"I had an abortion" fitted T-shirt

[cove]

I view this t-shirt as a hateful attack on women who have had abortions. It is a known fact that most woman regret their abortions and suffer from the after effects. I am surprised that PP would be so uncaring toward these woman who turned to them for help at a time when they felt they needed their organization to help them with their unplanned or crisis pregnancy. If I were one of these woman I would be outraged at the lack of sensitivity toward the feelings of these women who are suffering in privacy. This is proof that PP and PC are not pro-woman. As they claim to be. How could they be so insensitive???

On a lighter note–I wore a shirt that said “CHOOSE LIFE” when I was pregnant. I got alot of thumbs up and positive feedback when I wore it.

My teenage daughter has a t-shirt depicting the Virgin Mary that says “Mary is my Homegirl”. And, she proudly displayed her new t-shirt she got at the mall last weekend that says “Catholic Girl” on the front.

 

[siamesecat]

Okay, Let me put it this way: My wife is currently pregnant. Now in many states if I beat the snot out of her until she miscarries the baby, All I can be charged with is assault, as the child is not considered to be a person. Most Pro-choice people (as far as I can see) are for this. However, The same people would be calling for my head (esspecialy if they belong to PETA) if I were to climb up to a Califonia Condor nest and start flinging eggs out of it, killing the unborn chicks.

As someone who believes in a womans right to have an abortion yet would never be able to bring myself to have one, I still consider a fetus a human…as in if you beat your wife you should be charged with murder. Scott Peterson was very aware Laci was pregnant and should be charged double murder in my opinion…but its weird because although i believe that baby was human…I still support abortion because I know women will continue to have abortions even if theyre illegal only in more dangerous ways…and while I tihnk you should abstain until you can support a kid if you did get pregnant…if I somehow was talked into having sex and made a horrible mistake and got pregnant…Id be glad the option was open. And I definately believe in it in the case of rape, severe birth defects, or health risk to the mother if the mother so chooses. So I dont know how to feel.

 

[aimee]

siamesecat:

As someone who believes in a womans right to have an abortion yet would never be able to bring myself to have one, I still consider a fetus a human…as in if you beat your wife you should be charged with murder. Scott Peterson was very aware Laci was pregnant and should be charged double murder in my opinion…but its weird because although i believe that baby was human…I still support abortion because I know women will continue to have abortions even if theyre illegal only in more dangerous ways…and while I tihnk you should abstain until you can support a kid if you did get pregnant…if I somehow was talked into having sex and made a horrible mistake and got pregnant…Id be glad the option was open. And I definately believe in it in the case of rape, severe birth defects, or health risk to the mother if the mother so chooses. So I dont know how to feel.

Thats one of the problems with your thinking …its not always about you. There is another human being to consider…while I can understand someone not wanting to raise a child…well…to kill it is unthinkable…terrible thing to do…I speak as an adopted person who …who had an unselfish bio mother who gave me life and gave me a chance to live.

God Bless you Siamese.
A

 

[Joanna]

siamesecat:

As someone who believes in a womans right to have an abortion yet would never be able to bring myself to have one, I still consider a fetus a human…as in if you beat your wife you should be charged with murder. Scott Peterson was very aware Laci was pregnant and should be charged double murder in my opinion…but its weird because although i believe that baby was human…I still support abortion because I know women will continue to have abortions even if theyre illegal only in more dangerous ways…and while I tihnk you should abstain until you can support a kid if you did get pregnant…if I somehow was talked into having sex and made a horrible mistake and got pregnant…Id be glad the option was open. And I definately believe in it in the case of rape, severe birth defects, or health risk to the mother if the mother so chooses. So I dont know how to feel.

Are you going to think or feel your way through your quandary? It really is important.

Will the fact that pregnancy means there are two lives involved, not just one, enter your thoughts. This fact will remain the truth no matter how scared, embarrassed, inconvenienced, angry or hormonal you may happen to be. A person in such a dilemma will probabably be all of those things from one day to the next. I hope you never have to make such decision (choice), but it’s important to make such a decision in a rational way based on fact, based on truth. Your feelings will change, the truth won’t. That life within a pregnant woman won’t go away unless it dies or it’s killed. It’s not like choosing a job or buying a house where a bad decision can be rectified by getting another, a do over. This decision follows you. If you never have to make this decision for yourself great, but because it is permanent do think about it and be careful how you influence others for your advice could lead to someone’s life or death.

 

[Ana]

Siamesecat, my cousins baby girl was diagnosed with Down’s Syndrome in utero. Due to their strong pro-life beliefs they never considered terminating the pregnancy. It just wasn’t an option for them. She was born completely normal. I wonder how many false diagnosis’ ended in the death of a child. But that she was born without Down Syndrome isn’t the point. They had every reason to believe the doctor’s diagnosis and chose to welcome their baby, Down’s Syndrome or not. My husband and I had this discussion prior to our children … “what would we do?” I remember exactly what he said six years ago. I don’t care, it would be MY CHILD and I would love him!" Then he held up his fist as if to say “and let someone try to hurt him!” I fell in love with him all over again at that moment. Thank you for bringing back that memory for me. Now I feel kind of … well…wonderful.

Okay, feet back on the ground. I saw an interview of a girl who was conceived from rape. Her mother was there also. They were absolutely beautiful and it was clear that having her daughter was not worse for her dealing with the trauma of being raped, but actually HELPED her to heal. My husband’s co-worker was also conceived by an act of rape. I bet she also is glad her mother chose life. Incidently, both of the mother’s were Catholic, not to imply that non-catholics would automatically terminate a rape pregnancy, just stating the facts. But I think it does kind of explain how they could have made such a difficult and selfless decision, despite their own justified pain. It takes a certain amount of trust, of faith, to make a decision like that. To trust in GOOD. That in even something as horrible and traumatizing as rape, good can come from it AND that no matter how it was conceived … it is still a human being … and has a right to live. Neither of these woman asked to be raped. Nor to be impregnated. And they REFUSED to be put in the position of murdering their own child. In this case they were able to prevent being a victim again … this time by abortion.
As for your last point, as in the case of a serious health risk for the mom. If the mother is in danger, the Church approves of seeking life saving remedies. If these remedies RESULT in an abortion, the Church says there is NO SIN. NEVER has an abortion been said to save a mothers life, even pro-choicer’s don’t make that claim. In the case of a mother’s life being saved, an abortion was a result of a life saving procedure. BIG DIFFERANCE! I just love the dogarn REASONABLENESS of Church teaching when given adequate attention, study, and reflection.
God bless.

 

[Joanna]

Ana, I sure wish I could give you reputation. But this will have to do:

 

[Wormwood]

Right now…I’m thinking of a good receipe for TROLL stew…

Articulate and conscise yes…point?

 

[Wormwood]

What you see here is not outrage over a shirt or wanting to curb free speech-- what you see is outrage that anyone would be so callus as to be proud of having had their child’s life ended in an abortionists office.

It seemed to be mostly about the shirt…call it what you want, but it was someone wearing/ making this shirt that caused the outrage. (look at the title of the thread) . The thing you refuse to recognize is the debatability of the moment of humanity(i.e. when does it become a human being) Bill Hicks said, “they’re not people until they’re in my phonebook”. I don’t know if I would go that far, but I don’t think a zygote is a person anymore than a sperm or an egg is a person. The only reason a shirt like that is even made is to spite uptight people that are looking for moral drama. You snicker or whatever in public and they get a laugh at your expense. Why play into that? There is no way to know if the person in the shirt even really had an abortion. It is the shock value that sells these shirts and it’s people like you that feed the shock value.

Ranting and raving? Ummm … okay. There were only two posts that were ranting. Yours and wormwoods. We are speaking about abortion because that is the topic of this thread. Didn’t you read the title? So, if the topic of this thread was “poverty” or the “homeless” would you than accuse us of not caring about the slaughter of the unborn? You guys are going off topic

Actually the topic is the t-shirt if you want to be picky. I am not accusing anyone of anything, I am just an observer. I have yet to hear prolifers or the “moral majority” protesting hunger, and my point to tie that in is, you concern yourself with life as long as you don’t have to make any kind of personal commitment. You are only outraged about this because your dealings with these “children” end once they’re born, what about 20-30 years later when they have been in and out of foster homes, juvenille hall, and jail and they are living on the streets? Do they not deserve your passionate concern for their well being? You can say it is off topic, but it isn’t, because the point is you only worry over trivial things like t-shirts instead of ACTUAL compassion.

Many of the people who are among these people are the other victims of abortion…the would-have been mothers. Women who have had abortions suffer longer than their aborted babies did…

Then they won’t buy the shirt. If you don’t like a product, you don’t have to buy it. You don’t have to like it or accept it, but why try to boycott a website or business so no can have them? Why let it make you upset and want to approach someone? There is no such thing as bad publicity and an uproar just sells more of an offensive product, not less.

 

[aimee]

Wormwood:

Articulate and conscise yes…point?

If you have to ask …well, I’m not surprised…you just don’t get it.

 

[Wormwood]

So should black people be ‘grown up’ and not be upset when someone wears a racist t-shirt?

Yes. If only it were possible for us to grow up as a nation many ridiculous quarrels could be avoided. I think racism/racial pride accomplishes the same thing: the seperation of people into catagories. If it weren’t made such a big issue, then it would be such a big issue.

If you saw someone wearing a racist t-shirt, wouldn’t you want to try and make them understand that racism is wrong?

No, for a myriad of reasons. One being if it were racist to my race then they are probably not going to respect my opinion. Second if they are racist they are most likely closed minded and ignorant, why bother talking to them? Third why should I care what someone I don’t even know believes?

Oh Please, PC is anti-american. Instead of African-American or Asian American I think it should be American of African or Asian Descent. You are an american first, after all. But I stray OT.

I will do you one better and say JUST call them americans. I don’t care where you came from, if you live here and you don’t remember the trip you are american end of story. The pc I was refering to is the pc that says everyone should be respected REGAURDLESS of diversity, it was in reference to an earlier post in which someone suggested doing away with pc in that respect.

Would you be mad at someone wearing a racist t-shirt? What’s wrong with us being mad at this t-shirt, as it is anethama (sp?) to our values (just as a racist t-shirt would be).

BTW, You have freedom of speach, but not freedom from criticism. You can say what you want, but I have as much of a right to say how stupid/immoral/ecetera it is.

Again no I wouldn’t be angry about ANY article of clothing for ANY reason (it could say take your stupid drunken mick a** back to ireland and eat potatos I don’t really care)

Okay, Let me put it this way: My wife is currently pregnant. Now in many states if I beat the snot out of her until she miscarries the baby, All I can be charged with is assault, as the child is not considered to be a person. Most Pro-choice people (as far as I can see) are for this. However, The same people would be calling for my head (esspecialy if they belong to PETA) if I were to climb up to a Califonia Condor nest and start flinging eggs out of it, killing the unborn chicks.

I don’t know anyone that is for you beating your wife and walking away(probably not the best environment for a child anyway). The reason it isn’t murder is because the mass of tissue is not yet considered a human being… if your wife was in a car accident and miscarried would that be manslaughter? Or if the accident rendered her sterile is that manslaughter for all of the unborn eggs? It is all “human life” in the context you are using.

Well, the Catholic church near my home has a homeless shelter right on the church grounds, It also has a food pantry, and a Medical and Dental clinic on the grounds as well. This is all for people who cannot afford it. Your bigotry, and that IS what you are displaying here, is pretty noticable. Either that or you are living under a toll bridge.

Well bless your church, not all do. But do you PERSONALLY do ANYTHING to make a difference? Not what does your church do, as it is not your church that stages fire bombings of clinics i pressume, it is the organized people with purpose that use their free time to demonstrate. I am merely asking why these same people do not direct their efforts towards more productive and life enhancing activities for the living. My only “bigotry” is against people whose only concern is with babies-to-be, and they have none for the living dead the fill the streets. If you don’t fit this catagory then you should take no offense.

 

[Shoshana]

Wormwood:

Yes. If only it were possible for us to grow up as a nation many ridiculous quarrels could be avoided. I think racism/racial pride accomplishes the same thing: the seperation of people into catagories. If it weren’t made such a big issue, then it would be such a big issue.

No, for a myriad of reasons. One being if it were racist to my race then they are probably not going to respect my opinion. Second if they are racist they are most likely closed minded and ignorant, why bother talking to them? Third why should I care what someone I don’t even know believes?

I will do you one better and say JUST call them americans. I don’t care where you came from, if you live here and you don’t remember the trip you are american end of story. The pc I was refering to is the pc that says everyone should be respected REGAURDLESS of diversity, it was in reference to an earlier post in which someone suggested doing away with pc in that respect.

Again no I wouldn’t be angry about ANY article of clothing for ANY reason (it could say take your stupid drunken mick a** back to ireland and eat potatos I don’t really care)

I don’t know anyone that is for you beating your wife and walking away(probably not the best environment for a child anyway). The reason it isn’t murder is because the mass of tissue is not yet considered a human being… if your wife was in a car accident and miscarried would that be manslaughter? Or if the accident rendered her sterile is that manslaughter for all of the unborn eggs? It is all “human life” in the context you are using.

Well bless your church, not all do. But do you PERSONALLY do ANYTHING to make a difference? Not what does your church do, as it is not your church that stages fire bombings of clinics i pressume, it is the organized people with purpose that use their free time to demonstrate. I am merely asking why these same people do not direct their efforts towards more productive and life enhancing activities for the living. My only “bigotry” is against people whose only concern is with babies-to-be, and they have none for the living dead the fill the streets. If you don’t fit this catagory then you should take no offense.

Ah! Wormwood! You are still doing your cherbonyl-kinda thing God bless you!
Shoshana

 

[siamesecat]

Ana:

Siamesecat, my cousins baby girl was diagnosed with Down’s Syndrome in utero. Due to their strong pro-life beliefs they never considered terminating the pregnancy. It just wasn’t an option for them. She was born completely normal. I wonder how many false diagnosis’ ended in the death of a child. But that she was born without Down Syndrome isn’t the point. They had every reason to believe the doctor’s diagnosis and chose to welcome their baby, Down’s Syndrome or not. My husband and I had this discussion prior to our children … “what would we do?” I remember exactly what he said six years ago. I don’t care, it would be MY CHILD and I would love him!" Then he held up his fist as if to say “and let someone try to hurt him!” I fell in love with him all over again at that moment. Thank you for bringing back that memory for me. Now I feel kind of … well…wonderful.
/QUOTE]
In response…I know many people would not mind caring for a Downs Syndrome child. My next door neighbors (well former…they had to move to be closer to their sons school for autism) are like family to us. They had an autistic son. I love him very much and I am glad it was not known till after the birth of his disability because his mom probably would have aborted him. However, I can see what it did to the rest of the family. They are devastated, struggling to pay a 60k tuition to a school that will help him, and had to move because of it. They cant go many public places, or have much company, and his big sister has suffered a lot from it. It tore the family apart…and they will have to care for him forever…they wont have a retirement…when they die he will probably end up in a home somewhere. That is why I support abortion for a kid with a severe birth defect (and i mean something severe), although i love david very much. I completely understand why some rape victims and parents of special needs children want the children, hwoever I am also understanding of theneed to have an abortion. In rape cases I believe they should be given emergency contraception so that pregnancy will be avoided (i really dont consider it life when the fetus is just a cell). But please dont get me wrong, i know special needs kids can be loving and be loved and that its not their fault…but i understand why some people choose to terminate that kind of pregnancy.

 

[milimac]

Wormwood:

This thread, and most of the responses really blew my mind. So many, in fact, that I couldn’t possibly respond to them all, but the key points were pretty consistant. Basically, everyone is getting all upset over a t-shirt. A piece of cloth with some words on it… grow up. I am sure you don’t agree with what it says, but why does that compell you to want to say something to this person, or even more laughable talk them into some kind of conversion? And why all the anti-pc (in essence anit-american) propaganda? If you think we have too much freedom here then leave, no one is forcing you to stay. This notion that “the devil” is at work thru his t-shirts and gay marriage is ridiculous. The best part was that some of you were actually mad at the people wearing the shirt (why not fire-bomb them like a PP clinic? that’ll teach em how prolife you are!) There are tons of REAL issues in the world, why not get mad about them? There are plenty of people that WERE born that have troubles, why not fight for them? Are you prolife until the moment of birth then they are on they’re own? It is a cop-out to focus on this, because the arguments generally go: what about that child, he could have grown to have a wonderful life…and he could have been the next hitler, this kind of speculative argument doesn’t prove anything. Granted, it seems harsh to kill these “children” but you are really only personifying a mass of tissues with no memories or sense of self. There are people that suffer and that do have a sense of self and memories but they seem to go unnoticed, why not get enraged over poverty or unfit living conditions…because that is something you could actually help, and it is much easier to get involved with this issue because it requires no personal commitment; once the child is born they are on their own…all you have to do is protest and you feel you are doing good in this world by ostricizing people. So think about that the next time you step over a homeless guy to get to your prolife rally.

Just in case you weren’t being sarcastic…

Hey buddy, relax! They’re just words displayed on a website on your computer screen! It’s obvious you didn’t agree with them, but why does that compell you to respond, or even more laughable talk us into some kind of conversion?

Could it be that we believe the truth is important, and that some truths are absolute and apply to all?

If not – if truth is relative – then please quit ranting and let me continue to believe that abortion is a grave evil in our society and must be stopped. And let people who think slavery is OK (for them) continue to capture women and children to be their slaves (as in the Sudan). Let me shoot fireworks in the mountains during an extreme fire danger warning. Let people have sex with their pets if they want to (well, at least don’t say it’s wrong!) And would all those self-righteous people who think the world is round and 2+2=4 just shut up?! Let me decide for myself!

 

[Ana]

Hey Siamesecat. In the post prior to your last you implied in internal struggle about being pro-life or pro-choice. Your last post shows the same conflict. A lot of I believe this … but this and I am glad she didn’t know because she would have aborted him (and I love him) … but I understand if she did. I would never bring myself to … but I understand why someone else would want to. That’s the problem with riding the fence, never quite comfortable. I admire your willingness to consider all sides of the issue and I hope you find sure footing along with peace of conscience.

 

[Joanna]

milimac:

Just in case you weren’t being sarcastic…

Hey buddy, relax! They’re just words displayed on a website on your computer screen! It’s obvious you didn’t agree with them, but why does that compell you to respond, or even more laughable talk us into some kind of conversion?

Could it be that we believe the truth is important, and that some truths are absolute and apply to all?

If not – if truth is relative – then please quit ranting and let me continue to believe that abortion is a grave evil in our society and must be stopped. And let people who think slavery is OK (for them) continue to capture women and children to be their slaves (as in the Sudan). Let me shoot fireworks in the mountains during an extreme fire danger warning. Let people have sex with their pets if they want to (well, at least don’t say it’s wrong!) And would all those self-righteous people who think the world is round and 2+2=4 just shut up?! Let me decide for myself!

Exactly and, may I say, **ditto! **:yup:

 

[matthew1624]

This is just as revolting…

NY Times Article
July 18, 2004

When One Is Enough
By AMY RICHARDS as told to AMY BARRETT

I grew up in a working-class family in Pennsylvania not knowing my father. I have never missed not having him. I firmly believe that, but for much of my life I felt that what I probably would have gained was economic security and with that societal security. Growing up with a single mother, I was always buying into the myth that I was going to be seduced in the back of a pickup truck and become pregnant when I was 16. I had friends when I was in school who were helping to rear nieces and nephews, because their siblings, who were not much older, were having babies. I had friends from all over the class spectrum: I saw the nieces and nephews on the one hand and country-club memberships and station wagons on the other. I felt I was in the middle. I had this fear: What would it take for me to just slip?

Now I’m 34. My boyfriend, Peter, and I have been together three years. I’m old enough to presume that I wasn’t going to have an easy time becoming pregnant. I was tired of being on the pill, because it made me moody. Before I went off it, Peter and I talked about what would happen if I became pregnant, and we both agreed that we would have the child.

I found out I was having triplets when I went to my obstetrician. The doctor had just finished telling me I was going to have a low-risk pregnancy. She turned on the sonogram machine. There was a long pause, then she said, ‘‘Are you sure you didn’t take fertility drugs?’’ I said, ‘‘I’m positive.’’ Peter and I were very shocked when she said there were three. ‘‘You know, this changes everything,’’ she said. ‘‘You’ll have to see a specialist.’’

My immediate response was, I cannot have triplets. I was not married; I lived in a five-story walk-up in the East Village; I worked freelance; and I would have to go on bed rest in March. I lecture at colleges, and my biggest months are March and April. I would have to give up my main income for the rest of the year. There was a part of me that was sure I could work around that. But it was a matter of, Do I want to?

I looked at Peter and asked the doctor: ‘‘Is it possible to get rid of one of them? Or two of them?’’ The obstetrician wasn’t an expert in selective reduction, but she knew that with a shot of potassium chloride you could eliminate one or more.

Continued on next post…

 

[matthew1624]

Continued (Part II)

Having felt physically fine up to this point, I got on the subway afterward, and all of a sudden, I felt ill. I didn’t want to eat anything. What I was going through seemed like a very unnatural experience. On the subway, Peter asked, ‘‘Shouldn’t we consider having triplets?’’ And I had this adverse reaction: ‘‘This is why they say it’s the woman’s choice, because you think I could just carry triplets. That’s easy for you to say, but I’d have to give up my life.’’ Not only would I have to be on bed rest at 20 weeks, I wouldn’t be able to fly after 15. I was already at eight weeks. When I found out about the triplets, I felt like: It’s not the back of a pickup at 16, but now I’m going to have to move to Staten Island. I’ll never leave my house because I’ll have to care for these children. I’ll have to start shopping only at Costco and buying big jars of mayonnaise. Even in my moments of thinking about having three, I don’t think that deep down I was ever considering it.

The specialist called me back at 10 p.m. I had just finished watching a Boston Pops concert at Symphony Hall. As everybody burst into applause, I watched my cellphone vibrating, grabbed it and ran into the lobby. He told me that he does a detailed sonogram before doing a selective reduction to see if one fetus appears to be struggling. The procedure involves a shot of potassium chloride to the heart of the fetus. There are a lot more complications when a woman carries multiples. And so, from the doctor’s perspective, it’s a matter of trying to save the woman this trauma. After I talked to the specialist, I told Peter, ‘‘That’s what I’m going to do.’’ He replied, ‘‘What we’re going to do.’’ He respected what I was going through, but at a certain point, he felt that this was a decision we were making. I agreed.

When we saw the specialist, we found out that I was carrying identical twins and a stand alone. My doctors thought the stand alone was three days older. There was something psychologically comforting about that, since I wanted to have just one. Before the procedure, I was focused on relaxing. But Peter was staring at the sonogram screen thinking: Oh, my gosh, there are three heartbeats. I can’t believe we’re about to make two disappear. The doctor came in, and then Peter was asked to leave. I said, ‘‘Can Peter stay?’’ The doctor said no. I know Peter was offended by that.

Two days after the procedure, smells no longer set me off and I no longer wanted to eat nothing but sour-apple gum. I went on to have a pretty seamless pregnancy. But I had a recurring feeling that this was going to come back and haunt me. Was I going to have a stillbirth or miscarry late in my pregnancy?

I had a boy, and everything is fine. But thinking about becoming pregnant again is terrifying. Am I going to have quintuplets? I would do the same thing if I had triplets again, but if I had twins, I would probably have twins. Then again, I don’t know.

 

[Wormwood]

Hey buddy, relax! They’re just words displayed on a website on your computer screen! It’s obvious you didn’t agree with them, but why does that compell you to respond, or even more laughable talk us into some kind of conversion?

Your wit is astounding! ( That is what sarcasm looks like ) Since you ask you shall recieve. Why? Because this is a forum…not everyday life on the streets. You come here to hear opinions, someone wearing a shirt you don’t like, most assuredly does NOT care to hear your opinion. If you would like me to stop posting that is fine just say the words. I am met with mostly contempt here anyway. But you willing come to this forum, someone in real life is not willingly being berated about how your god hates them.

Could it be that we believe the truth is important, and that some truths are absolute and apply to all?

Most probably. But I assure you we speak of different “truths”. Something is not true just because it is in print, or someone tells you this was divinely inspired. Something is true when you can prove it with facts and data and reproduceable results. If you can lend any of these things to your argument I would love to hear them.

if truth is relative – then please quit ranting and let me continue to believe that abortion is a grave evil in our society and must be stopped. And let people who think slavery is OK (for them) continue to capture women and children to be their slaves (as in the Sudan). Let me shoot fireworks in the mountains during an extreme fire danger warning. Let people have sex with their pets if they want to (well, at least don’t say it’s wrong!)

Your own statement takes away from your argument. If truth is relative then you can not go impose your puritanical morality, as you are coming from one of many truths. Also you used it in a list of things that ARE wrong so by association and precedent you are saying your own argument is faulty in reasoning. As far as beastiality goes, I personally don’t condone it because it ( among other things) is a form of rape…but if the sheep concents behind closed doors…well to each his own I guess.

And would all those self-righteous people who think the world is round and 2+2=4 just shut up?!

It is funny you used this as your example to show your sound reasoning. 2+2=4 can be repeatedly proven and is the approach of the analytical. The approach of the self righteous seems to be 1+0= holy trinity, mary, a pleathera of saints, and a ton of religious jargon and speculation. And the results rarely reflect one another (i.e. people within your own church are divided)
Also, if it were up to the church, the world would be flat and the center of the universe (impedeing science with religious persecution).

 

[Wormwood]

Ah! Wormwood! You are still doing your cherbonyl-kinda thing God bless you!
Shoshana

You are one of the few people that can disagree with me and still be civil. God bless you, you and the people like you are the reason I come back…it is nice to meet someone with more patience and kindness than myself and you are a model for your people. You are truly the “meek” I’ve heard so much about. Thanks again.

BTW figure out the name yet? hehe

 

[Servulus]

Wormwood:

BTW figure out the name yet? hehe

Dear Wormwood,

 Of course I have.  Stop showing off.

Sincerely,
Uncle Screwtape