Hugo Chavez, fiery Venezuelan leader, dies at 58

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I think a lot of anti-Americans have never forgiven you for the help you gave us during the Second World War.

On the other hand, if you could hear how big-mouthed and arrogant (and downright disrespectful to everyone else who fought in the war) some of the “we saved the world” and “you should be humbly grateful” stuff sounds sometimes, you would understand how even people who aren’t anti-American can take real exception to it.
I don’t judge all the British by the treatment I got from many. One of my memories is sitting in a fish and chips pub and talking about the castles we had seen. The people at the next table began loudly imitating my American accent and began to discuss “caaastles” among themselves. Sorry, CAHSTLES. 😊

BTW, most Americans love foreign accents, especially British.
 
. My point being that Americans
did not win WW II ALONE. but made up up the bulk of allied forces in both theaters…
Then we are in complete agreement.
. I think alot of anti-Americans try to minimize American contributions in both world wars and the cold war.
That was certainly not my intent. My apologies if that was not clear.

While I appreciate that you may have grown weary of America bashing, I would also like to caution you about hastily arriiving at the conclusion that somebody is anti-american.

The reason why I advise caution is because such a reaction will be exploited by the truly anti-American (and anti-Peace too) as a technique of divide and conquer.

I was appalled by some of the comments on RT today posted in response to the story of North Korea’s belligerent threats.

They were ghoulish and blood thirsty.

Now those &^%&$%£$s *really *HATE you and hate us too.

If you are curious and have a strong stomach go and see. But be warned. It is just awful.

And they would love to splinter the enduring alliance of our peoples.

I don’t think any American here is under the delusion that the British and other Europeans would stand by while America was under attack, do you?

No. I really don’t imagine you do.

And one of the great things anout being part of the Church is that it trumps politics, nationality and differences of opinion on how we want to organise our economies.

Another great thing about being part of the Church is the teachings of charity and forgiveness,

And you reminded me of that in your earlier post

And so, my apolgies if I was uncharitable or obtuse.

Peace and God Bless.

JB

PS. I thank you for your fine debate and would love, perhaps on another thread, to share our points of view concerning the issue that I raised.
 
I was unaware that Chavez stood tall against our imperial president, Obama. This is news to me. Anyway, Chavez was a murderous thug who will not be missed. :cool: Rob
.

Do not speak ill of the dead
 
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Prodigal_Son1:
From your link:
Caracas, Venezuela, Mar 6, 2013 / 12:01 pm (CNA).- A source in Venezuela has revealed to CNA that President Hugo Chavez died “in bosom of the Church” and received spiritual direction and the sacraments in his last days…
That is, according to an unnamed source (I’m assuming from within his former administration).

Did you read the rest of the article?
Ever since he assumed power in 1999, Chavez butted heads continuously with the Catholic Church over statements by the bishops warning of the risks and excesses of his Socialist agenda. In 2002, Chavez accused the Venezuelan bishops of being a “tumor” for his revolutionary goals and demanded that the Vatican not intervene in the internal affairs of the country.
I was no fan of the man, but I do hope he died in the bosom of the Church, and received sacraments. He certainly persecuted His Church while he was alive, but heaven rejoices when a sinner repents.
 
Then we are in complete agreement.

That was certainly not my intent. My apologies if that was not clear.

While I appreciate that you may have grown weary of America bashing, I would also like to caution you about hastily arriiving at the conclusion that somebody is anti-american.

The reason why I advise caution is because such a reaction will be exploited by the truly anti-American (and anti-Peace too) as a technique of divide and conquer.

I was appalled by some of the comments on RT today posted in response to the story of North Korea’s belligerent threats.

They were ghoulish and blood thirsty.

Now those &^%&$%£$s *really *HATE you and hate us too.

If you are curious and have a strong stomach go and see. But be warned. It is just awful.

And they would love to splinter the enduring alliance of our peoples.

I don’t think any American here is under the delusion that the British and other Europeans would stand by while America was under attack, do you?

No. I really don’t imagine you do.

And one of the great things anout being part of the Church is that it trumps politics, nationality and differences of opinion on how we want to organise our economies.

Another great thing about being part of the Church is the teachings of charity and forgiveness,

And you reminded me of that in your earlier post

And so, my apolgies if I was uncharitable or obtuse.

Peace and God Bless.

JB

PS. I thank you for your fine debate and would love, perhaps on another thread, to share our points of view concerning the issue that I raised.
Thank you for your gracious response. I think perhaps I was too hasty in my characterization of you being un-American, my ire was with limerickman, if you go back
and read his posts, he was the one who was putting down Americia.
I would love to have another debate with you, name the thread and what you want to debate. Contact me, and I will be ready. One thing though, if we have another September
11th, I don’t think that there is much Europe can do because their militaries are too
small. BTW, N. Korea is just as bad as Iran. Threatening Israel. It’s not the large powers
that worry me,(Russia,China) but the smaller ones with madmen leaders with nukes.(Iran,
N.Korea.)
Anyway, God Bless and looking forward to hearing from you.
 
From your link:

That is, according to an unnamed source (I’m assuming from within his former administration).

Did you read the rest of the article?

I was no fan of the man, but I do hope he died in the bosom of the Church, and received sacraments. He certainly persecuted His Church while he was alive, but heaven rejoices when a sinner repents.
I read the article, in full. I wouldn’t have posted it if I had not. Because of the hope in me, I look for the positive and not the negative. It is my hope, and prayer, that he be worthy of the promises of Christ. I pray that for ANY human being.

None of us know the intent of his heart at the time of his death. The Church teaches hope. We pray for all people, or should. The Church doesn’t teach speaking ill of ANYONE.
 
As Saint Paul states, in all things, God works for the good. This includes Hugo Chavez.
 
Let’s look at the links that you posted
This link is from tel aviv university.:rolleyes:
The Tablet describes itself as “a new read on Jewish life”:rolleyes:
William Kristol : He’s Jewish, as well as holding extremist viewpoints with regard to ideologies who he disagrees with.
South African Jewish publication :rolleyes:
Hmmm. This site appears to be a neo-con site. You reckon it’s impartial? I don’t.
Wikipedia : the site that publishes information unchecked :rolleyes:
Yup, as it clearly says in my profile. Why do you ask?
Just clarifying that you are in fact Jewish.
It helps explain your baseless charge of anti semitism.

I won’t be exchanging posts with you further.
 
A tangent on a tangent indeed.:eek:😃

The question you are responding to was

If this is not true, then why did Churchill beg both Roosevelt and Stalin. If Britain didn’t need America why did he ask?

But that was in response to my post that suggested that some Americans “may have learned”

1) You were responsible for the defeat of Nazi Germany.

This in no way suggested that America’s aid was not needed.

So his response is a non-sequitor and a creation of a strawman argument.

America was one of the allies and along with The British Commonwealth (Australia etc), Russia and beyond the “big three” were over a dozen other allied countries.

It is NOT ungrateful to say that America was only part of the effort that saved the world from the Third Reich. In fact it acknowledges the sacrifice mad by all the allied nations.
FWIW, Stalingrad was the turning point of WWII in my opinion.

On a scale of events that changed WWII, Stalingrad takes precedence followed by the Battle of Britain.

Both of these events showed that the Allies when attacked on their own territory, Britain and the USSR respectively repelled the enemy and emboldened the Allies to go on to prevail in WWII.

The sacrifice of Soviet lives in the defeat of Nazi Germany is beyond belief.
 
FWIW, Stalingrad was the turning point of WWII in my opinion.

On a scale of events that changed WWII, Stalingrad takes precedence followed by the Battle of Britain.

Both of these events showed that the Allies when attacked on their own territory, Britain and the USSR respectively repelled the enemy and emboldened the Allies to go on to prevail in WWII.

The sacrifice of Soviet lives in the defeat of Nazi Germany is beyond belief.
Without D-day and the invasion of Italy, the second front which Stalin begged for since 1942,
would not have been possible as England did not have the manpower to do both invasions on their own…
Oh BTW, if we hadn’t done those two invasions the eastern front would have been a stalemate.
 
Let’s look at the links that you posted
You obviously didn’t do that.

  1. *]You didn’t even attempt to refute any of the points made by them- because you can’t.
    *]You were “surprisingly” selective in the ones you chose to bring.
    *]You completely ignored the numerous sources that don’t fit your preconceived- and clearly biased, position.

    Again, you “missed these”, for instance:

    "Why Hugo Chávez hates Jews: New book explores roots of anti-Semitism in Venezuela", by Alexander Nazaryan, a review of Claudio Lomnitz and Rafael Sánchez’s book, “Chávez, Jews and the Left”.

    "Venezuela’s Jews Fear More Attacks As Chavez’ Anti-Israel Campaign Intensifies", by Fabiola Sanchez in the Huff Post.

    I also pointed out that the Forbes article was written by Michael Rowan and Douglas E. Schoen, political consultants and writers who have lived or worked in Venezuela since 1993.

    Michael Rowan was a political consultant for Democrats from 30 states from 1970 to 1990 including Senators Gravel of Alaska, Metzenbaum of Ohio, Riegle of Michigan, Moss of Utah, Cranston of California, Pell of Rhode Island and Moynihan of New York; and Representatives Lantos of California, Swett of New Hampshire, Skelton of Missouri, Carr of Michigan and Manton of New York.

    Douglas E. Schoen has been one of the most influential Democratic campaign consultants for over thirty years, graduated magna cum laude from Harvard College, and is a graduate of Harvard Law School. He has his doctorate in philosophy from Oxford University in England.

    He has lectured at Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania, the Institute of Politics at the Harvard University John F. Kennedy School of Government, and the School of International and Public Affairs at Columbia University.

    Can you refute the content?
    This link is from tel aviv university
    An academic institution. How horrible! Bad, bad people believe in education- right?

    tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2009/venezuela.html
    tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2008/venezuela.html
    tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2007/venezuela.html
    tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2006/venezuela.htm
    tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2005/venezuela.htm

    Can you refute the content?
    The Tablet describes itself as “a new read on Jewish life”
    Can you refute the content?
    William Kristol : He’s Jewish, as well as holding extremist viewpoints with regard to ideologies who he disagrees with.
    Can you refute the content?
    South African Jewish publication
    Can you refute the content?
    Hmmm. This site appears to be a neo-con site. You reckon it’s impartial? I don’t.
    Gee. That’s REALLY odd because as I mentioned earlier, it is from a liberal blog. The editor and founder isn’t Jewish as far as I know, and it is an instrument of The Center for American Progress, a progressive public policy research and advocacy organization led by Neera Tanden (parents were from India), who worked for the Obama and Clinton administrations and for Hillary Clinton’s campaigns.

    Now, can you refute the content?
    Wikipedia : the site that publishes information unchecked
    And as I suggested earlier, why not follow the links provided and try to refute the content?
    Just clarifying that you are in fact Jewish.
    It helps explain your baseless charge of anti semitism.
    And how would you explain all of those charges of anti-Semitism from the non-Jewish sources above. You don’t. You obviously can’t.
    I won’t be exchanging posts with you further.
    Attaboy! Never let cold hard facts get in the way. 👍
 
While I am very very alert to anti-semitism (especially neo-nazis and the like) I think that stories of Chavez’s anti-semitism have been wildly exagerratd in order to smear him.

This is merely wikipedia but there is a fairly good summary and it has references to external links.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Venezuela#Accusations_of_Ch.C3.A1vez_anti-Semitism

By comparison, the anti-semitism in other leaders around the world goes unnoticed and ignored: Saudi Arabia.

I think we all know why.😉
 
And how would you explain all of those charges of anti-Semitism from the non-Jewish sources above. You don’t. You obviously can’t.
Didn’t you know? It takes a real “not-anti-semitic” person to authoritatively list which particular negative behaviors Jews are prone to.

If there’s one thing that tells you someone isn’t anti-semitic, it’s that. :rolleyes:
 
Without D-day and the invasion of Italy, the second front which Stalin begged for since 1942,
would not have been possible as England did not have the manpower to do both invasions on their own…
Oh BTW, if we hadn’t done those two invasions the eastern front would have been a stalemate.
Indeed the American forces involved in D day were almost as many (over 70 tousand men) as the British (over 80 000) that landed tat day on Normandy IIRC.
 
While I am very very alert to anti-semitism (especially neo-nazis and the like) I think that stories of Chavez’s anti-semitism have been wildly exagerratd in order to smear him.
While I am very alert to the fact that many want to smear Chavez, clearly, some of it is justified. Accusations of his virulent anti-Semitism come from the entire political and religious spectrum, and I have heard first-hand accounts from Jews who have fled Venezuela. It is no mere coincidence that such a huge percentage (20%) of Venezuelan Jews have fled. Many others bought apartments in Miami and elsewhere- just in case.
This is merely wikipedia but there is a fairly good summary and it has references to external links.
That is merely the tip of the iceberg. Follow the links that I provided above.
By comparison, the anti-semitism in other leaders around the world goes unnoticed and ignored: Saudi Arabia.I think we all know why.😉
I don’t think it goes unnoticed, but since all Jews were ethnically cleansed from Arabia long ago, it doesn’t have the same impact.

In general, feel free to do a search of my posts and see how seldom I have accused people of anti-Semitism; almost never out of nearly 750 posts.

Even more than that: I have been known to strongly support those who I feel have wrongly been accused of anti-Semitism- like Pope Pius XII, who I believe was responsible for saving hundreds of thousands of Jews during WWII (risking his own life too) while the rest of the world, including Western leaders, did nothing.

Chavez was an anti-Semite.
 
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