How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[jpaul]

It’s accepted, proven, common history. Study the history of the protestant reformation, BTW, baptist didn’t come out of the catholic church, we existed along with them although underground and persecuted by catholics.

Peace and all-good!

To say that the Baptist sect “existed along with the Catholic Church although underground” is a plain fantasy and to believed it is self-deception.

The Baptist (Anabaptist) sect was the offshoot of the private Bible interpretations of Thomas Munzer of Zwickau.

Ave Maria!

jpaul

 

[Philthy]

We need the Holy Spirit to interpret scripture. No one church perfectly interprets scripture and this is seen in the many denominations…

The fact that there are numerous denominations does not mean that no church contains the truth. The possibility that one of them contains the truth remains. But more significantly, what is the point of having an inerrant Scripture if no one can definitively interpret it correctly? Im surprised that you make this claim.

frodo:

We need to prayerfully seek the Lord when interpreting scripture and He will show us the meanings in His time, not ours.

Uh, wait a second. I thought you just said no one church interprets scripture perfectly. Are you now alleging that individuals eventually interpret it perfectly? That contradicts your opening comment, I think. How, exactly, would we know that a church’s interpretation was wrong while believing that our own, or some other individual’s, is correct? That is completely illogical and unworkable and, again, useless.

frodo:

Many times it will be instantaneous, many times it will take longer, some times it takes years to understand certain things in the bible. The easiest to understand is the salvation message in the bible, yet that is the point of the most division, because the devil is a deciever. he tries to add things to the gospel, such as baptism saves

No my friend, you are sadly mistaken. The salvation message in the bible is not easy to understand and that is why there are so many divisions. Precisely because when you attempt to understand the salvation message from Scripture alone you get mixed messages. And it is not Satan that added to Scripture that baptism saves, it was the Apostle Peter who was inspired by God to do so.

frodo:

ect. to trick people from comming to the truth. he also likes to take away from the gospel by tricking folks into thinking that whatever they want to believe is ok. he also attacks the word of God, by attacking it’s truthfulness, accuracy, and even it’s authority…e.g. people who think that the church’es word trumps the word of God Himself. What a lie.

This is nothing more than a convenient rationalization to explain away the obvious problem with sola scriptura - blame it on the devil. Anyone looking at the facts would come to a very different conclusion: sola scriptura does not produce unity of doctrine. Its very, very simple.

 

[Verbum]

None of the options fill the bill entirely. Baptism gives us the ticket to heaven, which Christ our Savior has earned for us. . We have the responsibility to get there with God’s help (including the Church), but we retain our free will and the possibility of reneging Christ our Savior. Those who persevere will get in with their ticket.

Verbum

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

It’s accepted, proven, common history. Study the history of the protestant reformation, BTW, baptist didn’t come out of the catholic church, we existed along with them although underground and persecuted by catholics.

“Accepted, proven, common history,” except the only ones who “accept” it are trying to justify their personal interpretation of Scripture. And it’s “proven” because you say it is! Finally, it is “common history” to those who have an axe to grind.

Oh, you guys were the ones in the catacombs! How silly of everybody NOT to know that!

Robert

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Wow, you don’t believe the bible is God’s word? I am astounded!! You place your faith in your church?!!! I am astounded!!!

Frodo,

He didn’t say that. But what is printed for all to see doesn’t hold water with you.

Find in the Bible where it says that it is the “how to be a Christian book.” Give us the correct manuscripts to translate the NT Gospels and letters from. Please.

Where do YOU get your authority??

Robert

 

[jmcrae]

Oh, you guys were the ones in the catacombs! How silly of everybody NOT to know that!

So, all those relics of Saints, icons, Mass responses, prayers to the Saints in Heaven, and hymns to Mary were inserted into and inscribed on the walls of the Catacombs by Baptists?

 

[Church_Militant]

Oh… BTW, I registered at that forum he linked and this is e-mail is what I got before I was ever approved to post.

Account removed at (Name removed to prevent a Board Swarm)

The (Name removed to prevent a Board Swarm) to me

8:17 am (14 hours ago)
Dear Church Militant,

Unfortunately your registration at The (Name removed to prevent a Board Swarm) did not meet our membership requirements. Therefore your registration was deleted.

Sorry,
The (Name removed to prevent a Board Swarm)

My response was simply:

Dear sirs or madam,
With all due respect.
Why would that be?

I’ll be really surprised if I get an answer. Oh well…

 

[Zooey]

I chose “other” because I didn’t see ‘by the Grace of God’ as one of the choices.

Seriously. We can trust all we want in whatever we want. God’s Grace is what saves us.

That’s what makes God’s Grace so amazing!!

The Word of God is Jesus Christ. Though the Bible is word of God but it is not the source of salvation. Jesus is.

Still praying for you, Manny. God bless you for your service.

The reason that noone had the bible was that the Catholic church destroyed them and wouldn’t allow anyone to see the bible, let alone study it.

The Catholic Church is the reason you have that Bible that you are trying to use to bash people over the head. [sign1]
How about a wee “thank you” instead of all the nonsense, laddie??
[/sign1]

It was a way of controlling the people. Martin luthor was a catholic monk who realized (because he had access to the scripture) that what they were teaching didn’t line up with the word of God and that’s where the protestant reformation came from.

http://bestsmileys.com/thinking/1.gif
Do I , or do I :crying: ??? Do I http://bestsmileys.com/angry1/4.gif or do I :yawn: ???

[sign1]Ye dinnae know what ye say, yean! Ye hae been told farradiddles, & ye believed them.[/sign1]
You come in here, trumpeting that you trust the Bible alone, and then you try to send us all running to read “Foxe’s”, the “Trail of Blood”,& now Luther???

And all the time, there is no place in your wee poll for “My hope of salvation lies in the glorious, matchless, wondrous Grace of God”.
As millions live & die without ever having heard the Name above all names…You lecture those who all ready know & love Him…
I definitely vote for:
http://bestsmileys.com/crying/14.gif

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

The catholic bible is different from the protestant bible, so how do you figure that they are the reason for my bible?

 

[Church_Militant]

The catholic bible is different from the protestant bible, so how do you figure that they are the reason for my bible?

That is actually off this topic Frodo. You’d be better off to open a new thread to ask that.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

That verse does not say “If we confess our sins to Him…”. In fact, the letter of James (5:16) recommends confession to one another:

Then who was the publican confessing his sins to?

Lu 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

**If there is ONE mediator between God and men and its Jesus then who do we go to if we need to get to God? **

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

We are to confess our sins **one to another ** AND to God. To each other

Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

This question is very bad, since you are implicitly saying there are “errors” in Scripture.

I am absolutely not saying that there are errors in scripture, I am saying that you ignore the ones you don’t like and keep the ones you do.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

These assertions of yours are utterly groundless. Really. BTW, 2Pe 1:20 is a favorite text for Catholic apologists. I mean, you’ve just offered a gazillion “private interpretations” as if they were the very Gospel itself.

No, I give you verse after verse that lines up with each other and still you won’t believe.

 

[Church_Militant]

Then who was the publican confessing his sins to?

Lu 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

**If there is ONE mediator between God and men and its Jesus then who do we go to if we need to get to God? **

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

We are to confess our sins **one to another ** AND to God. To each other

Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

I am absolutely not saying that there are errors in scripture, I am saying that you ignore the ones you don’t like and keep the ones you do.

Then why do you ignore this passage as well?

John 20: 21-23
21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

 

[Church_Militant]

No, I give you verse after verse that lines up with each other and still you won’t believe.

Not so… We just don’t believe your particular fallible interpretation of them. Or are you going to assert that you (or your pastor, or Martin Luther, or Trail of Blood), are infallible?

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

How do you explain this?

---

You must have used a catholic interpretation of that passege. The problem with it is the translators are slanted.

2Pe 1:20 (KJV) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:20 (NKJV) knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
2Pe 1:20 (MKJV) knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture came into being of [its] own private interpretation.
2Pe 1:20 (ASV) knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation.
2Pe 1:20 (YLT) this first knowing, that no prophecy of the Writing doth come of private exposition,
2Pe 1:20 (BBE) Being conscious in the first place that no man by himself may give a special sense to the words of the prophets.
2Pe 1:20 (DBY) knowing this first, that [the scope of] no prophecy of scripture is had from its own particular interpretation,
2Pe 1:20 (RSV) First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,
2Pe 1:20 (WEB) knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of private interpretation.
2Pe 1:20 (MNT) But first be assured of this–that no prophecy of Scripture is of private interpretation.
2Pe 1:20 (TCNT) But first be assured of this:–There is no prophetic teaching found in Scripture that can be interpreted by man’s unaided reason;
2Pe 1:20 (WNT) But, above all, remember that no prophecy in Scripture will be found to have come from the prophet’s own prompting;

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Not so… We just don’t believe your particular fallible interpretation of them. Or are you going to assert that you (or your pastor, or Martin Luther, or Trail of Blood), are infallible?

Is your church infallable? I say no.

 

[Church_Militant]

Is your church infallable? I say no.

That really doesn’t matter. I have shown you straight from the Word of God and from history where you are wrong. Why do you cling to things that have been proven wrong with the Word of God and facts?

You cannot trace any apostolic succession from the Baptist church to the apostles and Christ…it’s not there.

You can do that with the Catholic Church using verifiable history and not baseless propaganda.

I have supported every aspect of Catholic teaching that you have challenged using the Word of God without any mental or theological gymnastics, and all you have done so far is deny that it is true but have yet to prove any of it.

Listen carefully to the Holy Spirit Frodo and hear what He is saying to you. You will hear Him say the same thing that Our Lord said to St. Paul on the road to Damascus. “…It is hard for thee to kick against the goad.” (Acts 9:5 & 26:14)

 

[Church_Militant]

You must have used a catholic interpretation of that passege. The problem with it is the translators are slanted.

2Pe 1:20 (KJV) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:20 (NKJV) knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
2Pe 1:20 (MKJV) knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture came into being of [its] own private interpretation.
2Pe 1:20 (ASV) knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation.
2Pe 1:20 (YLT) this first knowing, that no prophecy of the Writing doth come of private exposition,
2Pe 1:20 (BBE) Being conscious in the first place that no man by himself may give a special sense to the words of the prophets.
2Pe 1:20 (DBY) knowing this first, that [the scope of] no prophecy of scripture is had from its own particular interpretation,
2Pe 1:20 (RSV) First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,

2Pe 1:20 (WEB) knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of private interpretation.
2Pe 1:20 (MNT) But first be assured of this–that no prophecy of Scripture is of private interpretation.
2Pe 1:20 (TCNT) But first be assured of this:–There is no prophetic teaching found in Scripture that can be interpreted by man’s unaided reason;
2Pe 1:20 (WNT) But, above all, remember that no prophecy in Scripture will be found to have come from the prophet’s own prompting;I use that one all the time…and Douay-Rheims, which came out 2 years before that KJV that you love so much.

 

[JimG]

Church Militant asked about this passage, which you seem to have ignored:

John 20: 21-23

He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.