ICE tells students on visas they must leave US if schools go online-only

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It is very relevant here in PRINCIPLE.

billsherman . . .
As I’ve stated before, I am pro-life in all circumstances. No abortion. No death penalty.
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Fair enough.

But do you understand that abortion is an intrinsic evil?

And do you understand that the death penalty is NOT an intrinsic evil?

Because you conflating these issues may be confusing for lurkers even if you know these distinctions already.
 
The US government would be extremity short sighted to not recognise the benefits of keeping their foreign students during this period rather than forcing them home. For a country with a population famous for not being the particularly clever, keeping intelligent, engaged and educated people on its soil would ordinarily be a bonus.

Also, Could not the same argument apply to those on work visas? If workplaces have shut down and can only have working from home, whats the stop a demand for those on work visas to leave also?
 
billsherman said:
It has never been harder or more expensive to get a student visa to study here.
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And it’s never been easier to lose one. An acquaintance of mine had a bunch of restrictions that if she so much as toed the line on would have resulted in her visa getting revoked.
This decision is so poorly thought out and I seriously doubt a lot of students will be able to come back into the country as students for a very long time.
America really screwed up with this. If you’re going to kick out international students, at least think it through a little.
 
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billsherman said:
This has been addressed in several ways above, but to summarize:
  1. This is a temporary problem.
  2. Compliance might be impossible (travel bans)
  3. It is beyond any student’s control.
  4. Students have already been awarded the visas based on heightened requirements (including proving to the US’s satisfaction that they have the finances to support themselves).
  5. Students will suffer great harm.
  6. This policy serves no purpose other than to get rid of more immigrants.
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And then Americans announce their country is best in the world and get testy if it’s questioned. 🙃 Tell me, which other country in the world has revoked visas during the Covid crisis? I’ve seen extensions and other ways of accommodating travellers caught-up in this mess; but no: The current U.S. government has decided to revoke existing visas. Can’t make it up.
 
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Rubee said:
And then Americans announce their country is best in the world and get testy if it’s questioned. 🙃
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This in and of itself is a problem like weed roots. American exceptionalism has turned on itself and exposes no regard as to people as persons with hopes and aspirations of their own, furthermore if you don’t think like them it does not care. American exceptionalism has taken the liberty to rape and pillage countries of lesser origins of their natural resources without consequences due to the size of our war machine, and then have the bitter gall to call ourselves “great”…we have a history of stealing vs earning it. Our entitled bastions of pride.

It’s all been exposed, like systemic ills in any institution or ideology, eventually the light will draw out the truth.
 
Rubee what “case” are you making with a leftist communist nation coming to the same conclusion about visas as America?
 
China and the US are on opposite sides of the political spectrum but both are behaving like jingoistic nations that think they’re too good for the rest of the world.

Both are arrogant.

Arrogance never led to anything good.
 
billsherman said:
Full and unequivocal love for your neighbor, without exception.
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Thank you for reminding us just how completely unmindful of American economics that misguided policy is.

Let all see that this poster uses this viewpoint to assign a value to foreign lives that is above our neighbors’ lives under all circumstances. Every last cost is worth it to this poster, even if it bankrupts the entire country over and over again because no one will reciprocate the open borders that he wishes to force on us.

He has already stated that he is unmindful of at least one other country’s immigration policy. But then when called out for it, he says we shouldn’t care one bit about it, that other countries’ policies are not that important.

If he really and truly believes this with all his heart, let him go to the Asian and Muslim countries and preach to them.
 
news.mit.edu

MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations

MIT and Harvard have filed a lawsuit in response to the ICE and the DHS announcement that international students on F-1 visas will not be permitted to take a full online course load this fall while studying in the United States.
news.mit.edu news.mit.edu

MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations​

The following email was sent to the MIT community today from MIT President L. Rafael Reif.

To the members of the MIT community,

On Monday, in a surprising development, a division of Immigration and Customs Enforcement announced that it will not permit international students on F-1 visas to take a full online course load this fall while studying in the United States. As I wrote yesterday, this ruling has potentially serious implications for MIT’s international students and those enrolled at institutions across the country.

This morning, in response, MIT and Harvard jointly filed suit against ICE and the US Department of Homeland Security in federal court in Massachusetts. In the lawsuit, we ask the court to prevent ICE and DHS from enforcing the new guidance and to declare it unlawful.

The announcement disrupts our international students’ lives and jeopardizes their academic and research pursuits. ICE is unable to offer the most basic answers about how its policy will be interpreted or implemented. And the guidance comes after many US colleges and universities either released or are readying their final decisions for the fall – decisions designed to advance their educational mission and protect the health and safety of their communities.

Our international students now have many questions – about their visas, their health, their families and their ability to continue working toward an MIT degree. Unspoken, but unmistakable, is one more question: Am I welcome?

At MIT, the answer, unequivocally, is yes.

MIT’s strength is its people – no matter where they come from. I know firsthand the anxiety of arriving in this country as a student, excited to advance my education, but separated from my family by thousands of miles. I also know that welcoming the world’s brightest, most talented and motivated students is an essential American strength.

While we pursue legal protections for our international students, we will continue to stay in close touch with them through email and updates on the International Students Office’s website. If you have questions, you may write to the ISO at iso-help@mit.edu.

Sincerely,

L. Rafael Reif
 
Setting aside the morality of this, this is terrible public policy. Why does the US insist on educating the world and then kicking the educated out of the country? Don’t we want to reap the benefits of our educational system? How is this good for the US?
 
TMC said:
Why does the US insist on educating the world and then kicking the educated out of the country?
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I don’t think that this is the attitude of the USA as a whole.

Keep in mind that most of the public that participated in the last election didn’t choose this president.
 
I feel for the foreign students caught in this mess, but it is more complicated than most of the posts here. There was an existing regulation that you could not get a student visa if you were taking only online courses. It made plenty of sense at the time to prevent abuse of student visas. Congress could change the law if they wanted to do that, but too many want an issue to talk about more than a fix for a problem.

My niece started this year with a semester at the National University of Ireland in Galway. She had to apply for that opportunity and did a lot of work to get approved. Then she had to pay for her additional expenses, although the Jesuit university she attends charges enough for tuition that they should have included first class airfare. When Ireland closed down, my niece had to come home early and finish courses online.

Almost as bad, my niece just turned 21 two weeks ago, and all the bars in Illinois were closed. 😀
 
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Zzyzx_Road said:
Every last cost is worth it to this poster, even if it bankrupts the entire country over and over again because no one will reciprocate the open borders that he wishes to force on us.
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God was clear when he commanded us to love the immigrant and treat them exactly the same as the foreigner.

Perhaps the US would be a better place if we spent a little less time worried about cash flow, and a little more about following God’s commands.

When God commands, we should listen. Instead, many people come up with reasons why God didn’t really mean it.

God: “The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”

Americans: “Other people don’t do that, and it would be expensive. God obviously didn’t mean it.”
 
I also find it interesting that people assume people with beliefs like yours only apply it to America. Pretty sure Catholic bishops in most countries have a similar view of the various govts and their policies when they negatively affect a vulnerable group. They almost always speak for the poor and vulnerable in their countries, including foreigners. At least I know this is true in my home country.
 
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