If God became man

[DCNBILL]

How does one KNOW that the Holy Spirit is within them as opposed to the simple spirit of goodwill onto all men…

Through the 7 gifts He provides those in whom He dwells.

An atheist may have ideals that are morally praiseworthy, may stumble in his path to live them out, yet finds strength to constantly arise towards his praiseworthy goal. Is the atheist also guided by the Holy Spirit?

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The Holy Spirit comes to us from receiving the Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation.

 

[DCNBILL]

If Holy Spirit guided Church so why the Churchs have different thoughts? Why Christianity split into three parts and more in details? Could not Holy Spirit prevent that? .

The Holy Spirit guided the Church then, when things need to be corrected usually a crisis (danger, opportunity) arises and the Church responds with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Note that the Church remained.

 

[DCNBILL]

There are no conflicts between prophets but there are conflicts between us, people. Jesus had never claimed to be Son of God and that is a metaphorical term for Jesus. But some people think that term in an adventural and msytical way. The conflicts emerged from that.

Jesus made the claim that He could forgive sins. Who else but God can forgive sins?

 

[adrift]

But Jesus did not say that “I forgave your sin”.

Your are not correct
Mark 2 8,9

Jesus immediately knew in his mind what they were thinking to themselves, so he said, "Why are you thinking such things in your hearts?
Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise, pick up your mat and walk’?

But that you may** know **that the **Son of Man **has authority to forgive sins on earth" -

he said to the paralytic, “I say to you, rise, pick up your mat, and go home.”

You are trying to understand the Trinity.

The Mystery of the Trinity

There is a story that St. Augustine was walking on the beach contemplating the mystery of the Trinity. Then he saw a boy in front of him who had dug a hole in the sand and was going out to the sea again and again and bringing some water to pour into the hole. St. Augustine asked him, “What are you doing?” “I’m going to pour the entire ocean into this hole.” “That is impossible, the whole ocean will not fit in the hole you have made” said St. Augustine. The boy replied, “And you cannot fit the Trinity in your tiny little brain.” The story concludes by saying that the boy vanished because St. Augustine had been talking to an angel.

 

[hasantas]

Your are not correct
Mark 2 8,9

You are trying to understand the Trinity.

5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

So Jesus did not say I forgave your sin. I am not wrong. God forgives sins and God informed Jesus so Jesus had authority to declare that. Mark 2

To understand Trinity do I must trust mysteries and fictions? I have the better which is directly speech of God and never changed.

 

[hasantas]

The Holy Spirit guided the Church then, when things need to be corrected usually a crisis (danger, opportunity) arises and the Church responds with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Note that the Church remained.

Do anyone have or know a case of which Holy Spirit guide? To whom Holy Spirit speak? Or do Holy Spirit guide without people knowing?

 

[Bahman]

There are no conflicts between prophets but there are conflicts between us, people. Jesus had never claimed to be Son of God and that is a metaphorical term for Jesus. But some people think that term in an adventural and msytical way. The conflicts emerged from that.

Qur’an allow to retaliate enemies. If you enemy kill your father, mother and all neighbours what will you do? Qur’an order to do in peace:

94-O you who have believed, when you go forth [to fight] in the cause of Allah , investigate; and do not say to one who gives you [a greeting of] peace “You are not a believer,” aspiring for the goods of worldly life; for with Allah are many acquisitions. You [yourselves] were like that before; then Allah conferred His favor upon you, so investigate. Indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted. Nisa(4):94

But for evils here is the Qur’anic way:

34- And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend. Fussilat(41): 34

134- Who spend [in the cause of Allah ] during ease and hardship and who restrain anger and who pardon the people - and Allah loves the doers of good;Al-Imran(3):134

159- So by mercy from Allah , [O Muhammad], you were lenient with them. And if you had been rude [in speech] and harsh in heart, they would have disbanded from about you. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them and consult them in the matter. And when you have decided, then rely upon Allah . Indeed, Allah loves those who rely [upon Him]. Al-Imran(3):159

125-Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided. Nahl(16):125

etc…

The flowers are good but you just focus on thorns.

I don’t understand how your post is related to mine. I repeat the question again: Is there a conflict between two teaching when one ask to love your enemy and another say to kill your enemy.

 

[adrift]

5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

So Jesus did not say I forgave your sin. I am not wrong. God forgives sins and God informed Jesus so Jesus had authority to declare that. Mark 2

.

You are wrong. You leave out and ignore the following versus which proves you are wrong.

**But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins on earth" -

**

Quite clear that Jesus was the one forgiving sins.

To understand Trinity do I must trust mysteries and fictions? I have the better which is directly speech of God and never changed

First of all, the only fiction is yours. Second our tiny little minds cannot understand God. If you believe you can than as I said the fiction is yours. You do not have the direct speech of God as that is only your unsubstantiated belief. I believe that I have the direct word of God and that you have the fiction.

 

[adrift]

Do anyone have or know a case of which Holy Spirit guide? To whom Holy Spirit speak? Or do Holy Spirit guide without people knowing?

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always

But you will receive power when the holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, throughout Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth

And they were all filled with the holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues, 4 as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim.

‘It will come to pass in the last days,’ God says, 'that I will pour out a portion of my spirit upon all flesh. Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions, your old men shall dream dreams.

It would require several hundred books to answer your question thoroughly. However, I think it was a "gotcha: question anyway.

 

[DCNBILL]

It would require several hundred books to answer your question thoroughly. However, I think it was a "gotcha: question anyway.

Well replied.

 

[hasantas]

You are wrong. You leave out and ignore the following versus which proves you are wrong.

Quite clear that Jesus was the one forgiving sins.

First of all, the only fiction is yours. Second our tiny little minds cannot understand God. If you believe you can than as I said the fiction is yours. You do not have the direct speech of God as that is only your unsubstantiated belief. I believe that I have the direct word of God and that you have the fiction.

But also you ignore that part "thy sins be forgiven " And also Jesus is Son of Man but not Son of God as you underlined? As you see we can take and interpret scripture according to self thoughts. But we should look at general terms. According to general statements Jesus could not forgive sins.

Sorry my English is poor. I did not intend to say fiction but tale or story which related to St. Augustine.

 

[hasantas]

First of all, the only fiction is yours. Second our tiny little minds cannot understand God. If you believe you can than as I said the fiction is yours. You do not have the direct speech of God as that is only your unsubstantiated belief. I believe that I have the direct word of God and that you have the fiction.

Source of my belief is Qur’an. Qur’an is direct speech of God.You believe you have direct word of God but you have not. Bible is not direct word of God but of writers. Holy Spirit did not reveal anything after Jesus but Holy Spirit revealed Muhammed. And you assume Holy Spirit as another God but indeed Holy Spirit was just angel Gabriel.

 

[DCNBILL]

Source of my belief is Qur’an. Qur’an is direct speech of God.You believe you have direct word of God but you have not. Bible is not direct word of God but of writers. Holy Spirit did not reveal anything after Jesus but Holy Spirit revealed Muhammed. And you assume Holy Spirit as another God but indeed Holy Spirit was just angel Gabriel.

The Holy Spirit is not other God, the Holy Spirit is God just as The Father is God and Jesus the Son is God, three “persons” one God, three relationships within one Godhead. I do understand this is a bit difficult to understand, but hey He is God and way beyond our understanding, I do not understand but this is the way that God reveals Himself to us so I believe.

And yes the Holy Spirit did revealed God to us through the writers of the New Testament after the death and resurrection of Jesus the Christ.

 

[adrift]

But also you ignore that part "thy sins be forgiven " And also Jesus is Son of Man but not Son of God as you underlined? As you see we can take and interpret scripture according to self thoughts.

I didn’t ignore anything. What you ignore is that those who heard Jesus understood that it was He who was forgiving sins.

When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Child, your sins are forgiven.”
Now some of the scribes were sitting there asking themselves,
**“Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming. Who but God alone can forgive sins?” **
Jesus immediately knew in his mind what they were thinking to themselves, so he said, “Why are you thinking such things in your hearts?
Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise, pick up your mat and walk’?
But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins on earth” -
he said to the paralytic, “I say to you, rise, pick up your mat, and go home.”
He rose, picked up his mat at once, and went away in the sight of everyone. They were all astounded and glorified God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this.”

It is obvious that they thought Jesus was forgiving sins.

But we should look at general terms. According to general statements Jesus could not forgive sins.

I have no idea what you mean by general terms. However, Jesus said that He forgave sins.

But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins on earth

Furthermore Jesus gives the power to forgive sins to His apostles.

“If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

Sorry my English is poor. I did not intend to say fiction but tale or story which related to St. Augustine

.
Thank you for clearing it up.

 

[hasantas]

I didn’t ignore anything. What you ignore is that those who heard Jesus understood that it was He who was forgiving sins.

It is obvious that they thought Jesus was forgiving sins.

I have no idea what you mean by general terms. However, Jesus said that He forgave sins.
.
.

6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

7 And he arose, and departed to his house.

8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men. Matthew 9

Jesus is called Son of man but not Son of God. So what that means? And also God give such power unto men(Jesus, son of man). As I mentioned God give authority of miracles and declaring but Jesus as son of man(human) has no authority by Himself.

Jesus never said " I forgave sin" There is no such thing but you claim Jesus said. Then show the verse. It is said your sins forgiven.

 

[hasantas]

The Holy Spirit is not other God, the Holy Spirit is God just as The Father is God and Jesus the Son is God, three “persons” one God, three relationships within one Godhead. I do understand this is a bit difficult to understand, but hey He is God and way beyond our understanding, I do not understand but this is the way that God reveals Himself to us so I believe.

And yes the Holy Spirit did revealed God to us through the writers of the New Testament after the death and resurrection of Jesus the Christ.

Why did father not come but Holy Spirit came? So Holy Spirit fall off and has journey and came to world! Do a god get travel? God is beyond of time and space so God do not travel. That statements point that Holy Spirit is not God or part of God but just an angel. Because Holy Spirit came to prophet to reveal.

 

[adrift]

6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

7 And he arose, and departed to his house.

8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men. Matthew 9

Jesus is called Son of man but not Son of God. So what that means? And also God give such power unto men(Jesus, son of man). As I mentioned God give authority of miracles and declaring but Jesus as son of man(human) has no authority by Himself.

Jesus is the Son of God
“So the one title, Son of Man, had a dual purpose: to lay claim to Christ’s unique nature, which was both human and divine.”

Jesus never said " I forgave sin" There is no such thing but you claim Jesus said. Then show the verse. It is said your sins forgiven.

I have provided it to you. It is clear that Jesus is the one who is forgiving the sins. The accusation of blasphemy by the religious leaders conclusively shows that Jesus was ascribing to himself divine prerogatives belonging to God alone.

“Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming. Who but God alone can forgive sins?”

What you say is that Jesus says that “your sins are forgiven” is not Him saying that I forgive your sins. Yet Jesus does not say that God forgives your sins but He does say that He is the one forgiving the sins

But that you may know that the Son of Man has** authority to forgive sins on earth" - **

So your statement that Jesus is not forgiving sins is nonsensical and ignores what Jesus is saying.

Jesus also gave this authority to His Apostles
John 20:

Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained

23

 

[adrift]

Why did father not come but Holy Spirit came?

Seriously?
You ask why God does something?

So Holy Spirit fall off and has journey and came to world!

This makes no sense to me. What journey?

Do a god get travel?

You are the one making this statement as I have stated it makes no sense. Perhaps the language barrier is a problem again?

God is beyond of time and space so God do not travel

.
Yes God is outside of time but He also created time. He controls everything so He can be in time if He wishes.

That statements point that Holy Spirit is not God or part of God but just an angel. Because Holy Spirit came to prophet to reveal.

I know that is your belief. The belief that the Holy Spirit is an angel is not supported by Scripture.

 

[hasantas]

Jesus is the Son of God
“So the one title, Son of Man, had a dual purpose: to lay claim to Christ’s unique nature, which was both human and divine.”

I have provided it to you. It is clear that Jesus is the one who is forgiving the sins. The accusation of blasphemy by the religious leaders conclusively shows that Jesus was ascribing to himself divine prerogatives belonging to God alone.

What you say is that Jesus says that “your sins are forgiven” is not Him saying that I forgive your sins. Yet Jesus does not say that God forgives your sins but He does say that He is the one forgiving the sins

So your statement that Jesus is not forgiving sins is nonsensical and ignores what Jesus is saying.

Jesus also gave this authority to His Apostles
John 20:
23

So if Jesus could forgive sins but why did He die for our sins? Why didn’t Jesus say to Father that He could forgive sins without being sacrifice?

 

[hasantas]

Jesus is the Son of God
“So the one title, Son of Man, had a dual purpose: to lay claim to Christ’s unique nature, which was both human and divine.”

So you accept that Jesus also was a prophet by His human nature?