Hugo Chavez, fiery Venezuelan leader, dies at 58

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october_baby said:
You really seem misinformed about Americans,some of the worst haters I’ve met
were English are you and Limerickman English? :confused:
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For the record it’s mostly the British intellectual peasantry* that is anti-American. They can be particularly prone to picking on anybody they think they’re allowed to shamefully abuse and heap scorn and prejudice on with impunity.

Experience leads me to believe American intellectual peasantry, and indeed the same folk from every culture - is largely the same - I’ve observed it in American versions of “proactive atheists” among other things. Some people are forever searching for an N-word they are allowed to use - some species of untermensch they can dehumanize - whilst at the same time pretending to be a stand-up individual.

I try to gently correct such irrational prejudice where I find it, and set an example where people might draw from it, but it’s not easy, y’know?

*A term I use to suggest a wilful ignorance in chosen behaviour, not an intrinsic status or quality of a person.
iamrefreshed said:
Europe is to blame for most of today’s problems. We’re mopping up your mess.😉
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Oh, come now.
humble gratitude
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Oh for goodness’ sake. One might just as well lament Americans’ lack of humble gratitude to Stalin’s Russia for saving them during the Second World War. It would be no less incendiary and no less supportable! Let’s not go there.

There is in fact room for mutual respect but it requires putting ourselves in the others’ shoes for a moment. Some of us remember how many beachheads were American, and see the graves of all those American boys, and are sad and thankful for their fighting like lions and their sacrifice and just… God bless them. Just as well though, we remember that there was lots of that war happening in our towns, villages and countryside, and that many brave men and women fought to the death just as courageously as any other, and many people were shot and dumped in holes and/or subjected the most sickening acts of evil imaginable before the Russians and Americans gave military assistance (and after, unfortunately).

The first is a reason to be grateful for so many Americans who bravely fought and died and to honour them with our own, and the second makes it a bit rich for American civilians to tell us what the Second World War was about, to act like it was fought exclusively by Americans, or to act in a manner that seems disrespectful to those who died who were not American.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I have this sense that the people in your family or mine who fought in Europe during that war might rebuke us in earthy terms for talking flippantly about humble gratitude we do not really understand.

As long as we stay mindful of the dignity of humanity, and the scale of suffering and sacrifice and murder that happened during the Second World War, it is very easy not to bicker about it and insult each other.

Anyway, I think I’m going to leave it there, because I have just realised we are completely off topic! :rolleyes:
 
This thread is funny.

I have noticed here on CAF that Europe gets “attacked” more than any other continent or country in the world. People “attack” Europe even on threads that have got nothing to do with Europe as a whole. Such is very common on CAF. I personally don’t see that as hate though. To hate is huge.

If someone “attacks” America, then that’s the person’s opinion. No one here speaks for an entire nation or continent.

IMO, I am seeing a sense of fear of freedom of expression on here. Freedom of expression that you don’t like doesn’t mean hate. And there is double standards here because if it were a cartoon about Islam, we would hear all sorts of things about the 1st Amendment. Freedom of expression is not a one way street.

The whole thing makes me think of how people are being labelled as hatas for opposing gay marriage.

If someone does not like anything about America, then that’s the person’s view. Why should it trouble anyone?

And if you don’t like someone “attacking” your country, complaining and “attacking” the person’s country in return doesn’t make any sense to me.

PS: I know I have used the word “attack” but I generally do not see a mere or persistent opposition to a policy or policies of another country as an attack though.
 
ephesians4 said:
Nothing I said could even vaguely be construed otherwise, so I don’t know why the question, really. 🙂

Surely you can generally assume people respect your freedom to live as you wish until something suggests otherwise. 👍
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My question was largely rhetorical, hence the use of the question tag form.

Howver, it is worth asking for confirmation when one is facing a thread with talk of Americans being “the chosen race”, hypothetical talk of conquering Europe etcetera
 
ephesians4 said:
For the record it’s mostly the British intellectual peasantry* that is anti-American. They can be particularly prone to picking on anybody they think they’re allowed to shamefully abuse and heap scorn and prejudice on with impunity.

Experience leads me to believe American intellectual peasantry, and indeed the same folk from every culture - is largely the same - I’ve observed it in American versions of “proactive atheists” among other things. Some people are forever searching for an N-word they are allowed to use - some species of untermensch they can dehumanize - whilst at the same time pretending to be a stand-up individual.
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While I appreciated much of what you posted in the latter half of this post, I must admit to being a little uncomfortable about my user name being linked to the word “peasantry” and comparisons with "proactive atheists.:dts:

Just as I object to the accusation of being anti-American.

It seems impossible to keep this thread on topic while ones name gets dragged through the mud.
 
Limerickman said:
R.I.P. Hugo Chavez.

An opponent of the filthy American imperialist project has passed away and for that I am sad.

He was correct to oppose all things American in my opinion.
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Just a reminder on who took this thread where it went. A European.😛
 
october_baby said:
1.If this is not true, then why did Churchill beg both Roosevelt and Stalin. If Britain didn’t need America why did he ask?
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He wanted help to stop Germany from doing the exact thing Britain was doing at the time. Colonizing other nations. In 1941 Britain had occupying forces in countless countries. Apparently, what was good for the goose wasn’t good for the gander!😛
 
Northumbrian said:
While I appreciated much of what you posted in the latter half of this post, I must admit to being a little uncomfortable about my user name being linked to the word “peasantry” and comparisons with "proactive atheists.:dts:

Just as I object to the accusation of being anti-American.

It seems impossible to keep this thread on topic while ones name gets dragged through the mud.
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Once again, you’re responding to an inference that doesn’t make any sense given the post.

No doubt you’re not doing it intentionally, but rest assured I did not associate your name with any such thing, and I did not accuse you of being anti-American. 🙂
iamrefreshed said:
He wanted help to stop Germany from doing the exact thing Britain was doing at the time. Colonizing other nations. In 1941 Britain had occupying forces in countless countries. Apparently, what was good for the goose wasn’t good for the gander!😛
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Wow.
 
iamrefreshed said:
He wanted help to stop Germany from doing the exact thing Britain was doing at the time. Colonizing other nations. In 1941 Britain had occupying forces in countless countries. Apparently, what was good for the goose wasn’t good for the gander!😛
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A tangent on a tangent indeed.:eek:😃

The question you are responding to was

If this is not true, then why did Churchill beg both Roosevelt and Stalin. If Britain didn’t need America why did he ask?

But that was in response to my post that suggested that some Americans “may have learned”

1) You were responsible for the defeat of Nazi Germany.

This in no way suggested that America’s aid was not needed.

So his response is a non-sequitor and a creation of a strawman argument.

America was one of the allies and along with The British Commonwealth (Australia etc), Russia and beyond the “big three” were over a dozen other allied countries.

It is NOT ungrateful to say that America was only part of the effort that saved the world from the Third Reich. In fact it acknowledges the sacrifice mad by all the allied nations.
 
Northumbrian said:
So his response is a non-sequitor and a creation of a strawman argument.
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No argument here. Just showing those here throwing around the term American Imperialism that there were some good teachers out there.

Falklands anyone?😃
 
iamrefreshed said:
No argument here. Just showing those here throwing around the term American Imperialism that there were some good teachers out there.

Falklands anyone?😃
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Oh look, this is almost on topic!

Presumably you mean Spanish imperialism rather than Argentinian imperialism, as there has never, ever been an Argentinian population on the islands, the population of which is not from Argentina and predates the existence of Argentina, as well as Argentina’s protracted expansionist slaughter and annexation of the surrounding area.
  • or do you mean the Argentinians’ precipitation of an illegal war on land that they have no legitimate claim to, against a culture older than their country, to overrule the self-determination of the entire population there, to try and mitigate internal political problems? If so, then yes the lead is well taken.
 
Northumbrian said:
Seconding Veronica’s thanks:)

I imagine all Catholics welcome this news.👍
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If it is to be taken at face value it is good, in the face of rumours of his involvement in local pagan religion which would have to be considered quashed (or if true, repaired).
 
ephesians4 said:
If it is to be taken at face value it is good, in the face of rumours of his involvement in local pagan religion which would have to be considered quashed.
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On your authority?

I personally have more faith in the judgement of the Church.

Luke 15:4
 
ephesians4 said:
If it is to be taken at face value it is good, in the face of rumours of his involvement in local pagan religion.
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The fact of the matter is, and the Church teaches, we cannot know the intent of anyone’s heart, during their life, or at the time of their death. There is only one Judge, and He can see beyond ‘face value.’
O my Jesus, forgive us our sins.
Save us from the fires of Hell;
lead all souls into Heaven,
especially those in most need of Thy mercy.
Amen.
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YKohen said:
Ignorance is very sad. Willfull ignorance is worse. Let’s try again:

"Why Hugo Chávez hates Jews: New book explores roots of anti-Semitism in Venezuela", by Alexander Nazaryan, a review of Claudio Lomnitz and Rafael Sánchez’s book, “Chávez, Jews and the Left”.
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Help me slay some ignorance, YKohen. I checked on one of the links you provided above, and it explains that some of the information disseminated in Venezuela about Jewish people depicts Jews as wanting to take over the world, and that powerful Jews do so with their international banking, etc. I never know how to respond to this charge, because I cannot find an accurate, unbiased article on the topic.

It is understandable that people would come to resent a self-serving banking system that controls currencies and acts independently of the needs of the populace, and is foreign-controlled, pulling wealth away from citizenry. Even if all the talk about some very wealthy Jewish people controlling the world’s banks is true, that such truths lead to prejudice against the Jewish fellow on the street is ridiculous. Indeed, if such truths lead to resentment against the bankers themselves, then forgiveness and understanding on the part of the Christian person who resents is certainly called for, not dissemination of information that provokes anger and resentment.

Have you run across a good article on the topic?
 
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