle of prophecy ended with Muhammad.

The Baha’i Faith has heralded a new cycle in religious history. The Cycle of Manifestation.

The Cycle of Prophecy, or the Adamic Cycle simply prophecies about the preparation of humanity for the Last Days. Baha’u’llah has heralded the fulfilment of the Cycle of Prophecy, and the Baha’i Cycle of Manifestation and Fulfillment has begun. Baha’u’llah is the Promised One of all religions

There are also two types of Prophet according to the Quran. Muhammad is one of them, and is the seal of that type of Prophet. Baha’u’llah is not that type of Prophet, He is a Manifestation of God, and there lies the difference

Many millions of Muslims have recognised this over the past hundred or so years, and of course those that are still Muslim have either not heard of the Baha’i Faith, or are too scared to admit their belief in Baha’u’llah or are ignorant of Baha’i teachings and the validity of Baha’u’llahs station.

God bless

.

I personally believe and from what I’ve read and meditated that Mohammed was not a prophet, and that an Angel did appear to him but it was the deceiver, Mohammed himself believed that, and everything leads to that. So if Mohammed was indeed a “prophet” of satan, what would happen with the Baha’i teachings?
Mohammed dismissed Christ as God, when Christ himself clearly stated and that is how it was understood by his followers, that he is God, and Mohammed contradicted that. Now if there can be no God and no creation, without Jesus being God, and the Holy Spirit being God and the Father being God with their own person hoods, then Mohammed was deceived, so he can’t be a prophet.

 

[Servant19]

I personally believe and from what I’ve read and meditated that Mohammed was not a prophet, and that an Angel did appear to him but it was the deceiver, Mohammed himself believed that, and everything leads to that. So if Mohammed was indeed a “prophet” of satan, what would happen with the Baha’i teachings?
Mohammed dismissed Christ as God, when Christ himself clearly stated and that is how it was understood by his followers, that he is God, and Mohammed contradicted that. Now if there can be no God and no creation, without Jesus being God, and the Holy Spirit being God and the Father being God with their own person hoods, then Mohammed was deceived, so he can’t be a prophet.

Well Jesus too had several conversations with the Devil, but alas the Spirit took over. Or did it?

Why would you question Muhammad’s similar predicament?

This clearly indicates the human and Divine aspects of these Prophets.

Did your meditations on this subject consider this possibility? If so, why did you conclude that Muhammad was deceived and Jesus was not?



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[santiagoamr]

Well Jesus too had several conversations with the Devil, but alas the Spirit took over. Or did it?

Why would you question Muhammad’s similar predicament?

This clearly indicates the human and Divine aspects of these Prophets.

Did your meditations on this subject consider this possibility? If so, why did you conclude that Muhammad was deceived and Jesus was not?



.

Because by Mohammeds own words, he had serious doubts that his inspiration was divine. Jesus did not doubt, nor tried to commit suicide after meeting with “Gabriel” or thought he was under a spell or claimed that he had actual demonic inspirations.

 

[Servant19]

Because by Mohammeds own words, he had serious doubts that his inspiration was divine. Jesus did not doubt, nor tried to commit suicide after meeting with “Gabriel” or thought he was under a spell or claimed that he had actual demonic inspirations.

Why, do you think, after meditating long and hard on this, would all Prophets who, according to Catholicism have a human aspect, behave in exactly the same way when encountering the Divine?

The human aspect is not robotic. It has HUMAN elements, and just as you would respond with joy to some things, some people may respond with fear to the same thing.

Why would Jesus’ human aspect and Muhammad’s human aspect be any different? Jesus reacted differently to the Holy Spirit filling His being, but this makes the fact that there was a different reaction any less valid in Muhammad’s case.

You see, what is lacking is an all-embracing humility.

“I have found Jesus…everyone else MUST be a liar”

Why do you limit God?
Why do you impose your own fallacies upon His Chosen Ones?

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[Aloysium]

. . . Did your meditations on this subject consider this possibility? . . .

The Church is clear:

Catechism of the Catholic Church -106-108

God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. “To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more.”

The inspired books teach the truth. “Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.”

Still, the Christian faith is not a “religion of the book”. Christianity is the religion of the “Word” of God, “not a written and mute word, but incarnate and living”. If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, “open (our) minds to understand the Scriptures.”

The Baha’i Faith presents a distorted image of Jesus. You should accept that you will encounter criticism, some of it harsh.
I would hope that you are not here to proselytize, but to share your vision of God.
I hesitate to say anything, given that you have been very respectful. Absolutely nothing like some atheists who frequent these pages, vomiting over everything. However, you may wish to focus less on Islam. Quite rightly it is important for people to know about the persecution your members have had to endure. Also perhaps focus on where we are in agreement, rather than where obviously you will meet opposition(because you’ve got it wrong ).
May you grow in knowledge and love of the Lord.

 

[santiagoamr]

Why, do you think, after meditating long and hard on this, would all Prophets who, according to Catholicism have a human aspect, behave in exactly the same way when encountering the Divine?

The human aspect is not robotic. It has HUMAN elements, and just as you would respond with joy to some things, some people may respond with fear to the same thing.

Why would Jesus’ human aspect and Muhammad’s human aspect be any different? Jesus reacted differently to the Holy Spirit filling His being, but this makes the fact that there was a different reaction any less valid in Muhammad’s case.

You see, what is lacking is an all-embracing humility.

“I have found Jesus…everyone else MUST be a liar”

Why do you limit God?
Why do you impose your own fallacies upon His Chosen Ones?

.

I’ve considered it, but the fruits of Mohammed are evident. As well as Jesus’s.
Also Mohammed contradicts Jesus himself so that is just note a way to go, Prophets can not contradict each other if not the message is not prophetic, which in nature is Divine.
Anyway as I stated earlier, if a prophet denies the Divinity of Jesus, he, She or it can not be in communion with God, because it is a big Theological mistake. How can you say you know God if you deny Gods Omnipotence, or Perfection?
Have you considered reading Coran ( I know it is difficult because it is all messed up, but it is still possible) or Satanic V4erses?
Have you also considered that the Baha u llh actually was delusional or worse a liar? To me it seems ver plausible that a conmna can actually make a faith like that, it is not the first time. Hey lets pull all the faiths together say nice things from all mystics and theologists and mix it together saying that everyone is right so that people follow me?? It is very possible, it is just to tempting indeed, for the followers and the leader or leaders. Look at the Mormons, for arguments sake, no one saw the tablets except Smith, and still everyone believes that Jesus was in America and that God is not truly God it is just a semi God that came from Kolob.

By the way, for me, saying that Jesus is just a Prophet is like saying the Baha was just a clown and Mohammed just a pedophile, it is that important.

 

[Servant19]

The Church is clear:

The Baha’i Faith presents a distorted image of Jesus. You should accept that you will encounter criticism, some of it harsh.
I would hope that you are not here to proselytize, but to share your vision of God.
I hesitate to say anything, given that you have been very respectful. Absolutely nothing like some atheists who frequent these pages, vomiting over everything. However, you may wish to focus less on Islam. Quite rightly it is important for people to know about the persecution your members have had to endure. Also perhaps focus on where we are in agreement, rather than where obviously you will meet opposition(because you’ve got it wrong ).
May you grow in knowledge and love of the Lord.

My aim is certainly not to proselytise dear friend.

My aim is correct the wrongs of sweeping generalisations, painting entire religions with a broad stroke of the “false” brush and to discourse with people here about the specifics as to why so many Catholics are ignorant of the true facts of Islam and the Baha’i Faith, reading things from the “answeringislam” websites and other anti-Islamic blogs and websites.

Learn about the religion dear friends.

I am here to help you. Your local parish priest will not. I visited a Catholic Church about 2 years ago and asked if he had heard of the Bahai Faith and he said “Yes”…I delighted naturally. He then said that he thinks that monotheism is Truth. I agreed, and I asked, why do you ask?

He said that the Baha’i Faith is pantheistic

And this from the leaders of the Catholic religion.

No my friend, my aim is not to criticise, but to bring you all closer to God with the Truth about what so many of you are so totally ignorant

So if there are any specifics that you wish to discuss I am happy to. I’m always very friendly and humble enough to assert my limitations of knowledge.

“Let us reason together” therefore

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[santiagoamr]

My aim is certainly not to proselytise dear friend.

My aim is correct the wrongs of sweeping generalisations, painting entire religions with a broad stroke of the “false” brush and to discourse with people here about the specifics as to why so many Catholics are ignorant of the true facts of Islam and the Baha’i Faith, reading things from the “answeringislam” websites and other anti-Islamic blogs and websites.

Learn about the religion dear friends.

I am here to help you. Your local parish priest will not. I visited a Catholic Church about 2 years ago and asked if he had heard of the Bahai Faith and he said “Yes”…I delighted naturally. He then said that he thinks that monotheism is Truth. I agreed, and I asked, why do you ask?

He said that the Baha’i Faith is pantheistic

And this from the leaders of the Catholic religion.

No my friend, my aim is not to criticise, but to bring you all closer to God with the Truth about what so many of you are so totally ignorant

So if there are any specifics that you wish to discuss I am happy to. I’m always very friendly and humble enough to assert my limitations of knowledge.

“Let us reason together” therefore

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Do not get confused, having a talk with a priest from hundreds of thousands is not the compendium of knowledge of the RCC, it is not even the tip.
Believing alie is also ignorance. Lets say that you believe that 2+2 equals 8, and I do not know what it sums to: which one of us is more ignorant? I that do not know and know that I do not know or you that you believe that you know and are completely false.
Having this debate is mute, because you still can not answer why the Divinity of Jesus is intrinsic to the Nature of God, and can not be separated, just like the Omnipotence of God, or the Virtues of God, or the Eternity of God. This is not such a difficult mystery. If you say that God is all knowing and present everywhere but is not Eternal, are you talking about god, or something that is like God, but not god, or how about you acknowledge that God is Omnipresent but it is not the Creator, are you still talking about the ONE God or A god?
Until you can actually satisfy this question either by providing an argument against it or by knowing what I am really talking about, then the discussion of actually considering a Faith that does not contemplate at least two persons in one God, then there is no point. Monotheism is invalidated without that part of the equation, utterly and completely.

 

[Servant19]

I’ve considered it, but the fruits of Mohammed are evident. As well as Jesus’s.

Can you please specify what are the fruits of Islam that are so different to that of Judaism please? I prefer to compare like with like.

You are welcome to discuss another like for like. What are the fruits of the Baha’i Faith that are so different with Christianity?

If fruits are what you are after, I would suggest the fruits of the Baha’i Faith are the sweetest that there is

Also Mohammed contradicts Jesus himself so that is just note a way to go, Prophets can not contradict each other if not the message is not prophetic, which in nature is Divine.

So you are saying that Jesus in no way contradicts Moses and the Torah??

Besides if you are trying to bring a mass of people who are idol worshippers to worship the one God, it might not be wise guidance from an All-Wise Lord to tell them to start worshipping a Person instead.

The Arabian tribes were savagely lacking Spirit, and teaching “God is Spirit” is a much more wise approach. Even I can see that, never mind an All-Knowing, All-Wise Providence

Anyway as I stated earlier, if a prophet denies the Divinity of Jesus, he, She or it can not be in communion with God, because it is a big Theological mistake. How can you say you know God if you deny Gods Omnipotence, or Perfection?

Divinity of Jesus leads to another idol worshipping extravaganza to the Arabians AT THAT TIME.

Jesus never stated that He is God and the Father was greater. If Jesus is God then how can the Father be greater, “in any capacity”??

Have you considered reading Coran ( I know it is difficult because it is all messed up, but it is still possible) or Satanic V4erses?

Dear Lord, guide these people!!

Have you also considered that the Baha u llh actually was delusional or worse a liar? To me it seems ver plausible that a conmna can actually make a faith like that, it is not the first time.

Dear Lord indeed!

Dear friend, show me one conman who has done what Baha’u’llah has done. The second most widespread religion on earth, with not one sect, completely united and the emblem of what humanity should look like…loving all, embracing all, and never calling Prophets of other religions conmen, or their Holy Books as “messed”

Show me one person who has done this. Even Jesus hasn’t done this, because Jesus lovers cannot find space in their hearts to respect the Islamic religion.

You love Jesus don’t you?

Please dear friend

Hey lets pull all the faiths together say nice things from all mystics and theologists and mix it together saying that everyone is right so that people follow me?? It is very possible, it is just to tempting indeed, for the followers and the leader or leaders. Look at the Mormons, for arguments sake, no one saw the tablets except Smith, and still everyone believes that Jesus was in America and that God is not truly God it is just a semi God that came from Kolob.

By the way, for me, saying that Jesus is just a Prophet is like saying the Baha was just a clown and Mohammed just a pedophile, it is that important.

I have said enough. I must bite my tongue. The all-embracing values that you pride yourself on is not evident at all

God bless you.

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[Servant19]

Do not get confused, having a talk with a priest from hundreds of thousands is not the compendium of knowledge of the RCC, it is not even the tip.
Believing alie is also ignorance. Lets say that you believe that 2+2 equals 8, and I do not know what it sums to: which one of us is more ignorant? I that do not know and know that I do not know or you that you believe that you know and are completely false.
Having this debate is mute, because you still can not answer why the Divinity of Jesus is intrinsic to the Nature of God, and can not be separated, just like the Omnipotence of God, or the Virtues of God, or the Eternity of God. This is not such a difficult mystery. If you say that God is all knowing and present everywhere but is not Eternal, are you talking about god, or something that is like God, but not god, or how about you acknowledge that God is Omnipresent but it is not the Creator, are you still talking about the ONE God or A god?
Until you can actually satisfy this question either by providing an argument against it or by knowing what I am really talking about, then the discussion of actually considering a Faith that does not contemplate at least two persons in one God, then there is no point. Monotheism is invalidated without that part of the equation, utterly and completely.

Well please go ahead and correct me dear friend.

Where in my belief system do I believe 2+2=8??

Show me one Baha’i principle (you said you have studied the Baha’i Faith right?) that you can categorically and clearly prove that it is mistaken.

Thankyou



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[Servant19]

Do not get confused, having a talk with a priest from hundreds of thousands is not the compendium of knowledge of the RCC, it is not even the tip.
Believing alie is also ignorance. Lets say that you believe that 2+2 equals 8, and I do not know what it sums to: which one of us is more ignorant? I that do not know and know that I do not know or you that you believe that you know and are completely false.
Having this debate is mute, because you still can not answer why the Divinity of Jesus is intrinsic to the Nature of God, and can not be separated, just like the Omnipotence of God, or the Virtues of God, or the Eternity of God. This is not such a difficult mystery. If you say that God is all knowing and present everywhere but is not Eternal, are you talking about god, or something that is like God, but not god, or how about you acknowledge that God is Omnipresent but it is not the Creator, are you still talking about the ONE God or A god?
Until you can actually satisfy this question either by providing an argument against it or by knowing what I am really talking about, then the discussion of actually considering a Faith that does not contemplate at least two persons in one God, then there is no point. Monotheism is invalidated without that part of the equation, utterly and completely.

“The Father is greater than I”

Tell me how God can have a superior?

Co-eternality with God does not imply that He is God. Not at all.

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