I’m not convinced that universalism is heresy

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This is also this very convincing blog post with the following paragraph:
Those who advocate for universalism argue that this is only a condemnation of Origen’s universalism, not the universalism supposedly expressed by other Fathers, because they had different theological and philosophical reasons for their universalism. But that is a bit like arguing that the Church hasn’t anathematized Jehovah’s Witness Christology, because they have different theological reasons for denying the divinity of Christ than the Arians did. This anathema states, without equivocation, that “we have ascertained from the entire Old and New Testaments, that the torment is unending and the Kingdom everlasting…” and there is no indication that we would ascertain anything differently if people were universalists because they saw a documentary on the history channel, read pseudo-Isaac’s writings, and agreed with it, or agreed with Origen.
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He makes a good point. Fr. John Whiteford: Stump the Priest: Is Universalism a Heresy?
 
That’s an excellent point. The Church can deny a heresy without needing to reject every theory behind the heresy. They stated that the doctrine was wrong, and they don’t need to debate every theory about why it could be true.
 
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But, but, but! 😯
 
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Which Gnostics are you speaking of? You do realize Gnosticism was in no way a uniform belief. Ths number of schools of thought in Gnosticism was mind blowing to the point scholars many times aren’t even sure traditional “Gnostic” sects even fit the criteria as being Gnostic. Actually that was a large part of why Gnosticism never really took root in a historical sense. There was no unified Gnostic belief. One community could think Jesus was a spirit, the other a mile down the road just a man with wisdom, and the next mile just a regular Joe who corrupted John the Baptists teachings ( which is to this day the belief of Mandaiesm). The duel concept was nothing new. It had rooted thought from Judaism, Christianity, Roman and Greek paganism, and Zoroastrianism which is a very dualistic faith.
 
THE POSITION THAT GOD AT THE END WILL SAVES EVERYONE IS NOT NEW

THE FOLLOWING EARLY FATHERS OF THE CHURCH ARE SAID TO HAVE TAUGHT THAT ALL WILL FINALLY BE SAVED
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Pantaenus; Clement of Alexandria; Origen; Athanasius; Didymus the Blind; Macarius of Egypt; Gregory Thaumaturgus; Ambrose; Ephraim; John Chrysostum; Gregory of Nyssa; Gregory of Nazianzus; Evagrius Ponticus; Titus of Bastra; Asterius of Amasea; Cyril; Methodius of Tyre; Pamphilius Eusibius; Hillary of Poitiers; Victorinus; Macrina the Younger; Dionysius the Areopagite; John Cassian; Maximus the Confessor; Proclus of Constantinople; Peter Chrysologus; Diodorus of Tarsus; Stephen bar Sudaili.
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The doctrine of universal salvation has become very popular in the modern Roman Catholic Church and more and more Catholic Priests teaching Universal Salvation.
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I believe Pope Francis also agree with the teachings of universal salvation because he is the one who replaced Cardinal Gerhard Müller who was the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith until 02/07/2017, with Archbishop Luis F. Ladaria, Jesuit theologian who is openly teaching Universal Salvation since many years.
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In my opinion:
If Pope Francis would not believe Universal Salvation, he would not replace Cardinal Gerhard Müller with Archbishop Luis F. Ladaria, Jesuit theologian who is openly teaching Universal Salvation since many years.
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There is also a very good book on Universal Salvation:
Jesus Christ Salvation of All by Luis F. Ladaria SJ (Author)
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EDITORIAL REVIEWS
“Luis F. Ladaria SJ presents a powerful statement openly advocating the doctrine of universal salvation.
His advocacy of universal salvation is openly and undeniably proclaimed.” – David Sielaff, Associates for Scriptural Knowledge, ASK " David Sielaff, Associates for Scriptural Knowledge, ASK"
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Continue
 
Continuation
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ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Archbishop Luis F. Ladaria, a Jesuit theologian who is the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, has been a professor of theology at the Pontifical Gregorian University of Rome since 1984.

He was also a professor at the Comillas University in Madrid, and from 1992 to 1997 he was a member of the International Theological Commission.

Since 2004 he has been the general secretary of that commission. His works have greatly contributed to contemporary theological debates.

Archbishop Ladaria has been secretary, the second in command, of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith since 2008 until 02/07/2017 and from this date on Pope Francis appointed Ladaria SJ. to the position of the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
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Jesus Christ Salvation of All by Luis F. Ladaria SJ.
Quote: Jesus includes everyone and excludes no one, and all of us have received his fullness (cfr. John 1:16).

The universality of salvation and unity of Christ’s mediation mutually affirm each other [p. 144].

Yet by dying, he gave us life, that is the life of his resurrection.
Even those who do not know him are called to this divine vocation, that is, to the perfect son-ship in and through Christ.

Christians and non-Christians reach this goal by virtue of the gift of the Spirit that associates us with the unique paschal ministry of Christ even if it is through diverse paths known only to God [p. 148-149]. End quote.
 
CampionTheChampion said:
Yeah I’m asking at the wrong place.

Nobody here understands what apokastasis is.
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You seem pretty impatient. It is only the 7th post and three hours, and you are giving up? Really? Maybe you just need to do your own research, instead of demanding that everyone drop what they are doing and meet your needs?

Are you using apokatastasis meaning the denial of the final reality of hell? Are you interpreting all Biblical references to the “fires of hell” not as an eternal punishment, but a tool of divine teaching and correction, akin to purgatory? Does your understanding of it imply that hell exists to separate good from evil in the soul?
CampionTheChampion said:
Constantinople condemned the preexistence of souls.
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And you think this somehow rules out what was defined about the apokas
CampionTheChampion said:
I don’t think the catechism is infallible if that’s what you’re trying to tell me.
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No, but it is a sure norm for the Catholic faith.
CampionTheChampion said:
I want something dogmatic. Nobody’s given me that.
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Dogmas are what we received from Jesus and the Apostles. Everything developed after that is a doctrine. Since you reject the Catholic interpretation of the Scriptures, I don’t think you will find what you are seeking here.

You seem to accept the teachings of the councils in other matters, but not this one.
 
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Apokatastasis, understood as the eventual salvation of demons as well as mankind, is heresy. It also is heresy to believe that people who have already gone to hell will get a second chance.

But a universalism that holds that no human person has ever gone to hell in the first place isn’t heresy, and is an opinion Bishop Robert Barron very much leans towards.
 
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Why the urgency in preaching the Gospel to all the world if all will be saved anyway? The Apostles might just as well have stayed at home and saved the cost of shoe leather. 🤔
 
Yeah I’m acting crappy. It’s been a rough few weeks.

I’m honestly wanting to become an atheist if the Christian God really does stop showing mercy people once they die. The thought is unbearable. I hate it. And I’m almost certain that there’s no dogma saying that universalism is heresy. But if there is, I might just go back to being Protestant, which is a nightmare in itself, or just be an atheist. Call it quits.

Sorry for dramatically posting on here, guys. I should have stopped myself from coming on here while I was so upset.
 
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Universalism is like double-predestination: it requires an irrational, unjust God. It renders meaningless the sacrifice at Calvary. It makes us fools for laboring in the vineyard our entire lives while others live lives of dissipation. - only to receive the same reward?

Nonsense!

Here’s something to ponder: When in heaven, we will be satisfied, if not delighted that souls are in hell.

Why?

Because we will have our intellects illumined to the perfection of God’s justice. Heaven and hell. Both Mercy and justice in perfection. We cannot understand it now, but we will then.
 
Sorry, but I’d rather rot in hell than enjoy watching my grandpa burn.
 
You makes it sound like it’d be bad news if God saved all.
 
It seems that God is being unmerciful by sending people to Hell, but in fact, He is shwing them mercy in His justice.

God gives everyone a chance in life and at the moment of death to repent. If people choose to reject God and refuse to be with Him, then He gives them what they want. He allows them to separate themselves from Him, the One Source of Goodness, forever.
 
Anyone who chooses to reject God is mad and needs a doctor, not an eternal burning.
 
Of course it’s terrrible. The visions of Hell traumatized the Saints. But it also galvanized them into action with calls for prayers and repentence and reform.

That’s why evangelization and personal holiness are so important.

We are not going to be glad watching the suffering in Hell. But we will be completely content knowing God is perfectly righteous and has made perfect judgements.

If you are worried about your grandpa, pray for him. Can you talk to a priest about your concerns? We’d hate to see you walk out on the Church over this.
 
CampionTheChampion said:
if the Christian God really does stop showing mercy people once they die
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A couple things to consider:
  1. Who is to say He doesn’t try and that the people in hell continue to refuse it? After all, the rich man never asked to be let out. He merely asked for a minor, temporary reduction of his suffering.
  2. Is hell possibly more merciful? These people have rejected God and refused to be purified for heaven. It could be that heaven would be even more torturous to their fallen souls, and God is permitting them a lesser suffering.
 
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It’s not just my grandpa. It’s any human being.

And I won’t leave the Church because Protestantism is a nightmare. I can’t stand the thought of going back to their beliefs. I believe in God too much to actually become an atheist.
 
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