I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me

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Speaking for myself, if you tell me you have a concealed handgun license and are carrying (and of course, once I verify the license), it is almost a guarantee you are not getting a ticket, unless you did something blatantly unsafe. Basically because you are obviously a law abiding citizen who is taking an active step to ensure your and your family’s safety, which I can certainly relate to, and that you’ve extended a courtesy for my safety.
First off, thank you for your service.

The cops here are pretty cool about it too because carrying is very common around here.

If I get pulled over for a minor traffic violation, like speeding, I usually don’t inform the officer I have a gun because it could turn a 5 minute traffic stop into a 30 minute traffic stop.

However, if they ask me to step out of my vehicle, I immediately inform them that I am carrying and have a license.
 
Its not that simple, if someone denies their request for a search, this automatically makes police suspect they have something to hide, either drugs/ weapons, in the car, or something they dont want police to find, and then they just come up with a reason they can do the search without permission, or more likely find something to detain the person on.
What does that have to do with what I posted? I was talking about how to non-aggressively assert your rights. If they violate them, take it up in court.
 
I don’t care if it’s easy, I care if they find something.

I can’t guarantee that the previous person to rent or use the car didn’t leave me some drugs in the trunk. I also can’t guarantee that one of my passengers doesn’t have drugs on him. I also have no way of making sure that the police don’t plant something in the car in the event they fail to find anything. If you don’t consent to a search it makes it easier to challenge later. But, yes, I figure that the police are going to search no matter what I say.
Well, you are responsible for everything in the car, including the people. If they have drugs, you can be charged with it. That is the law. Don’t blame the police for enforcing the laws, they don’t write them, your legislature does.
 
Well, you are responsible for everything in the car, including the people. If they have drugs, you can be charged with it. That is the law. Don’t blame the police for enforcing the laws, they don’t write them, your legislature does.
Blame is for God and small children. I have a legal protection from unreasonable search and seizure - God Bless the USA for that - and I have no intention of giving it up all my legal protections. And the fact the police can get me dead to rights for something I have no control over is all the more reason to not allow them to search.
 
What happens when you refuse consent to an officer to search your vehicle and he says he’ll bring out the canine? Once the dog arrives, can an individual refuse to allow a canine search?;
 
Washington Post:
(I hope the mods will forgive posting an op-ed)

Seems to me his advice about going along quietly conflicts with asserting your rights not to submit to searches &c which will only earn a conviction for contempt of cop.
All of the advice he gives is sound, but I can’t get over the arrogant tone set by the headline.
 
Well, you are responsible for everything in the car, including the people. If they have drugs, you can be charged with it. That is the law. Don’t blame the police for enforcing the laws, they don’t write them, your legislature does.
Yes, but if the owner of the car does not consent to police searching, it should never come to that point. Its a shame police have ways around civilian rights like this…if an owner of a car says no search, that should be the end of it, police should be required to leave at that point…What good does it do for us to have rights, if police have ways around if they deem it necessary?
 
What good does it do for us to have rights, if police have ways around if they deem it necessary?
Well if the issue is the rights and their abuse you still have recourse to legal action, thus NYC. So it does good to have the rights. What good does it do that you may catch an injustice in some rare hypothetical situation? I think the idea is as everyones been saying, you should conduct yourself respectfully. In other words I don’t think its any secret why they do what they do. Trust the system is the solution, just as with everyone else. They don’t wake up and decide to go harass the local citizens. Still, with the warrior mentality you may have to be the bigger person and be submissive and quiet. Its probably best for everyone. 🙂

In other words after watching last weeks horror videos, frankly I’d be reluctant to restrict their authority, I have my doubts about NYC where it has been restricted also. The question is how much do you want to restrict the police when we don’t know what they know, and you see the radical behavior they deal with daily.
 
What happens when you refuse consent to an officer to search your vehicle and he says he’ll bring out the canine? Once the dog arrives, can an individual refuse to allow a canine search?;
All the dog can do is sniff outside, which is not a search, it can not enter the vehicle. However, a prolonged stop to bring a dog out could turn into an unlawful detention. Depends how quick they can do it, as the USSC has stated a traffic stop must take no longer in time then to effectuate the original purpose of the stop.
 
Of course. That is why refusing to allow a search always has to be followed up with, “Officer, am I free to go now?” The officer may try to extend the encounter until he can get K-9 units or bully you into allowing a search. Just politely repeat, “Officer, am I free to go?” At that point they can arrest you or let you go. But of course they will never just respond to a refusal with something like, “Very well, law abiding citizen, you are free to go now.” 😃
What many people forget about is just because you are not free to go doesn’t mean you are under arrest (I am speaking from the point of view of Georgia Law, other states may vary)

Police Officers can detain you for a reasonable amount of time (varies depending on reasons but roughly 30 minutes) for an “Investigatory Detention” In which they seek to dispel the Reasonable Suspicion for why they stopped you, or confirm it and arrest you.

People ask me all the time if they are free to go, to which I simply reply, “No you are being detained while I investigate”
 
Yes, but if the owner of the car does not consent to police searching, it should never come to that point. Its a shame police have ways around civilian rights like this…if an owner of a car says no search, that should be the end of it, police should be required to leave at that point…What good does it do for us to have rights, if police have ways around if they deem it necessary?
It depends, cars have a special set of rules because they are mobile and it would be easy to destroy any evidence within. This is different than say a house where an officer can take the time to secure a search warrant which requires probable cause.

A vehicle search however does still require probable cause (same standard as a warrant) and the police officer has to be able to articulate it to a judge or court when trial comes otherwise the evidence is thrown out. (Exclusionary rule) That rule is how the people’s rights are secured. Any evidence obtained illegally is thrown out and is not admissible in court.

Sometimes a Police officer will in good faith perform an illegal search. They will usually not be punished for it because it was done in good faith to their understanding of the law, however the evidence is still thrown out. (Of course if it keeps happening the DA is going to get very mad at that officer because he keeps losing cases because of him.

Officers are expected to be a walking encyclopedia of criminal law, however that law changes every year and he has to make on the fly decisions all the time. Mistakes happen, and that is what the courts are for.
 
What many people forget about is just because you are not free to go doesn’t mean you are under arrest (I am speaking from the point of view of Georgia Law, other states may vary)

Police Officers can detain you for a reasonable amount of time (varies depending on reasons but roughly 30 minutes) for an “Investigatory Detention” In which they seek to dispel the Reasonable Suspicion for why they stopped you, or confirm it and arrest you.

People ask me all the time if they are free to go, to which I simply reply, “No you are being detained while I investigate”
I think it is a good question to ask because it sets it puts the cop on notice that he or she is being watched. If you become too passive that is when you get taken advantage of.
 
I think it is a good question to ask because it sets it puts the cop on notice that he or she is being watched. If you become too passive that is when you get taken advantage of.
Oh of course. I was more talking about people such as in some YouTube videos who keep asking it over and over again like it changed in the past 3 seconds. But sure by all means if you have been sitting there for a awhile sure go ahead and ask.

Keep in mind the following for “Awhile”
  1. The officer will run your tag usually before he even comes talk to you (This is to see if the car owner has warrants or is stolen etc…)
  2. Once he gets your info he will go back into his car and run all that (for much the same reasons)
Depending on his equipment this can take a variable amount of time.

At this point he will probably come talk to you in detail. So don’t get upset if it seems like he isn’t talking to you much at the beginning.
 
All the dog can do is sniff outside, which is not a search, it can not enter the vehicle. However, a prolonged stop to bring a dog out could turn into an unlawful detention. Depends how quick they can do it, as the USSC has stated a traffic stop must take no longer in time then to effectuate the original purpose of the stop.
Personally, I dont think Id even allow them to run the dog around the outside of the car, thats still a search, just on the outside of the vehicle, Im not a lawyer, but I would think any lawyer would tell someone NOT to allow ANY kind of search. Theres no telling if what that dog is going to do.
 
Yes, but if the owner of the car does not consent to police searching, it should never come to that point. Its a shame police have ways around civilian rights like this…if an owner of a car says no search, that should be the end of it, police should be required to leave at that point…What good does it do for us to have rights, if police have ways around if they deem it necessary?
Probable cause is not a way around people’s rights. It is simply a law that a legislature has enacted. If you don’t like the law, take it up with your legislature. The police don’t make the law, they enforce it.

By the way, it is not that hard for them to get a warrant to search your car.
 
Personally, I dont think Id even allow them to run the dog around the outside of the car, thats still a search, just on the outside of the vehicle, Im not a lawyer, but I would think any lawyer would tell someone NOT to allow ANY kind of search. Theres no telling if what that dog is going to do.
Well, you have no choice in the matter because a canine sniffing around your car is not considered a search, at least not in most states. Again, if you don’t like the law, take it up with your legislature.
 

Instead of teaching our kids to ‘just do anything a cop tells you’, which is a bit outdated, Id rather teach my kids their constitutional rights when dealing with police, and tell them to make sure they follow that.
Here’s a good video for your kids to watch as they get to driving age:

youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

I have friends and family in law enforcement. One of the most dangerous things they do is pull people over, they have no idea how things can turn out- and it can change quickly. I’ve taught my kids to handle things they way I have successfully over the years if pulled over:
  1. Turn off the car
  2. If it’s night, turn on the inside lights
  3. Sit patiently with your hands on the wheel until the officer is at the window.
  4. Get the requested documents when directed to by the officer. It is much less stressful for the officer if they can see your hands at all times. If you’ve got to open the glove compartment (I keep registration/insurance card clipped to the visor)- let the officer know. Move slowly and deliberately.
  5. Stay polite, do not argue.Yes, sir and no sir connotate cooperation and respect.
  6. Do not testify against yourself. You don’t know why you were pulled over, you don’t know how fast you were going. You weren’t looking at the speedometer. This also means you can’t argue when he tells you what he thinks you did. Yes, sir. I understand that’s the way you saw things happen. If he says you did something, don’t agree. Simply await his decision on whether to write you up.
  7. Always keep in mind they are just doing their job and this is nothing personal until you make it so.
(Had a state trooper go from looking really irritated with me when he got to the passenger side window and tapped on it for me to roll it down. As I slowly leaned across and began hand-cranking the window down on my 2006 full size pick up he went to disbelief and then laughter. “OMG, manual windows!!”
“Yes officer, I thought you might get a little nervous if you saw me diving sideways as you walked up.”
“Yeah, I might have. Look, I’m just gonna give you a warning…”)
 
Blame is for God and small children. I have a legal protection from unreasonable search and seizure - God Bless the USA for that - and I have no intention of giving it up all my legal protections. And the fact the police can get me dead to rights for something I have no control over is all the more reason to not allow them to search.
Note you said unreasonable search and seizure. You do not have a legal protection from reasonable search and seizure. What is reasonable and unreasonable is up to the courts to decide.

And you do have control of the contents of your vehicle, including the people.
 
All the dog can do is sniff outside, which is not a search, it can not enter the vehicle. However, a prolonged stop to bring a dog out could turn into an unlawful detention. Depends how quick they can do it, as the USSC has stated a traffic stop must take no longer in time then to effectuate the original purpose of the stop.
The real purpose of the dog after someone has refused consent is to try to get probable cause.
If the dog indicates toward the car, they now have a reasonable suspicion and can search without consent.

So we should document the length of time this wait for the dog takes.
 
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