ICE arrests nearly 450 illegal immigrants in sanctuary city raids

[De_Maria]

The topic is police police toward enforcing immigration law,

The fears of any group are besides the point. I’m sure all criminals have a fear of the laws being enforced on them. Many people have phobias of all sorts. But that doesn’t mean that the police should stop enforcing any laws because of them.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The topic is police police toward enforcing immigration law,

I have repeatedly cited the fears of those who are not breaking the law, and I have shown how those fears are justified.

Many people have phobias of all sorts.

I am not talking about irrational phobias. I am talking about justifiable and widespread fears of the police if they take it upon themselves to detain those who violate immigration law.

 

[Theo520]

I am not talking about irrational phobias. I am talking about justifiable and widespread fears of the police if they take it upon themselves to detain those who violate immigration law.

The AZ lawsuit already confirmed local LEO can’t take it upon themselves to detain violators of immigration law.

All people expect of them is to hold people already in custody for other reasons.

 

[starlady]

De_Maria:

The topic is police police toward enforcing immigration law,

I have repeatedly cited the fears of those who are not breaking the law, and I have shown how those fears are justified.

Many people have phobias of all sorts.

I am not talking about irrational phobias. I am talking about justifiable and widespread fears of the police if they take it upon themselves to detain those who violate immigration law.

I’ve seen it. My supervisor told me she has seen a sudden decrease in the number of people who are willing to share contact information at first contact. And we work for the Church…we work with all Spanish-speaking families regardless of immigration status. I highly doubt every single one of them is undocumented; in fact, I know for certain that many of them are permanent residents and citizens. But there is a tangible sense that the immigrant community is very cautious, documented or otherwise.

 

[pnewton]

And that’s all we’re talking about

If that is the case, I believe you are unique in this. But I note your first post was on the definition of “illegal”, which sort of was the first post to expand the scope. Not that this is a problem. I think this thread has been pretty much on topic. I just don’t want the old “start your own thread” shut down.

Off topic.

I note that sanctuary city policies were brought up in the news article and by the first poster. Therefore, there are at minimum two topics here. These arrests and sanctuary cities.

 

[De_Maria]

Tearing apart families is quite a bit different from ripping off a band-aid.

The object is to bring criminals to justice. If criminals are removed from their families because of their crimes, it is the criminals who are to blame. Not the justice system.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

Tearing apart families is quite a bit different from ripping off a band-aid.

The object is to bring criminals to justice. If criminals are removed from their families because of their crimes, it is the criminals who are to blame. Not the justice system.

That is one object. Another object is to keep families together and to foster good community relations. It makes sense that we balance these objectives in a logical manner rather than pursuing one object with complete disregard for any other object.

 

[De_Maria]

That is one object. Another object is to keep families together and to foster good community relations…

That’s not their job. If they wanted to be social workers, they should have applied for the position. Now they are holding law enforcement jobs and turning a blind eye to crime in the name of fostering good community relations is a poor excuse for not doing the job they were hired to do.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

That is one object. Another object is to keep families together and to foster good community relations…

That’s not their job. If they wanted to be social workers, they should have applied for the position. Now they are holding law enforcement jobs and turning a blind eye to crime in the name of fostering good community relations is a poor excuse for not doing the job they were hired to do.

They are not turning a blind eye to any crime except possibly being in the US without papers. It is just wrong to say they are. As for “their job”, a significant portion of that job is to get information from the community. Is there a dealer selling drugs? Did someone overhear a terrorist plot? Is there an extortionist shaking down business owners? Is there someone street racing where kids play? All these things are often observed by the community. When there are good community relations, the members of that community are more willing to report crimes and volunteer information. When the community distrusts the police, they don’t get that information. Listen to what the chiefs of police say on this matter. They have given these kinds of reasons. It has nothing to do with being a social worker. It is the difference between being a cop on the beat who is on good terms with the people, or being a prison guard who has to maintain a distance from those he guards. You don’t want the police to have to do their job without community support. It just doesn’t work.

 

[Theo520]

Another object is to keep families together and to foster good community relations. It makes sense that we balance these objectives in a logical manner rather than pursuing one object with complete disregard for any other object.

Yes, families should be kept together. Children are the responsibility of their parents and should be raised by them. If parents are being deported, the children should go with them.

If the children are anchor babies and have a passport, they can come back when they are adults and can support themselves. They are the responsibility of their parents, not wards of the state.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

Another object is to keep families together and to foster good community relations. It makes sense that we balance these objectives in a logical manner rather than pursuing one object with complete disregard for any other object.

Yes, families should be kept together. Children are the responsibility of their parents and should be raised by them. If parents are being deported, the children should go with them.

If the children are anchor babies and have a passport, they can come back when they are adults and can support themselves. They are the responsibility of their parents, not wards of the state.

It sounds like you are arguing against the Dream Act, which is a separate question. But in addition to wanting to keep families together, the community relations argument that the police make still stands.

 

[Theo520]

the only way forward is through the fire, we must get illegal immigration under control.
I’m sorry if that makes people living and working here illegally feel uncomfortable.

I think Obama’s strategy only further served to undermine our immigration controls. Also there is nothing magical about the kids who came before the cut-off date vs those who came after, it’s arbitrary and unfair. It also increased the flow of illegals. As we saw with Reagan, such amnesties do not really make a difference beyond rewarding those who break immigration laws.

Australia has the right approach, they have zero tolerance for people breaking their immigration laws and since implementing the policy, they’ve dramatically reduced the problem.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

the only way forward is through the fire, we must get illegal immigration under control.
I’m sorry if that makes people living and working here illegally feel uncomfortable.

I don’t think you are looking for any balance between the goal of controlling immigration and the goal of not harming people. Deporting kids who know of no other land than the US or breaking up families does more than make someone feel uncomfortable. It destroys lives. That should not be done without serious consideration. Go ahead and enforce the border. Put high-tech monitoring systems in place. Maybe even build that stupid wall. That at least will not destroy lives like deportation. Lives of illegal immigrants have dignity too, and we should take that into consideration when we decide how to treat them.

 

[De_Maria]

They are not turning a blind eye to any crime except possibly being in the US without papers. It is just wrong to say they are…

You’re the one who said they are. You said they don’t want to deport criminals because they don’t want to separate families.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

They are not turning a blind eye to any crime except possibly being in the US without papers. It is just wrong to say they are…

You’re the one who said they are. You said they don’t want to deport criminals because they don’t want to separate families.

No, I said the police don’t want to enforce immigration law. I never said they are ignoring any other laws. And I didn’t say that they did it to keep families together. I said they did it to keep good community relations.

 

[De_Maria]

No, I said the police don’t want to enforce immigration law.

On criminal aliens.

I never said they are ignoring any other laws. And I didn’t say that they did it to keep families together. I said they did it to keep good community relations.

The reason doesn’t matter. If they are releasing criminals back into the community in order to keep them from being deported, they are ignoring other laws.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

No, I said the police don’t want to enforce immigration law.

On criminal aliens.

I never said they are ignoring any other laws. And I didn’t say that they did it to keep families together. I said they did it to keep good community relations.

The reason doesn’t matter. If they are releasing criminals back into the community in order to keep them from being deported, they are ignoring other laws.

No, they don’t ignore other laws.

 

[De_Maria]

They do if they release criminal aliens into the population.

 

[J_Peterson]

They are typically required to notify ICE if an undocumented immigrant commits a crime. Do you have any evidence that they aren’t notifying the feds in these cases? Where did you hear that claim? I could be wrong or it may depend on the city so you’re welcome to prove me wrong.

Our city is working through putting into law the police’s current practice of not notifying the feds unless a crime was committed; I guess making it an official sanctuary city. Now I see local people claiming that crime has skyrocketed as a result. This is nonsense because the police haven’t been doing anything different with undocumented people and it’s actually been steadily decreasing.

My point here is you need to be careful who you believe. There is a lot of misinformation out there regarding sanctuary cities and undocumented immigrants in general.

 

[pnewton]

Who is turning a blind eye to what crime?