ICE arrests nearly 450 illegal immigrants in sanctuary city raids

[pnewton]

I wish you would take your phony outrage

I do not know why you think you can judge the heart of another and call him “phony”. He was not alone in thinking that a meme which is used to threaten to shoot undocumented immigrants is highly immoral and inappropriate here. Jesus warned, “He who lives by the sword will die by the sword.”

This is not the place to promote violence.

 

[starshiptrooper]

Where was that meme?

I all saw was a picture of Clint Eastwood with a rifle kicking some trespassers off his property, very apropos.

 

[De_Maria]

Yes, the police are a group with power and influence. But they are not using that power to benefit their own family. So they are not exercising nepotism.

You’re still twisting the argument. Read what YOU said again:

The community has very little sympathy for bank robbers.
But they may have a great deal of sympathy for illegal immigrants in their family. That is the reason the police make this distinction.

Untrue. Some of those caught in the most recent raid had no criminal record, other than being here without papers.

If they were hanging out with criminals, that is why they got caught. Not because they were targeted.

I already showed how it is not nepotism.

No, you didn’t. You simply made an illogical claim. I explained to you why your claim was illogical and therefore, wrong.

 

[De_Maria]

You are absolutely right. An emotional response only clouds the issue. However, there is still a moral component that does apply and should matter to Catholics. These 450 that were detained may well be a very good thing. …

And that’s all we’re talking about. If you want to start another thread about why the Catholic Bishops feel the laws need to be changed, we can talk about that there. That’s another issue all together.

DISCUSSION FORUMS

Messages posted to threads should be on-topic. If you wish to discuss another topic, start a new thread.
https://forums.catholic-questions.org/faq

 

[Theo520]

Well, you may know better how a bishop should minister than literally every other bishop in the United States. But might I inquire exactly why you, if you were a bishop in the United States would focus on government reform in foreign country instead of the moral guidance of those in your own diocese

I’m pretty sure the Pope is the Bishop of the world,
Why is he focusing on the US rather than their home countries, as I indicated.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

You’re still twisting the argument. Read what YOU said again:

The community has very little sympathy for bank robbers.
But they may have a great deal of sympathy for illegal immigrants in their family. That is the reason the police make this distinction.

Let’s look at the dictionary definition again:

nepotism: “the practice among those with power or influence of favoring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs.”

Who are the ones with power and influence? Answer: The police. So if their actions (or non-actions) are nepotism, they would have to be favoring their relatives and friends. Whose relatives and friends? The police officers’ relatives and friends. But who are they favoring? The immigrant community. By and large, the immigrant community is not composed of family and friends of police officers. So the police are not acting so as to favor their family and friends. They are acting to favor the family and friends of the immigrant community, which is not police. So their actions do no fit the definition of nepotism. Is that clear now?

 

[De_Maria]

Let’s look at the dictionary definition again:

nepotism: “the practice among those with power or influence of favoring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs.”

Who are the ones with power and influence? Answer: The police.
So if their actions (or non-actions) are nepotism, they would have to be favoring their relatives and friends. Whose relatives and friends? The police officers’ relatives and friends. But who are they favoring? The immigrant community. By and large, the immigrant community is not composed of family and friends of police officers. So the police are not acting so as to favor their family and friends. They are acting to favor the family and friends of the immigrant community, which is not police. So their actions do no fit the definition of nepotism. Is that clear now?

So, you’re saying that the police are ignoring the crimes committed by a foreign group of people, who are in this country unlawfully, simply because they feel sympathy for family which they may or may not have in this country?

I wonder then, why they don’t ignore the crimes committed by citizens of this country? They throw them in jail without regard that these citizens are going to be separated from their moms, dads, brothers and sisters.

That sounds far fetched to me.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

So, you’re saying that the police are ignoring the crimes committed by a foreign group of people, who are in this country unlawfully, simply because they feel sympathy for family which they may or may not have in this country?

No. I will explain it again. The police want to succeed at their job of keeping order and peace in their city. To that end, they want to have the good will of the people they protect. It is not about the police themselves having sympathy for one group or another. It is a matter of what will assist them in the performance of their job. Having the good will of the community they serve means that members of that community are more likely to report crimes and more likely to inform the police when they have information that the police need. When the community does not trust the police, they clam up and don’t come forth with this useful information.

It has nothing to do with sympathies expressed by the police. It has everything to do with sympathies expressed by the community. If police want to be effective in enforcing the laws that are their prime concern (which don’t happen to be immigration law), they do well to listen to those sympathies, as the police chiefs have said.

 

[De_Maria]

No. I will explain it again. The police want to succeed at their job of keeping order and peace in their city. To that end, they want to have the good will of the people they protect. It is not about the police themselves having sympathy for one group or another. It is a matter of what will assist them in the performance of their job. Having the good will of the community they serve means that members of that community are more likely to report crimes

Which they will then proceed to ignore if they are committed by illegal aliens.

and more likely to inform the police when they have information that the police need. When the community does not trust the police, they clam up and don’t come forth with this useful information.

You seem to be saying that there are so many illegal aliens with criminal connections, that the police are afraid they will not be able to enforce the law without their help.

It has nothing to do with sympathies expressed by the police. It has everything to do with sympathies expressed by the community. If police want to be effective in enforcing the laws that are their prime concern (which don’t happen to be immigration law), they do well to listen to those sympathies, as the police chiefs have said.

So the illegal immigrant community is holding the people of this country hostage on the threat that they will not help the police solve any crimes of which they are aware if they pursue legal action against their family members who have committed crimes in this country.

Is that what you are saying?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

No. I will explain it again. The police want to succeed at their job of keeping order and peace in their city. To that end, they want to have the good will of the people they protect. It is not about the police themselves having sympathy for one group or another. It is a matter of what will assist them in the performance of their job. Having the good will of the community they serve means that members of that community are more likely to report crimes

No, the only crime they “ignore” is the crime of being in the US without papers. The other crimes they enforce the same on all groups, legal or illegal. They have never said otherwise.

You seem to be saying that there are so many illegal aliens with criminal connections, that the police are afraid they will not be able to enforce the law without their help.

Replace the word “criminal” with the word “community” and you’ve got it right.

So the illegal immigrant community is holding the people of this country hostage…

No, the legal immigrant community is sympathetic to their family and friends who happen to be illegal. The illegal ones are not the ones holding anyone hostage.

… on the threat that they will not help the police solve any crimes of which they are aware if they pursue legal action against their family members who have committed crimes in this country.

Is that what you are saying?

It is what the chiefs of police are saying. I am only reporting.

 

[De_Maria]

No. I will explain it again. The police want to succeed at their job of keeping order and peace in their city. To that end, they want to have the good will of the people they protect. It is not about the police themselves having sympathy for one group or another. It is a matter of what will assist them in the performance of their job. Having the good will of the community they serve means that members of that community are more likely to report crimes

I thought the legal citizens of this community were the members of the community they serve. I don’t see any legal citizens of this country claiming they will feel betrayed or afraid to report crime if criminal illegal aliens are prosecuted and deported.

No, the only crime they “ignore” is the crime of being in the US without papers.

1. Thanks for admitting that being in this country illegally, is a crime.
2. We’re talking about illegal aliens who have committed other crimes being deported.

The other crimes they enforce the same on all groups, legal or illegal. They have never said otherwise.

Yes, they have.

Again, the one’s being targeted, are the illegals who have committed other crimes.

No, the legal immigrant community is sympathetic to their family and friends who happen to be illegal. The illegal ones are not the ones holding anyone hostage.

On the contrary, the “legal” immigrant community lives in fear that their family and friends who are here in violation of the law will get them entangled in legal messes that can amount to thousands of dollars in fines.

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization or local government) commits a federal felony when he:

assists an alien whom he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him to obtain employment,
encourages that alien to remain in the U.S., by referring him to an employer, by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or
knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.
The Law Against Hiring or Harboring Illegal Aliens

[/quote]

It is what the chiefs of police are saying. I am only reporting.

[/quote]

They swore an oath to uphold the laws of this country. If they don’t want to do so, they should step down and someone should replace them who is going to do the job.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I thought the legal citizens of this community were the members of the community they serve. I don’t see any legal citizens of this country claiming they will feel betrayed or afraid to report crime if criminal illegal aliens are prosecuted and deported.

A legal child will certainly feel betrayed if his illegal father is deported. And it is not just aliens who are picked up for other crimes that can be deported, so don’t say it can’t happen.

On the contrary, the “legal” immigrant community lives in fear that their family and friends who are here in violation of the law will get them entangled in legal messes that can amount to thousands of dollars in fines.

If the police say these ethnic groups fear deportation of their family, I tend to believe them.

They swore an oath to uphold the laws of this country. If they don’t want to do so, they should step down and someone should replace them who is going to do the job.

The policy comes from the police chiefs with the support of their city leaders, The only ones calling for them to step down are outsiders from Washington.

 

[Theo520]

The policy comes from the police chiefs with the support of their city leaders, The only ones calling for them to step down are outsiders from Washington.

I think you know you have that backwards.

The policy comes from the city governance, they define the sanctuary city stratgey and city benefits they want extended to illegals. The police comply with their orders and may or may not have supported the strategy.

Historically, the main police objection was the cost of holding detainees for ICE pick-up. This is a valid complaint when the numbers are high and ICE is slow to fulfill their end of the transaction.

The fundamental issue is that we let the population of illegals grow so large in some communities, and the police are stuck with it. Stop providing illegal jobs and benefits, then majority will self deport.

 

[De_Maria]

A legal child will certainly feel betrayed if his illegal father is deported.

1. Any child will feel betrayed if his father is proven to be a criminal.
2. This isn’t about children’s feelings.
3. This is about the law of the United States being upheld, and about criminal aliens being deported so that the citizens of this country may be safe.

And it is not just aliens who are picked up for other crimes that can be deported, so don’t say it can’t happen.

I don’t have any idea what you’re talking about, but it isn’t part of this discussion. We’re talking about criminal aliens being deported.

If the police say these ethnic groups fear deportation of their family, I tend to believe them.

So far, its only you saying these things. I’ve never heard of such a thing. The only people that I know need to fear deportation are criminal aliens.

The policy comes from the police chiefs with the support of their city leaders, The only ones calling for them to step down are outsiders from Washington.

The only ones I know in support of these policies are democrats. Because they want to continue getting money for all illegal aliens in their city regardless of how much harm they are causing to the community at large.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

1. Any child will feel betrayed if his father is proven to be a criminal.
2. This isn’t about children’s feelings.
3. This is about the law of the United States being upheld, and about criminal aliens being deported so that the citizens of this country may be safe.

Even legal citizens are afraid of what will happen to them if their family members are deported. They do not trust that only hardened criminals will be affected. And ICE has not promised otherwise. It is about the feelings of those family members because those feelings affect how people interact with the police. They obviously feel more in danger from ICE than from the hardened criminals you keep talking about.

I don’t have any idea what you’re talking about, but it isn’t part of this discussion. We’re talking about criminal aliens being deported.

It is what you are talking about. But I am talking about things like this. Non-targets are being swept up in these raids. It is a fantasy that only those guilty of other crimes are being affected.

So far, its only you saying these things. I’ve never heard of such a thing. The only people that I know need to fear deportation are criminal aliens.

See the article cited above.

The only ones I know in support of these policies are democrats.

ad hominem.

 

[Theo520]

It’s like ripping off a band-aid, some discomfort is unavoidable,

once we start enforcing our laws and the number of illegals drops, the healing can begin.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

It’s like ripping off a band-aid, some discomfort is unavoidable,

once we start enforcing our laws and the number of illegals drops, the healing can begin.

Tearing apart families is quite a bit different from ripping off a band-aid.

 

[De_Maria]

Even legal citizens are afraid of what will happen to them if their family members are deported.

Off topic.

Non-targets are being swept up in these raids. It is a fantasy that only those guilty of other crimes are being affected.

Nothing is perfect. But criminals are the targeted group.

See the article cited above.

No one can control what people fear. But non-criminals are not targeted.

ad hominem.

Lol! I’m surprised. Libertarian?

 

[Theo520]

Tearing apart families is quite a bit different from ripping off a band-aid.

Why should the families be torn apart?

Children should be raised by their parents.
If they are an anchor baby, they can come back when they are adults.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Off topic.

The topic is police police toward enforcing immigration law, and the fears of the ethnic communities are a reason police give for their policy. So it is on topic.

Nothing is perfect. But criminals are the targeted group.

Nevertheless, the actual effect of the ICE actions is what drives the police policy.

No one can control what people fear. But non-criminals are not targeted.

Yet those non-targeted ones still get deported.

ad hominem.

Lol! I’m surprised. Libertarian?

It is an ad hominem because you attempt to discredit the policy by who it is that has embraced the policy. That is the very definition of an ad hominem attack. The should be clear to someone from any political party.