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Della
Guest
Abuse is hardly limited to Catholic institutions. Britain’s public schools were hotbeds of abuse of all kinds, and no one batted an eyelash over it.
Abuse has gone on for a good long time in a good many places, not just Catholic ones.
What happened in the past cannot be changed. That the Church has taken and continues to take steps to stamp out this kind of abuse, is what matters now.
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Rosebud77
Guest
This is the worst kind of answer that can be made, frankly.
A young curate once boasted on these lines to me ; that “we did not do badly compared to others eg the scouts”
As I explained to him very carefully, it is far far worse when “we” are guilty than for anyone else as We are supposed to teach and set example.
And no; what matters is our penitence and our open and visible support for all who have suffered so terribly in the Name of Jesus.
Not this insouciance and complacency.
So many victims still alive, or with family whose lives were destroyed by abuse. People still caring for mothers who suffer PTSD… You cannot just sweep them under the carpet like this.
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Bonnie
Guest
Shakespeare said it well:
For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;
Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds.
Can’t forget what Jesus said: “And to every one to whom much has been given, much shall be required from him.” Luke 12:48
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twf
Guest
What happened here is beyond terrible…and those involved should be punished.
That being said, I can’t help but notice that the author of this article tries to paint the Pope Emeritus in a bad light while giving a pass to Pope Francis…the final sentence:
That being said, I can’t help but notice that the author of this article tries to paint the Pope Emeritus in a bad light while giving a pass to Pope Francis…the final sentence:
The reality, often ignored by the media, is that Pope Benedict tightened the Church’s stance on this issue and defrocked HUNDREDS of priests guilty of sexual abuse. I see NO evidence that Pope Francis has taken this issue more seriously than Benedict did…I don’t know where that narrative comes from.
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Stylteralmaldo
Guest
Along these lines, our former archbishop used a similar excuse something to the effect of ‘our rate of pedophilia is lower than the national average compared to…’. And then a short time later was caught paying off a gay lover using Archdiocesan funds. That didn’t go over very well. The priesthood does need to set a higher standard precisely since they are our shepherds. And since they are, we need to continually pray for them, lest they go astray.
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Kaliaa
Guest
Agreed we need to pray for everyone involved in these heinous acts including the many non-Catholic pastors who have been involved in this kind of thing as well. Catholics by far are not alone in these horrible acts. We don’t hear about them as much because, I think, there are so many different denominations. However, the studies are out there concerning this problem.
So lets all pray not just for those in the Catholic church and this latest episode but for all clergy who have committed these kind of acts.
So lets all pray not just for those in the Catholic church and this latest episode but for all clergy who have committed these kind of acts.
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St_Francis
Guest
What can we say? People bring this up to me from time to time, and I don’t know what to say, since in discussions with someone close to me, the answer you criticize has been rejected.
Sometimes the bringing up is serious and thoughtful; sometimes it’s just another “Catholic-bashing,” and I feel the answer to each kind should be different.
But what can one say?
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Della
Guest
It is not complacency to point out that this is a human problem, not merely a religious problem. Of course those responsible should be punished, but again, the Church has recognized it, and has and is doing what can be done to stamp it out–as I also stated.
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abucs
Guest
For me the thing that never gets explained by anyone of authority is how this could have happened in the church.
Yes I accept it happens outside the church but something must have seriously gone wrong inside the church in seminaries and in formation for it to have entered the church.
If this has not been conceded, analysed and explained then how can we be sure it has ended and not just gone underground?
Recent reports at the Vatican of a drug fuelled gay orgy at a the residence of a secretary for cardinal Francesco Coccopalmerio, whose department is responsible for dealing with sexual abuse, does not fill me with assurance.
How could this have happened? Why did it get inside the church in so many places?
I don’t know that people like cardinal Francesco Coccopalmerio (probably retiring) are best placed to give such explanations as firstly he has to explain the above situation at his secretaries residence (a man he recommended for bishop) and then justify the fidelity of his own department in dealing with sexual abuse in the church.
Yes I accept it happens outside the church but something must have seriously gone wrong inside the church in seminaries and in formation for it to have entered the church.
If this has not been conceded, analysed and explained then how can we be sure it has ended and not just gone underground?
Recent reports at the Vatican of a drug fuelled gay orgy at a the residence of a secretary for cardinal Francesco Coccopalmerio, whose department is responsible for dealing with sexual abuse, does not fill me with assurance.
How could this have happened? Why did it get inside the church in so many places?
I don’t know that people like cardinal Francesco Coccopalmerio (probably retiring) are best placed to give such explanations as firstly he has to explain the above situation at his secretaries residence (a man he recommended for bishop) and then justify the fidelity of his own department in dealing with sexual abuse in the church.
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Della
Guest
Who do you think Satan wants to destroy more than the Catholic priesthood, Father? Who better to ruin in the eyes of the world than those who administer Christ’s holy sacraments? I think it is obvious how it happened. Satan doing all he can as his time gets shorter to do as much damage to Christ’s Church as he can.
On the local level, parishes are quite aware of the dangers now. People are vetted like never before if they wish to be involved in any parish ministry. Seminaries are being much more careful about candidates, as well.
Satan seems to have ravaged a whole generation’s worth of priests and religious–all leading up to the laxity we saw after Vatican II, when many, who had wanted to toss out the Church’s morality, began their work of deconstruction on every level, using the Council as their excuse. Another work of Satan that got no press, but is a root cause of all the suffering, and the ruining of the Church’s reputation.
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abucs
Guest
ok so does that mean the church was not scrutinizing their priests as strongly as they should have been?
Why was this and why was the outcome of this not recognised and repulsed from the church more quickly? Accepting the argument about the devil, the church is 2000 years old, we are supposed to reflect the goodness of 'God and recognise evil for what it is.
(I appreciate your answers and God bless).
Why was this and why was the outcome of this not recognised and repulsed from the church more quickly? Accepting the argument about the devil, the church is 2000 years old, we are supposed to reflect the goodness of 'God and recognise evil for what it is.
(I appreciate your answers and God bless).
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sugarmouse
Guest
How about, “What an awful news story. I hope all of those boys got the help they needed to recover, and that those men are brought to justice.”
It’s fine to bring up facts about statistics. But only AFTER we’ve acknowledged that this is a terrible thing that happened, and that there’s no excuse for it.
The OP posted this news story, and literally the first reply was, “Well, let’s keep this in perspective, the Catholic Church doesn’t do this more than any other group”. No acknowledgement was made about how awful the story was, just an immediate attempt to downplay blame against the Church.
We often do this with regards to abortion, I’ve noticed. Someone will ask, “What about rape?” and the person will immediately answer, “Well, that’s only 1% of abortions, and anyway we don’t kill someone for their father’s crimes.” Yes, that’s true, but the very first thing should be to acknowledge that rape is a terrible crime, and that being pregnant from rape is an extremely difficult situation. Otherwise, the person will assume that the pro-lifer doesn’t care about women who’ve been raped, only about justifying their position on abortion.
Same thing here. If the first thing we do is try to downplay what happened, then people are going to assume that we care more about defending the Church than about the kids abused by priests, and that’s just wrong.
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St_Francis
Guest
That makes a lot of sense. I guess I didn’t think about that because with my close friend, I had expressed that these were terrible crimes and covering up.
Thanks!
po18guy
Well-known member
The BBC, like all media, is using a tragic past against the Church’s present. What can the Church do now, 60 years past, except offer condolences, counseling and monetary remuneration to those yet living? New safeguards are in place and new scrutiny has been applied. Too late for some and of course, this should never have happened - but it did.
The ‘sexual revolution’ affected the entire world and look at its fruits: child abuse, millions aborted, rampant promiscuity, marriages ruined, multiplication of sexually transmitted diseases, the utter degradation of women, despair, suicide. You will know them by their fruits.
Has their been inexplicable laxity in all aspects of the Church? Yes, and this is one of the worst aspects. Failure to catechize, bowing to the Zeitgeist, lowering standards, false ecumenism, distorted liturgy, insipid music - the evil one’s corrosive influences and attacks do not cease.
We laity must do our part and a goodly part of that is to pray daily that the Bishops will stand firm and make the difficult decisions that have always faced the Church.
The ‘sexual revolution’ affected the entire world and look at its fruits: child abuse, millions aborted, rampant promiscuity, marriages ruined, multiplication of sexually transmitted diseases, the utter degradation of women, despair, suicide. You will know them by their fruits.
Has their been inexplicable laxity in all aspects of the Church? Yes, and this is one of the worst aspects. Failure to catechize, bowing to the Zeitgeist, lowering standards, false ecumenism, distorted liturgy, insipid music - the evil one’s corrosive influences and attacks do not cease.
We laity must do our part and a goodly part of that is to pray daily that the Bishops will stand firm and make the difficult decisions that have always faced the Church.
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phil19034
Guest
Honestly, because active homosexuals and active homosexual pedophiles learned how to hide in the priesthood & among some groups of religious sisters.
By becoming a priest or religious sister, a homosexual at that time could hide in plain sight. No one would question the reason they were single. And if/when they would see other priests or sisters at homosexual hangouts, then they could “organize” together.
Homosexuals at that time were very used to “living inside the closet” and they were used to knowing to ask probing questions to identify other homosexuals.
Then, you have the pedophiles which were a whole other story… Pedophiles are everywhere, and more and more are in the public school system today.
But either way, both groups were able to hide in the priesthood. But let’s not forget, pedophiles hide everywhere and at that time many active homosexuals (who were not Catholic priests or religious) would still marry members of the opposite sex so they could hide in plain sight.
One good thing about homosexuality becoming accepted by secular society is that most homosexual males will no longer view the priesthood as a place to hide.
I remember a line from the movie “The Devil’s Advocate” which I think is very accurate. “Lawyers are today’s priesthood.” The devil used focusing lots of his energies on corrupting priests. And while he still does, it seems he is focusing a lot more energy on lawyers today. Because it’s the lawyers who are attacking religious liberty and it’s the lawyers who are most active in trying bring down the Church (whether the lawyers are attorneys, judges, politicians, or in the media).
Let us pray for our priests. They need our prayers more than we know.
God bless!
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pianistclare
Guest
Very true.
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Bonnie
Guest
My husband tends to defend the priests/Church, while I’m yelling, “But didn’t anyone realize that it’s a sin to abuse children?” If two Catholics can’t come to agreement on this, I can imagine what the non-Catholic thinks when he hears people say that the Church is no worse than any other organization. Damned with faint praise - by it’s own people.
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abucs
Guest
I don’t know, but I would suspect this also.
If so, would you agree that the church should make this transparent?
I think simply giving an apology without at least attempting explanations is really not good enough. It looks too much like the church is just expected to forget this as quickly as possible without proper reflection and remedy which is a dangerous situation.
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ctb95
Guest
I agree. The Church has had its fair share of criticism, and rightly so. But to point out that this occurs in other institutions is perfectly fine. People seem to make the assumption that abuse is only a “Catholic problem” and that most priests are pedophiles. This is simply not true. It hurts not only the vast majority of holy priests, but also abuse victims in areas outside the Church, since most of the public focus seems to be disproportionately on the Church.
Also, this is not a new story.
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