If There Is No Heaven Will You Still Love God?

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empther said:
Or…

…if there were no Heaven and hell there would be no justice. But God is justice.

Any attribute of God is his essence.
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Attributes of God is not God. His attributes are just that, his atributes.
 
turnepr said:
Wel, at the risk of taking a beating

I

1.) Will admit to not being a good Catholic, but a fair Christian. I attend a Disciples of Christ church (who does believe in Heaven and Hell).

2.) I do not believe in Heaven or Hell. I believe that is what we live here on earth, controled by how we live our lives, poorly, or obedient to the Lord.

3.) Yes, I STILL Love my God with all my Heart and Soul, knowing he hath provided for me wonders upon wonders.

So, mine is not hypothetical. You may disagree, but for me the question is very real, AND easily answered

Y-E-S!
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I find it in a way sad that a Christian does not believe in heaven or hell.

At the same time however, I really like your post because as you said for you, it is not hypothetical. And yet here you are giving a very firm Yes. I suppose one could say that you truly love God just for Himself alone and I think that is wonderful.
 
benedictus2 said:
That reasoning is flawed as it makes God contingent upon heaven. God is the Alpha and the Omega. Whether heaven is a place or a state of being it proceeds and depends upon God’s existence not the other way around.

God would still be God even if there is no heaven unless you go with the line of thinking that heaven is God.
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There’s no way for us to know for sure either way. But I would tend to believe that heaven, or eternal life, proceeds from the nature of God-that He would not create beings with reason and free will who grasp that existence is good and can’t but desire to continue to possess it and then just wipe them out. I think that would militate against the love and mercy of the Christian God.
 
benedictus2 said:
Attributes of God is not God. His attributes are just that, his atributes.
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If God is not His attributes, then what is God? Can you really separate God from His attributes?

God is LOVE
God is All KNOWING
God is ALL Powerful
God is Eternal
God is Justice
God is Good
God is Kind

If God is not His attributes, please explain to me what God is without mentioning His attributes !!!
 
MariaG:

And if he were a chaotic God, and hell was still a possibility?

Andy
 
benedictus2 said:
This is also flawed reasoning because it makes God’s existence contingent on belief. God was before anything ever was. God has no beginning everything else was created by Him. Even if He should decree that we were not to share eternal life with Him, He would still be God.

But anyway, the point of the question is not so much whether heaven exists or not but whether we would still believe in God even if we were not rewarded with heaven, even if there is no eternal life. If all we will know of life and of God is what we know now, would we still love Him?
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yeah i guess you could be right but heaven is His throne
matthew 23:22 And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

if there is no heaven why would Jesus say in John 14:2-3 In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

yeah, He would still be God but it would be contrary to His character cause heaven is a place He created so that we might spend eternity with Him but if He did not desire this then He would be a God who just created us not revealing HImself to us so then we go to the beginning of creation why did He create us? why did He send His Son? Why is He coming back?

the reason we know God is cause He revealed Himself to us through Jesus Christ. my friend God is love 1 john 4:7-21.

so take away heaven then we don’t know God cause heaven is a place where we are going to spend eternity with Him, what greater love?

i hear a lot of people say, ‘i found Jesus’, Jesus is not lost to be found, we are. the bible says that if we seek out the Lord, He will draw near to us. God does the saving cause that is His desire, His character; love.

peace
 
Jerry_Marino said:
so take away heaven then we don’t know God cause heaven is a place where we are going to spend eternity with Him, what greater love?

peace
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While being in Heaven will be an indescribable amazing thing in and off itself - that is NOT the greatest reality of God’s love in Heaven.

It is not WHERE we will be that is so amazing, but WHO we will be in Heaven.
The love of God is seen most in WHO we will be in Heaven - adopted sons and daughters of God sharing and having the same relationship with God the Father that Christ has always had for ALL eternity (the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity).

We too can call God - “ABBA” … “FATHER” … “DADDY” … because we too ARE HIS CHILDREN.

We are called to have the exact SAME relationship with God the Father that God the Son has always had. What is what makes Heaven so completely amazing for me is NOT where we will be … but WHO we will be.

There is no greater LOVE or Blessing in the Heavens than to be ACTUAL adopted sons and daughters of the Living God - sharing in the sonship of Christ.

**"How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! " 1 John 3:1 **
 
the question
“If There Is No Heaven Will You Still Love God?”
is as silly as
"If There Is No Food, Will You Still be Nourished well?"

God created us for the single reason, that we share heaven with God.
 
After all these posts I myself can only say it must come down to this; Our love of God should be based on His love for us and all He has done for and given us not on what we may get out of it. But How could there be no heaven if heaven is where we join with God, regardless of the “location”? There is a God certainly and heaven is where He is.
 
If there is no hell, I will still love God.

Blessings,
granny

All human beings, including you and me, were loved into existence by God.
 
twb1621 said:
After all these posts I myself can only say it must come down to this; Our love of God should be based on His love for us and all He has done for and given us not on what we may get out of it. But How could there be no heaven if heaven is where we join with God, regardless of the “location”? There is a God certainly and heaven is where He is.
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Heaven is “where He is”? I’m not so sure I agree.

Right now as I type these words … God is present … God is present because if God were not present … I would not exist … God is even present with the Devil in Hell … why is this? because the Devil would not even exist if God did not think and will him to exist … All created reality exists only because God is present and is giving existence.

Therefore if IT IS TRUE that Hell exists because God is present and willing all contingent existence, is it really true that “Heaven is where God is”? I don’t think so.
 
**No! God is NOT in hell. Satan exists without God. God doesn’t always remain to be with all He created. Satan was created as Angel and good. He decided to fight versus God and was thrown out of heaven into another place far from heaven with a deep gap between heaven and hell. Only Jesus once went to hell to get these people out who could not get to heaven before Christs salvation.

By inspiration of the Holy Spirit and from Jesus who often mentioned hell and the angels we know, that ages before the creation of earth and Adam, God had created heaven with the Angels and a terrible lot happened, unmatchable to anything that ever happened on earth, which led to the fall of the legions of Lucifer and “creation” of hell, separated from all other existing, by a insuperable gap - see Luc 16,26:

“And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us”.
**
 
Bruno_Schulz said:
**No! God is NOT in hell. Satan exists without God. God doesn’t always remain to be with all He created. Satan was created as Angel and good. He decided to fight versus God and was thrown out of heaven into another place far from heaven with a deep gap between heaven and hell. Only Jesus once went to hell to get these people out who could not get to heaven before Christs salvation.

By inspiration of the Holy Spirit and from Jesus who often mentioned hell and the angels we know, that ages before the creation of earth and Adam, God had created heaven with the Angels and a terrible lot happened, unmatchable to anything that ever happened on earth, which led to the fall of the legions of Lucifer and “creation” of hell, separated from all other existing, by a insuperable gap - see Luc 16,26:

“And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us”.
**
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I respectfully disagree with you. You don’t understand the context of what I meant.

All of created reality is held in existence by God moment by moment. The Devil is a created being whose existence is also dependant on God.

Nothing can exist unless God thinks and wills it to exist. In this context GOD IS PRESENT with all created reality … including the Devil in Hell. The Devil in Hell only continues to exist because God is willing and giving them existence. In that context, God is present with the Devil who is in Hell. For Hell to exist, God must also be present (ie - thinking and willing it’s existence) … otherwise it would not exist.

A thought in your mind exists as long as you think it. You and I … and the whole universe are literally “held in the Palm of God’s hand” … because God is giving us existence. If God should for one brief moment stop thinking of you or me or the univerise … it would CEASE TO BE.
 
I have tried for years to form some conception of Heaven, but I can’t, so I pretty much believe in Heaven because I believe in God.

Strangely, I don’t have any problem envisioning the second coming.
 
**
jkiernan56 said:
God is present with the Devil who is in Hell. For Hell to exist, God must also be present
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Well, that’s a private philosophy, hardly shared by many, for there are too many wrong conclusions included.
Though God can end the existence of Satan and Hell any time, God doesn’t have to be there for it to exist.

Murderers and child abusers, God-haters live, though God is not with them. When a human decides to live without God, he will live – until he is judged and send to eternal death (Joh 3,15-16; 6,47-51; 11,25-26).
jkiernan56 said:
A thought in your mind exists as long as you think it
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No, it goes on existing in the person who thought it and will be remembered later. Otherwise we’d loose all thoughts.
Agabus said:
I can’t form any conception of Heaven… believe in Heaven because I believe in God… no problem envisioning the second coming.
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According to Exodus 20,4 and Deuteronomic 5,8 we are not allowed to form any conception of Heaven nor God! none of us, not even the pope himself knows more, than what Jesus told us, when He said as St. Paul recited in 1 Cor 2:9: “what no eye ever has seen, no ear ever has heard, no mind ever has conceived, God has prepared for those who love Him”**
 
Bruno_Schulz said:
**

Well, that’s a private philosophy, hardly shared by many, for there are too many wrong conclusions included.
Though God can end the existence of Satan and Hell any time, God doesn’t have to be there for it to exist.

Murderers and child abusers, God-haters live, though God is not with them. When a human decides to live without God, he will live – until he is judged and send to eternal death (Joh 3,15-16; 6,47-51; 11,25-26).

No, it goes on existing in the person who thought it and will be remembered later. Otherwise we’d loose all thoughts.

According to Exodus 20,4 and Deuteronomic 5,8 we are not allowed to form any conception of Heaven nor God! none of us, not even the pope himself knows more, than what Jesus told us, when He said as St. Paul recited in 1 Cor 2:9: “what no eye ever has seen, no ear ever has heard, no mind ever has conceived, God has prepared for those who love Him”**
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What I said earlier IS NOT PRIVATE THEOLOGY.
You obviously do not understand theology .101

If you do not understand contingent existence, I highly recomment Frank Sheed “Theology for Beginners”

God loves even the child abuser, molester, murderers. God is not the cause of their sin, but God still loves them and is with them … pursuing them … just as God is pursuing you and me … God does not give up on anyone.
 
Bruno_Schulz said:
**

Though God can end the existence of Satan and Hell any time, God doesn’t have to be
**

You acknowledge that everything God created (brought into being/existence) continues in existence because God wills it’s existence.

God has to be present for anything to exist.
God has to be present for the Devil or Hell to exist.
Otherwise, it would not exist.

Only GOD HAS TO EXIST.
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**
jkiernan56 said:
God loves even the child abuser
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Oh Dear - I highly recomment Frank Sheed “Theology for Beginners”
but for a start, begin with Matthew 18:6
“Whoever causes one of these little ones 5 who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”
**
 
**>Originally Posted by jkiernan:
God loves even the child abuser…<

Oh Dear - I highly recomment Frank Sheed “Theology for Beginners”
but for a start, begin with Matthew 18:6
“Whoever causes one of these little ones 5 who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”
**
 
**
jkiernan56 said:
You acknowledge that everything God created (brought into being/existence) continues in existence because God wills it’s existence.
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I did not say as you wrongly quoted:
Though God can end the existence of Satan and Hell any time, God doesn’t have to be

but I wrote:
Though God can end the existence of Satan and Hell any time, God doesn’t have to be there for it to exist.

God never is in Hell nor with a child abuser - just so they can go on existing.

**
 
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