How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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Frodobaggins, all of us agree that Jesus’s shed blood is what washes away our sins and gets us into God’s grace. The problem is that you seem to think that’s a one-time event. The Bible disagrees. Paul warns that we can lose our grace: “See then the kindness and the severity of God; severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, PROVIDED you continue in His kindness; OTHERWISE YOU TOO WILL BE CUT OFF,” Rom. 11:22.

Salvation depends on the state of the soul at the time of death, not at some earlier time. It is possible to live a sinful life and repent on your deathbed and go to heaven. And it is equally possible to follow Christ for years and then fall away into sin and not enter heaven, because nothing unclean can enter heaven, Rev. 21:27. Scripture says that we have been saved (2 Cor. 5:17), we are being saved (1 Cor. 15:2), and we will be saved (Romans 5:9). Why past, present, and future tense? Because we have been redeemed (the price has been paid), we are being made into new creations, and we will be saved if we remain in God’s grace when we die. We must try to avoid sinning and when we do sin we must ask for God’s forgiveness. We each must, “work out your own salvation in fear and trembling,” Php 2:12. I am redeemed – my sins have been paid for by Christ’s blood. If I die in a state of God’s grace, then I will enter heaven. But I cannot see the future and be “assured” that I will enter heaven no matter what I do now. What a dangerous belief that would be!
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
Chapter and verse please? Where does it say by trusting in His church? It is by grace through FAITH.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
(KJV)
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We trust in Him, and He is present in the church.

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he may hold the primacy:

1 Corinthians 12: 20 But now there are many members indeed, yet one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand: I need not thy help; nor again the head to the feet: I have no need of you. 22 Yea, much more those that seem to be the more feeble members of the body, are more necessary. 23 And such as we think to be the less honourable members of the body, about these we put more abundant honour; and those that are our uncomely parts, have more abundant comeliness. 24 But our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, giving to that which wanted the more abundant honour, 25 That there might be no schism in the body; but the members might be mutually careful one for another. 26 And if one member suffer any thing, all the members suffer with it; or if one member glory, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members of member.

Ephesians 5: 30 Because we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

1 Corinthians 10: 16 The chalice of benediction, which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread, which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord? 17 For we, being many, are one bread, one body, all that partake of one bread.

John 6: 56 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 57 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him.

Douay-Rheims translation.
 
Teflon93 said:
If one need only “trust” Christ, why do we need the Bible? Why do we need to join a “bible-believing” church?
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That’s easy…to grow in the faith once you are already born into God’s family.
 
TraditionalCath said:
i can tell you this, the outcome of who goes to heaven or not is up to God and not man. you do your best to live the way Christ wants you to live, you believe in Him, and as well as His One True Holy and Apostolic Church, the Catholic Church. others who through no fault of their own, who have led a good upstanding moral life who die are in the hands of God. it is not just by scripture alone that you must live. Christ gave us the Church, and it is His true church.
therefore, we are to follow what the church says because it is the truth. this truth was given to us by Christ Himself. everyone in their life on earth has a chance to come to know this truth. everyone.

as for who gets to heaven, that is up to God to decide and not man. we can have the hope yes, and we can live our lives pleasing to God, and walk in His ways, and follow Christ. But the decision of who goes to heaven or not is up to God Himself. it would be presumptuos on our part to definitively state that we are indeed going to heaven, we do not know this.
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Ps 119:105 (NKJV) NUN. Your word [is] a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.

Mt 4:4 (NKJV) But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
That’s easy…to grow in the faith once you are already born into God’s family.
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If you’re saved in the manner you’ve described, why is there still a need ‘to grow in the faith?’ Of what benefit is it to grow if you’ve already locked up your eternal destiny with a simple prayer? Don’t you have all the spiritual benefit you’ll ever need?
 
djrakowski said:
I truly accepted Jesus into my heart, and I completed the promises of my baptism when I was received into the Catholic Church.

I believe, as the Bible says, that baptism is necessary for salvation. Am I still a ‘saved’ Christian?

I believe, as the Bible says, and as the consistent tradition of Catholicism (and Orthodoxy) have taught from the beginning, that Jesus Christ is substantially present in the Holy Eucharist. Am I still a ‘saved’ Christian?

I believe, as the Bible says, that faith without works is dead. Am I still a ‘saved’ Christian?

I believe, as the Bible says, that the church is the pillar and ground of truth. Am I still a ‘saved’ Christian?

I believe, as the Bible says, that a person cannot be saved without obeying the commands of Jesus Christ. Am I still a ‘saved’ Christian?

In other words, do I have to throw away any of my Catholic (and Biblical) beliefs to be considered a ‘saved’ Christian, or am I going to hell for holding them?
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Do you have a genuine realationship with Jesus Christ? Have you placed your faith in Him and what He did on the cross to pay for your sins?

Where does the bible say that “the church” is the pillar and ground of truth? It says that Christ is the way, the truth and the life and no man comes to the Father, but through Him.

Joh 14:6 (NKJV) Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

What does the above verse mean? Just read it and please explain it to me. He doesn’t meantion the church, baptism, being good or anything other that Jesus Christ.
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
Where does the bible say that “the church” is the pillar and ground of truth?
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1 Timothy 3: 14 These things I write to thee, hoping that I shall come to thee shortly. 15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
 
Teflon93 said:
It means that God grants us grace which leads to our faith. The real question is what you think faith means.

And since I answered your question, why don’t you answer mine?

What does this one mean (James 2):

14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15: If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16: And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
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Talk about picking verses out of the air. This verse is talking about “true faith” in Christ produces fruit/works. It is not saying that works save. This is proven throughout the bible…

Ro 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ga 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
(KJV

Ro 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ga 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
Ps 119:105 (NKJV) NUN. Your word [is] a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.

Mt 4:4 (NKJV) But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”
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2 Peter 3:15-16 (NAB) - “And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.”
 
Frodo,
Is the Bible the Bulwark of truth?

What about if there is a dispute in matters of faith, am I to go to the Bible?

In Christ
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
That’s easy…to grow in the faith once you are already born into God’s family.
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But since I’m part of God’s family, I don’t need to go to church or read the Bible, right?

I trust God, and pray to him every day.

Many of the apostles were illiterate. The Bible didn’t even exist in their day. Were they saved?

The apostles regularly attended Jewish religious services on the Sabbath. The Church did not exist yer. Were they saved?
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
Mt 4:4 (NKJV) But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”
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Not every word that proceeds from the mouth of God is found in scripture. The word of God is passed on in both the written and oral forms in the Church.

Mark 13:31 - heaven and earth will pass away, but Jesus’ Word will not pass away. But Jesus never says anything about His Word being entirely committed to a book. Also, it took 400 years to compile the Bible, and another 1,000 years to invent the printing press. How was the Word of God communicated? Orally, by the bishops of the Church, with the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach the Gospel to every creature. But Jesus did not want this preaching to stop after the apostles died, and yet the Bible was not compiled until four centuries later. The word of God was transferred orally.

Mark 3:14; 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach (not write) the gospel to the world. Jesus gives no commandment to the apostles to write, and gives them no indication that the oral apostolic word he commanded them to communicate would later die in the fourth century. If Jesus wanted Christianity to be limited to a book (which would be finalized four centuries later), wouldn’t He have said a word about it?

Luke 10:16 - He who hears you (not “who reads your writings”), hears me. The oral word passes from Jesus to the apostles to their successors by the gracious gifts of the Holy Spirit. This succession has been preserved in the Holy Catholic Church.

Luke 24:47 - Jesus explains that repentance and forgiveness of sins must be preached (not written) in Christ’s name to all nations. For Protestants to argue that the word of God is now limited to a book (subject to thousands of different interpretations) is to not only ignore Scripture, but introduce a radical theory about how God spreads His word which would have been unbelievable to the people at the time of Jesus.

**Acts 2:3-**4 - the Holy Spirit came to the apostles in the form of “tongues” of fire so that they would “speak” (not just write) the Word.

Acts 15:27 - Judas and Silas, successors to the apostles, were sent to bring God’s infallible Word by “word of mouth.”

Rom. 10:8 - the Word is near you, on your lips and in your heart, which is the word of faith which is preached (not just written).
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Rom. 10:17** - faith comes by what is “heard” (not just read) which is the Word that is “preached” (not read). This word comes from the oral tradition of the apostles. Those in countries where the Scriptures are not available can still come to faith in Jesus Christ.

1 Cor. 15:1,11 - faith comes from what is “preached” (not read). For non-Catholics to argue that oral tradition once existed but exists no longer, they must prove this from Scripture. But no where does Scripture say oral tradition died with the apostles. To the contrary, Scripture says the oral word abides forever.

Gal. 1:11-12 - the Gospel which is “preached” (not read) to me is not a man’s Gospel, but the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Eph. 1:13 - hearing (not reading) the Word of truth is the gospel of our salvation. This is the living word in the Church’s living tradition.

Col. 1:5 - of this you have “heard” (not read) before in the word of truth, the Gospel which has come to you.

1 Thess. 2:13 - the Word of God is what you have “heard” (not read). The orally communicated word of God lasts forever, and this word is preserved within the Church by the Holy Spirit.

2 Tim. 1:13 - oral communications are protected by the Spirit. They abide forever. Oral authority does not die with the apostles.
**
2 Tim. 4:2,6-7** - Paul, at the end of his life, charges Timothy to preach (not write) the Word. Oral teaching does not die with Paul.

Titus 1:3 - God’s word is manifested “through preaching” (not writing). This “preaching” is the tradition that comes from the apostles.

1 Peter 1:25 - the Word of the Lord abides forever and that Word is the good news that was “preached” (not read) to you. Because the Word is preached by the apostles and it lasts forever, it must be preserved by the apostles’ successors, or this could not be possible. Also, because the oral word abides forever, oral apostolic tradition could not have died in the fourth century with all teachings being committed to Scripture.

2 Peter 1:12, 15 - Peter says that he will leave a “means to recall these things in mind.” But since this was his last canonical epistle, this “means to recall” must therefore be the apostolic tradition and teaching authority of his office that he left behind.
 
2 John 1:12; 3 John 13 - John prefers to speak and not to write. Throughout history, the Word of God was always transferred orally and Jesus did not change this. To do so would have been a radical departure from the Judaic tradition.
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Deut. 31:9-12** - Moses had the law read only every seven years. Was the word of God absent during the seven year interval? Of course not. The Word of God has always been given orally by God’s appointed ones, and was never limited to Scripture.

Isa. 40:8 - the grass withers, the flower fades, but the Word of our God (not necessarily written) will stand forever.

Isa. 59:21 - Isaiah prophesies the promise of a living voice to hand on the Word of God to generations by mouth, not by a book. This is either a false prophecy, or it has been fulfilled by the Catholic Church.

Joel 1:3 - tell your children of the Word of the Lord, and they tell their children, and their children tell another generation.

Mal. 2:7 - the lips of a priest guard knowledge, and we should seek instruction from his mouth. Protestants want to argue all oral tradition was committed to Scripture? But no where does Scripture say this.
 
djrakowski said:
It was more of a rhetorical question, Craig. I want ‘frodo’ to explain what I need to jettison from my Catholic belief system in order to be regarded as genuinely Christian. If it’s nothing, then there’s no need for him (or anyone else) to evangelize me or any other Catholic 🤷
On occasion, I do request the intercession of Mary, but it isn’t a cornerstore of my private devotions.
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Although there are many teachings of the Catholic church that I disagree with, I am not saying that you cannot be a catholic and be a saved Christian. What I am saying is that, no matter which church you belong to the church cannot save you. You MUST repent of your sins and turn to Jesus Christ and accept what Jesus Christ did for you on the cross to pay for your sins in your heart and believe that He genuinely died on the cross and rose from the dead, confess Him with your mouth as your Lord and Savior. The prayer that I put in this first thread sums it all up.

If you pray that prayer TO GOD, FROM YOUR HEART, you will be saved, no matter what church you belong to. I am not here to condemn catholics, I am here to share the true gospel. There is NO other way to heaven but through Christ and that is biblical. I just want to share that with you.

If you are willing to receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior please pray this right now, from your heart to God,

“Dear LORD JESUS, I believe that YOU died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, take me to heaven when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen.”

If you prayed that prayer from your heart to God, and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven when you die.
 
Gamera said:
How is that different than what I wrote? Go back and read my post again — that’s exactly what I said.
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Because you said that you are saved by Jesus through the chruch and I said that that is wrong. We are saved by Jesus through FAITH in CHRIST alone. The church has nothing to do with our salvation other than that it’s role is to point us to Christ and His word, not it’s self. Everything centers around GOD no one else and nothing more. Its all about Him and what He did for us. It doesn’t center in any way around the church.
 
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