I can't believe you all are not LDS(Mormon)!

[Isa_Almisry]

Um… then aren’t you disobeying them by coming to a Catholic forum where you’ll inevitably be exposed to non-Mormon theology?

Or thought?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I think she expected us to all throw up our hands and exclaim, “By Jove, you’re absolutely right! Why have I wasted my life with this Catholic nonsense when I could have been following Joseph Smith?”

Reminds me of the scene from “The Last Emperor”

“Kow-tow to Chairman Mao.”

Oopps. I forgot, you’re too busy bowing to the pope.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

And that is why you cannot see that the Moromon church is an abomination.

When you work in the tannery, it’s hard to notice the smell.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Although the Vatican has gone astray?
has, as in before…or has,as in now?/COLOR]

Before, but seems to be coming back now.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I will answer that for you estesbob! The basic claims of Mormonism are I think well-known, by someone like you at least, who is used to debating religion; but I will briefly highlight them for you again, just in case.

Joseph Smith was about 14 years old when he had his First Vision. In the part of the country that he lived, there arose a religious revival among the main Protestant sects that existed in that area, with the various factions competing with each other for converts. Joseph Smith as a young boy became perplexed and troubled about the conflicting messages that were coming from those sects; and after reading James 1:5: “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.” He was inspired to follow this advice, and go and inquire of the Lord in prayer to know which of the churches were right. He received a vision, in which God the Father and the Son appeared to him as two separate personages; and one pointing to the other said, “This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!” That is how Joseph Smith knew that the Father and the Son were two separate beings. That was possibly the greatest vision or revelation that anyone had received since the days that Jesus and His Apostles walked on the earth.

Several years later this was followed by many angelic ministrations in which he was instructed where to find the plates on which the Book of Mormon was engraved, and to translate them by the gift and power of God. Then the LDS Church was organized on the 6th of April 1830 by divine command, and following many other revelations and angelic ministrations, the fullness of the priesthood was restored, and many of the keys of the kingdom held by the ancient prophets, until the Church was fully organized; and when he had completed his mission, like many of the ancient prophets and Apostles of the Lord, he sealed his testimony with his blood. Today the LDS Church is the only true and living church in the world that has the full authority from God to administer valid sacraments (both for the living as well as for the dead) for the salvation of the human family. It is the Church or kingdom that Daniel say should be established in the last days that should destroy all kingdoms, and itself endure forever (Daniel 2:31–45).

This is the story of Mormonism. To some I am sure it will be an incredible and unlikely story; but to others like me who have gained a witness of it, it is the veritable truth. We believe that the truth of it can be known in only one way, by personal revelation from the Lord; hence there it the well-known promise in the Book of Mormon that if you read it and pray about it in faith, in sincerity, wanting to know the truth, that truth will be revealed to you by the power of the Holy Ghost. There are millions who have applied that test, and can testify that that promise is true—myself being one of them.

This is the “compelling story” and the “truth” that I “expect you to find” if you investigate Mormonism. It may seem an incredible story; but so was the story of St Paul at he related the account of his conversion before King Agrippa (Acts 26). But you must agree that it is a compelling story if it is true; and it surely is, just as Paul’s story was true. And there is a way that you can find that out—and that is by the revelations of Jesus Christ.

zerinus

Nah, I think the cartoon linked to above is all you need to know about Mormonism.

 

[tundramom]

I hope liz comes back.

Like RebeccaJ said, I was just like her in my teenage years. It wasn’t until I started trying to defend mormonism that I was actually brave enough to look at other arguments against it.

Praise God!

in Christ
Steph

 

[ricko]

Problems with the Mormon faith:

1. If you read the BOM and don’t believe it then you do not have faith.
2. If you read it and don’t believe it and say that you do have faith then you are a liar.
3. You must not use your intellect or reasoning powers to believe the BOM, you may use only your faith.
4. Forget that the bible says the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church. The BOM trumps the bible.
5. Forget that science has proven that there were no great cities in America with millions of people. Science is wrong, the BOM is right.
6. Forget that science and historians have said that there were no honey bees, horses, elephants, etc. in America during the timeline of the BOM. Science is wrong.
7. If you have faith and don’t use your intellect, reasoning and common sense then you will believe that the Jews came to America in the first submarine.
8. Do not believe science when they say that steel had not been invented during the BOM times, they are wrong again cause Joseph Smith said that they had steel. Also forget that scientists have never found any ancient steel. They are wrong again.

 

[dzheremi]

Wow, I like this waaaaaay more than the “What Mormons Believe” cartoon! Check this out:

Christian man deflates the lies of Mormon missionaries outside of a Burger King

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Wow, I like this waaaaaay more than the “What Mormons Believe” cartoon! Check this out:

Christian man deflates the lies of Mormon missionaries outside of a Burger King

And the Blacks have the soul of those who staye on the sidelines, Joseph Smith, Jr.? Not!

Simple and to the point.

 

[Zooey]

Dear lizs1988,

I have read the book of Mormon from cover to cover. I found it to be full of historical impossibilities and quite self-contradictory. Can you give me some other reason to think Mormonism is the way to go? Cause reading that didnt work.

Well, that makes two of us…

I would say they were lacking something when they prayed it

Oh, well. That explains everything.
I distinctly remember that I lacked credulousness & naivete.
Sorry about that.
"lizs1988:

don’t read ANY BOOKS beside church ones. Sorry

uch: All is explained!!:coffeeread:

I read the BoM cause my best friend was Mormon and I was trying to understand where she was coming from, I had been told that its impossible to read it from cover to cover without becoming Mormon so I was ready, but nope. didn’t work…

smiles and nods I’m sure that was it! I wasn’t praying right.

I think that was probably my problem too…I didn’t know the Secret Handshake, either.

Well, been nice chatting. I see by the clock on the wall that it time for me to go :bowdown: to my Thrice Great Kitty-Cat.

 

[why_me]

Oh, OK. Thanks for clearing that up. What would we do without you, whyme?

I don’t know but you all would be much worse off without my enlightened perspective if I can humbly say so.

I am still questioning the OP’s mormon status. Perhaps she is a troll but whether she is mormon is a question mark. It would be very easy for a catholic to come to the forum and post as a mormon to get catholic posters to trash the lds church. They would only have to pretend to be mormon and say things like: ‘you all bow down to the pope’; ‘I can only read mormon books’ etc. It would not be unheard of.

 

[why_me]

Because as Whyme keeps telling us it is impossible for a person to be a jerk and a Mormon. Catholics on the other hand are, on top of being drunks and faithless Christians are also devious.

It was still early in the thread and I did smell a rat in her post. But I could be wrong. For me, the jury is still out as to whether she is mormon.

Her comment about only being able to read mormon books is a give away for a catholic troll. Being on this forum, reading antimormon posts would not fit into the picture. It is a contradiction.

 

[BartBurk]

I don’t know but you all would be much worse off without my enlightened perspective if I can humbly say so.

I am still questioning the OP’s mormon status. Perhaps she is a troll but whether she is mormon is a question mark. It would be very easy for a catholic to come to the forum and post as a mormon to get catholic posters to trash the lds church. They would only have to pretend to be mormon and say things like: ‘you all bow down to the pope’; ‘I can only read mormon books’ etc. It would not be unheard of.

I agree with you about this one. Nothing being said by the OP is making any sense.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I agree with you about this one. Nothing being said by the OP is making any sense.

Isn’t that proof it’s Mormon?

 

[estesbob]

This is the “compelling story” and the “truth” that I “expect you to find” if you investigate Mormonism. It may seem an incredible story; but so was the story of St Paul at he related the account of his conversion before King Agrippa (Acts 26). But you must agree that it is a compelling story if it is true; and it surely is, just as Paul’s story was true. And there is a way that you can find that out—and that is by the revelations of Jesus Christ.

zerinus

The Problem is that tlis compelling story falls apart when one looks for archeological evdience of all that supposedly happened in the Book of Mormon. It would aslo appear that recent DNA revelations destroy much of the Mormon view on where Native Americans came from.

Even if we ignore that we must beleive that God lets his Church be in error for 1800 years and then revealed to one man a theology so different it makes the reformers look like devout Catholics.

 

[zerinus]

The Problem is that tlis compelling story falls apart when one looks for archeological evdience of all that supposedly happened in the Book of Mormon. It would aslo appear that recent DNA revelations destroy much of the Mormon view on where Native Americans came from.

The questions you are now asking are questions that have been asked many times before, so I have got ready-made answers for them. The archaeology question has been dealt with in this article, and the DNA question has been dealt with in this article in my Blog.

Even if we ignore that we must beleive that God lets his Church be in error for 1800 years . . .

That relates to the LDS doctrine of the Apostasy, which is another frequently asked question that I have dealt with in this article in my Blog.

. . . and then revealed to one man . . .

How many men did you expect Him to reveal it to? Every dispensation of the gospel has been revealed initially to one man, and then spread from him to many others. Moses was one man. Abraham was one man. Noah was one man. Jesus was one man. How many men did you expect God to reveal the last dispensation through?

. . . a theology so different it makes the reformers look like devout Catholics.

The Protestants are in a worst state than the Catholics. I don’t have any sympathies for the Protestants. They are an extension of the same Apostasy; and with their “Reformation” they made things worse rather than better. Mormon theology is biblical. It is neither Protestant nor Catholic, but biblical. It may be different to what Catholicism or Protestantism teaches; but it is not different to what the Bible teaches; and that is what matters.

zerinus

 

[estesbob]

The questions you are now asking are questions that have been asked many times before, so I have got ready-made answers for them. The archaeology question has been dealt with in this article, and the DNA question has been dealt with in this article in my Blog.

s

Which appears to say that we cant trust the DNA evicence because God could have changed it. From your blog:

Science assumes that natural law remains unchanged during the course of an experiment. It assumes that if you let go of a piece of stone in your hand, everything else being equal, that stone will always fall down, not go up. It cannot allow for the possibility that on occasions the stone may change its mind and decide to go up instead of falling down!

So in addtion to believing that DNA doesnt matter I have to beleive stones can fall upwards and God hid the remains of a massive civiliaztion that once existed in North Amercia?

 

[zerinus]

Which appears to say that we cant trust the DNA evicence because God could have changed it. From your blog:

Science assumes that natural law remains unchanged during the course of an experiment. It assumes that if you let go of a piece of stone in your hand, everything else being equal, that stone will always fall down, not go up. It cannot allow for the possibility that on occasions the stone may change its mind and decide to go up instead of falling down!

So in addtion to believing that DNA doesnt matter I have to beleive stones can fall upwards and God hid the remains of a massive civiliaztion that once existed in North Amercia?

Now you are completely distorting what I had said. If you can’t do better than that, then our converstaion comes to an end.

zerinus

 

[RobHom]

I was told since I was a young girl in primary to defend the truth to all religions. I am here because I find Catholics interesting. I work with a Catholic girl

Your parents and church taught you how to think. Its basically a denial of free will.

My parents taught me ONLY to read church related materials. I’m sorry if that bothers you!

That you limit your choices to LDS publications does not bother me so much as it saddens me.

Don’t mis-read what I say, ok? I have zero problems with Mormons on a personal level. I have known many, and even served in combat with some. Overall…I find them to be good and brave people. But as to religion… I do not share the LDS theology.

When you discuss religion…before you can speak intelligently on express a thought…its best to be informed as to what the other side believes. One would never go into a battle not knowing the tactics of the other side…its disastrous.

What you believe is what you believe. However, your beliefs and ours are somewhat diametrically opposed. Most likely there will never be a meeting of the minds.

I have read the Book of Mormon. I found it interesting on one level, but unfortunately…many of the claims and details asserted in the book are wholly unverifiable historically, physically, or otherwise.

Before criticizing “Catholic beliefs”…it would be best to do some reading…outside the LDS. I am not trying to lead you away from your faith…only the Holy Spirit can do that… but here is a link to exactly what Catholics believe…Its the Catechism: usccb.org/catechism/text/entiretoc1.htm

Also here is a link to the Douay-Rheims Bible: drbo.org/ It was translated from the Latin Vulgate.

Do not be afraid to read books outside of the Mormon realm. If your faith is that strong…nothing will sway you, therefore there is nothing to fear. I read the Book of Mormon…so why can’t you read other books?

 

[majick275]

repeating your blog over and over again will never change the fact that your “answers” are wrong. Joseph smith was a fraud. the book of mormon was a manmande. the doctrine and covenants nothing more than a scam to manipulate people into giving joseph smith their money, wives, daughters and obedience.