I don't feel like like I'm welcome in the Catholic community

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Feelings mislead. I believe that your feelings are misleading you. If you leave the Church, what on earth will you possess then? The absence of the Holy Spirit? Not an improvement. Far better, I think, to allow your intellect to reason your situation out, rather than allow feelings and emotions to mislead.

Now, if you do not feel safe talking even to priests, that strikes me as a serious trust issue, which points to a different situation altogether. Consider: Are you in, or have you received counseling or therapy? No need to answer, but consider that some form of counseling may help.

Talk to doctor if you do not trust the priests.
 
You do get some very anti-religion counsellors. I had a friend who had a hard time finding one that didn’t insist on starting from the position that her following a faith was the root of all her troubles.

Have you made a practical plan in case you have to leave quickly?
 
I don’t think you’re quite seeing what I’m talking about here.

The Church as a whole, God, the sacraments, these I am not talking about here. What I am talking about is the sense of wanting to not simply be the person who shows up to Mass and Confession and leaves without speaking to anyone, or who makes choices without (name removed by moderator)ut or counsel from those of faith. But I have found that the reality of my life is one that is often very difficult for people to grasp or one that they refuse to believe. Yes, even priests, sometimes therapists too. It can be hard to explain, sometimes even hard to understand yourself living it, there’s often an implicit assumption that parents like mine “mean well” and that you just need to figure out how to get along with them. I thought I was there for a while, but now I see that my getting along had a lot of me just not telling them things and plain old not picking up the phone.
 
po18guy said:
Feelings mislead. I believe that your feelings are misleading you. If you leave the Church, what on earth will you possess then? The absence of the Holy Spirit? Not an improvement. Far better, I think, to allow your intellect to reason your situation out, rather than allow feelings and emotions to mislead.

Now, if you do not feel safe talking even to priests, that strikes me as a serious trust issue, which points to a different situation altogether. Consider: Are you in, or have you received counseling or therapy? No need to answer, but consider that some form of counseling may help.

Talk to doctor if you do not trust the priests.
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I think you are being really dismissive of the bad advice that people get.

It’s no secret that people post college and pre-marriage basically can’t do anything right. If you are with your parents, then you’re a lazy loafer. If you have roomates then you are prolonging childhood. If you live alone then you are allowing for temptations. And no matter what, every year that passes as single you’re seen as some kind of social pariah whose rejecting a rightful vocation to religious or married life.

Yet parishes do NOTHING to help. The dioceses offer a few token offerings, sure, but it’s never great.

My husband and I went to the same church, did things within the church, we did things with the dioceses, yet we never met. We relied on Catholic Match. IMO the church did NOTHING to help me with my vocation. Because my husband and I were well educated on marriage and talked about issues we scored perfect on our FOCCUS test and the priest had nothing for us—nothing.

And now we have little ones. Is there anything for us? Nope. In fact its pretty difficult to volunteer now because the hours that the Church wants are not conducive to family life. There are a few mom’s groups here and there, but it’s still a long wait until the kids are old enough to go to CCD.

Then, we will “matter” to the Church again. Until then, it seems that the church can’t give a flying care about those who don’t fit into their social life.

And don’t give me the “so start things” line because I have. The groups ran great…but we basically did it without the church because even though the church bi-laws say that each group must have a “sponsoring outside member” or “spiritual advisor” the priest never encouraged and supported someone to be our groups, and did not take on the role himself–which was what was called for.
 
DarkLight said:
I think for me much of it was that therapists seemed often very eager to shove things in boxes that may or may not actually fit. I’ve had a lot of cases where I “knew” something was wrong with what I was being told for my situation, but couldn’t exactly articulate why. A lot of the stuff with family was that way - I think I was instinctively aware that a lot of the normal strategies for trying to work things out weren’t going to work, but couldn’t exactly articulate why. The simple fact I eventually figured out is you can’t work with someone who doesn’t want to work with you. Many therapy tricks are assuming that other people basically want to work with you and you two just need help communicating.
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You may find that therapists are typically better for “lives separately from mom” versus “lives with mom.”

The desire to fix things probably goes into overdrive when they know you are living together.
 
DarkLight said:
The Church as a whole, God, the sacraments, these I am not talking about here. What I am talking about is the sense of wanting to not simply be the person who shows up to Mass and Confession and leaves without speaking to anyone, or who makes choices without (name removed by moderator)ut or counsel from those of faith. But I have found that the reality of my life is one that is often very difficult for people to grasp or one that they refuse to believe. Yes, even priests, sometimes therapists too. It can be hard to explain, sometimes even hard to understand yourself living it, there’s often an implicit assumption that parents like mine “mean well” and that you just need to figure out how to get along with them. I thought I was there for a while, but now I see that my getting along had a lot of me just not telling them things and plain old not picking up the phone.
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In your shoes, I would plan to confide deeply in a handful of people and let other people have a more surface understanding of your situation. It’s a lot of time and energy to bring people up to speed on where you are and where you got there.
 
It sounds to me as if you simply long for some friends with “skin on” who share your faith. That is normal, God created us to live in community with others. I pray that you will find some real companions on this journey.
 
Xantippe said:
In your shoes, I would plan to confide deeply in a handful of people and let other people have a more surface understanding of your situation.
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I think my difficulty is there often doesn’t seem to be a more surface understanding. People seem to be very dichotimized with family - there’s good family that you want to spend time with (or ought to want to spend time with), and there’s bad abusive family. The default assumption is that you’re in the former category and you should just “work out your problems like adults”, unless you can provide enough information to prove you’re in the second.
 
DarkLight said:
People seem to be very dichotimized with family - there’s good family that you want to spend time with (or ought to want to spend time with), and there’s bad abusive family. The default assumption is that you’re in the former category and you should just “work out your problems like adults”, unless you can provide enough information to prove you’re in the second.
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I’d go for even more superficial, then.
 
A lot of it’s just trying to figure out how to dodge the discussions. For example, the whole “are you spending Christmas with your family?” conversation can be a pain, especially when if you say you’re not people make sympathetic noises about how much they must miss you and isn’t it so sad that you can’t make it? I know a lot of people suggest changing the subject, but I’ve never been able to do that in a way that doesn’t seem to make people more curious because I didn’t answer the question.
 
DarkLight said:
A lot of it’s just trying to figure out how to dodge the discussions. For example, the whole “are you spending Christmas with your family?” conversation can be a pain, especially when if you say you’re not people make sympathetic noises about how much they must miss you and isn’t it so sad that you can’t make it? I know a lot of people suggest changing the subject, but I’ve never been able to do that in a way that doesn’t seem to make people more curious because I didn’t answer the question.
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I think I’d say, “Yeah!” and then change the topic. Like, “What are you doing for Christmas?”

It’s just small talk–people really don’t care and won’t remember what you say unless they actually know you well and care about you, in which case you can provide more information.

It’s like, “How are you doing?” There’s a short answer (“Fine!”–I’m not dying right now) and a long answer for people whose relationship with you merits it.
 
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There are definitely times when you have to accept peoples limits and I agree that you need to deflect as much as you can with unhelpful people. Christmas is so difficult as many have such an idealised image of a family Christmas.
 
I believe you have a tough cross and that there is an important ultimate purpose for it. Consider Christ’s two-part answer to the question of the greatest commandment and, in light of that answer, seek to spend more time in adoration and thinking/talking/praying about others respectively. For adoration, I recommend the Holy Face/Reparation Chaplet. Keep on fighting – you will be in my intentions.
 
Well, we married folks who don’t fit the Norman Rockwell image have the same akward convo.

No, we are not doing anything for Thanksgiving. We will likely order a pizza. Why? Because our son, his fiancee work retail. I am not cooking a big meal for just us two.
We cannot afford to travel to other relatives.
 
Well, I have a lease now for Dec 1. So I’ll be getting out at least.

Of course, navigating what happens after may be rocky.
 
DarkLight said:
Well, I have a lease now for Dec 1. So I’ll be getting out at least.

Of course, navigating what happens after may be rocky.
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Make sure you have some non-depressing holiday plans, just in case it turns out you can’t get together with your parents.
 
I think a lot of it is still the same issue - that I feel there’s an expectation of what “honor your father and mother” means that just isn’t workable for people like me, and there’s no good way to work around that. There’s no easy thing I can point to and say, there, that was abuse, and have people understand. And because family is a common topic of conversation, it’s very hard and exhausting to dance around not talking about it.
 
You do deserve to happy. You did nothing wrong by not doing too much or what it is considered “enough” by society to make yourself happy.:hugs::hugs::hugs:
Don’t worry about people’s labeling of you. Even if you do something wrong, their labeling you is vapid and serves no purpose. And don’t assume everyone is labeling you until they make it clear that they do. Maybe one day you will make friends at Church. You never know. Do whatever you can to put the job stress out of your mind. Apply and see what they say, don’t stress about how you need it. It will only hurt you more. You don’t deserve to be unhappy. You just don’t. And no, I don’t believe in ‘wise’ advises on how you can plan your life and get to a certain point and there is never a reason to lament about anything. Some people can manage their lives others don’t. It also depends on the starting background you have. Life is sometimes only a journey.
Do you ever feel like your mom’s feeding on the negative energy an argument with you is creating and she’s actually enjoying it even while she claims that she is not enjoying, she is justly angry and you have to learn a lesson from her?
 
Mary888 said:
Do you ever feel like your mom’s feeding on the negative energy an argument with you is creating and she’s actually enjoying it even while she claims that she is not enjoying, she is justly angry and you have to learn a lesson from her?
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I think in many ways my mother has taken to playing the role of the victim. That if someone does not do as she says, she is being treated horribly. It protects her, she never has to make any changes or really think about her life, because if someone says anything, that would require her to change her behavior, they’re just being mean and nasty towards her, and she shouldn’t have to listen to them. My expected role is to be the one who validates all her beliefs and reassures her that she’s needed and everything she’s doing is fine and it’s so awful that everyone else treats her this way. I very much feel that her anger is an attempt to force me to stay in that role and not challenge her.
 
I have explained. I’ve explained repeatedly. The best answer I’ve gotten is, well, I’m sorry it’s so stressful for you, if your father wasn’t so awful to me all the time I wouldn’t be forced to do this. Isn’t it awful that he’s doing this? It’s just so hard on me, I’ve got no one else. Won’t you at least try to see it from my point of view?
 
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