If voting republican doesn't change Abortion laws, then why vote Republican?

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dmelosi said:
That line of thinking would make it ok to kill anyone as long as the person they kill go to heaven.
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No it doesn’t. Dwelling with God just makes the dead less likely to be upset about their status as deceased.
 
Joe_5859 said:
Do you recognize the fact that giving up and “moving on” from the issue means that things will certainly not change?

This is exactly what the pro-choice crowd has been trying to tell us for 45 years and it’s simply not true. If it were settled to the point where we needn’t concern ourselves over it, then there would be no pro-life movement.

What if we adopted such a view with regards to slavery? Or civil rights and racial discrimination?

Evil flourishes when good people do nothing. But good can happen when people courageously stand up for what is right.
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:clapping:
 
Joe_5859 said:
Do you recognize the fact that giving up and “moving on” from the issue means that things will certainly not change?

This is exactly what the pro-choice crowd has been trying to tell us for 45 years and it’s simply not true. If it were settled to the point where we needn’t concern ourselves over it, then there would be no pro-life movement.

What if we adopted such a view with regards to slavery? Or civil rights and racial discrimination?

Evil flourishes when good people do nothing. But good can happen when people courageously stand up for what is right.
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On the surface this seems like a good argument.

But i need only ask one thing to reveal the fallacy.

Did we change slavery by voting for the president?
 
Vonsalza said:
Thank God for the progressives, amen? 😉
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Actually, my friend, the Republicans did that. The Republican “slogan” has always been that “we are all equal under the law.”

The Republican Party has always promoted that we are all 1 race: Humans
The Democratic Party has always participated in playing one race (or group of people) against another.
 
Vonsalza said:
I thought Kennedy pushed the Civil Rights Act and LBJ got it signed? Both Democrats?
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At the time of the Civil Rights Act, there was a whole bunch of Southern Democrat legislators in Southern states vehemently opposing it. The Civil Rights Act got passed because the North supported it, which included Republicans as well as Northern Democrats. The Democratic Party was definitely not speaking with one voice on the Civil Rights Act.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
At the time of the Civil Rights Act, there was a whole bunch of Southern Democrat legislators in Southern states vehemently opposing it.
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Absolutely. Most of the survivors and their ideological descendants seem to vote dominantly repub these days; as we pretty readily see in the news.

I’m sure the dems were glad to hand 'em over to the repubs.
 
Vonsalza said:
Absolutely. Most of the survivors and their ideological descendants seem to vote dominantly repub these days; as we pretty readily see in the news.

I’m sure them dems were glad to hand 'em over to ya.
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Who’s “ya”? I’ve been a registered Democrat my whole life.
 
IWantGod said:
This is precisely why i started this thread. The only reason they say they are pro life is so they can get votes. Short of a civil war they are not going to stop Abortion.
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I see I misunderstood the point of this thread. I was under the impression that you were genuinely asking what other parts of the republican platform attracted voters. Apparently the real point was to call everyone who has ever voted for Republicans a gullible fool because Republicans “aren’t really pro-life”, according to some kind of obscure set of unacheivable criteria which seems to revolve around “abortion is still legal so Republicans haven’t done anything about it”. Got it.
IWantGod said:
Well actually no it isn’t. If i voted for democrats it would be for reasons that have nothing to do with promoting abortion.

Well, as i have said, voting for the other side does not ban abortion. Is trump going to stop abortion? Are you kidding me? There a clearly limitations involved that have nothing to do with who you vote for.
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“Look, I voted for the guy because he brought our manufacturing back to life, stabilized the currency, and built really impressive roads. The whole “kill the Jews” thing was just one part of his platform”. :rolleyes:
 
IWantGod said:
On the surface this seems like a good argument.

But i need only ask one thing to reveal the fallacy.

Did we change slavery by voting for the president?
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I don’t see the fallacy, so perhaps you can explain it to me. Did politicians play no role whatsoever in the end of slavery? In the furtherance of the civil rights movement?

Yes, we need to change the culture. Yes, we need grassroots movements with people who are committed to justice and human dignity. But we also need politicians who aren’t working against us. Voting for elected officials isn’t the only thing we should be doing to promote a culture of life. But we do need to do it. There’s little chance of laws changing if we just resign ourselves to accepting politicians who want abortion enshrined in the law in perpetuity.

I have to ask (and I mean no disrespect in doing so), but do those who consider themselves Democrat just honestly think that abortion is no big deal? I mean, I don’t want to make any assumptions about what people are thinking. But whenever we get into these types of discussions, I just get the general impression that those who are favoring the Democrats simply think (deep down) that abortion is just not that big of a deal.

I’d be happy to be wrong about that. I just don’t think I’ve ever seen someone who supports the Democrats say how truly vile and reprehensible abortion is. The attitude seems more like “Yeah, it’s kind of a bad thing, I guess, but whatchya gonna do? 🤷”. I mean, I can understand that tendency. It’s easier to gloss over abortion’s true horror than it would be if 1 year olds were being routinely dismembered and thrown in the trash by the millions. We don’t see the babies getting killed in the womb. We don’t hear their stories. We don’t feel their pain. But they are no less human and deserving of life than any of us. It just seems to me that the only way one could possibly convince themselves that abortion is not the primary factor in one’s voting is if they simply don’t really (deep down) see the unborn as fully human the same way as everyone else.

If I’m way off base with these observations, I’ll happily take correction. I don’t like to put words in people’s mouths nor impugn their motives. So if there are other explanations, I’m happy to hear them.
 
Vonsalza said:
Absolutely. Most of the survivors and their ideological descendants seem to vote dominantly repub these days; as we pretty readily see in the news.

I’m sure the dems were glad to hand 'em over to the repubs.
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I’m going to be honest with you here… I don’t personally know a single, hateful racist Republican. I know of racists who are registered as independents or as third parties who sometimes (or even often) vote Republican in national elections, but then they also vote for some Democrats in elections too, especially local ones.

It is impossible for a white supremacists are not loyal to the Republican Party. White Supremacists want to keep abortion legal and want Planned Parenthood in minority neighborhoods.

Some guys, like David Duke register Republican when it suits their purposes. Using Duke as an example: He was a registered “American Nazi” until 1975, then registered as a Democrat until 1988, then a registered Populist for one year. In 1989, he registered as a Republican for 10 years, then registered with the Reform Party in 1999. He just re-registered as a Republican in 2016 (most likely to vote in the Republican Primary, like a lot of people did).

People like David Duke are not Conservatives and have a hard time fitting in with the Republican Party. The party has historically been party that defended blacks and was also the party of devout Catholics. Catholics didn’t join the Democrats until the same time blacks started joining the Democrats, which was due to “plantation style” politics in the big cities, which was performed by Democrats. Orthodox Catholics have a lot of power in the Religious Right, and part of the Religious Right is often called the “Catholic Right” of the Republican Party.

Nazis hate Catholics, so they have huge problems with Republicans like Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Paul Ryan, Justice Clarence Thomas, etc. The Catholic Right, is not to be underestimated in the Republican Party, and is gaining strength.
Even as Catholic voters first began to shift their loyalties in terms of presidential elections, the House of Representatives remained a Catholic Democrat bastion. In 2009, there were almost three times as many Catholic Democrats as Catholic Republicans — 98 Democrats to 37 Republicans. But as of 2015, House Republicans who identify as Catholic outnumber Catholic Democrats — 69 to 68 — for the first time ever.
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salon.com/2015/03/15/the_democratic_party_is_facing_a_catholic_apocalypse/

My point - Nazis are fascists, not conservatives. White Supremacists are not loyal to the Republican Party. And honestly, I strongly feel this grouping of the evils of white supremacy with Republicans is a way that the Democrats are using to try to pull the White Catholic vote back, which they have lost.

Again - I don’t personally know a single racist who is a registered Republican. But I personally know of plenty who are registered as independents, third parties and even as Democrats.

NOTE: when I said I don’t know a “single, hateful racist Republican,” I’m not including people who have some mild prejudices. Those people are everywhere and in both parties. I’ve heard Democrats say “don’t go to Six Flags this weekend because too many Puerto Ricans will be there” (they didn’t know my mother is Puerto Rican). I’m referring to hateful people who hate minorities and/or white supremacists.
 
Vonsalza said:
You support a party that’s just simply never going to change it. How is that not a total waste of your support?
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And you support a Party in favour of abortion, homosexual “marriage”, transgenderism, euthanasia, contraception, and removing religion from the public square. How is that a Party anybody that calls themselves Catholic can support? Be a Catholic or be someone that votes for pro abortion candidates.
 
IWantGod said:
This is for single issue voters.

If voting republican doesn’t change Abortion laws, then why vote Republican?

Why vote for a candidate simply because he is pro-life when doing so doesn’t change anything?
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It’s because the impact of what they do is not limited to voting outright to outlaw or restrict abortion procedures directly. They vote or act on funding for programs and set in motion regulations which impact on abortion and other pro-life issues under many statutes. A pro-life candidate is less likely to by lured by false compassion into voting to legalize anti-life legislation or to vote to fund it with taxpayer dollars.

I thought about that a lot in 2008, when Senators McCain and Obama were running for the office of President. Senator John McCain ran as anti-abortion. I figured he at least would avoid expanding the scope of federal funding for abortion. Senator Obama said he wanted to abortion to be safe legal and rare. However, on his first working week in office, same time as the annual national March for Life, he signed presidential executive orders which allowed federal funding for abortions in foreign aid packages. Guess once he got elected he didn’t need the pro-life vote.

A candidate who states he is anti-abortion but would not dream of imposing his values on others is not going to be as helpful as one who says he is anti-abortion, recognizes that the majority of americans think some abortion should be allowed, and works to at least limit the damage of roping all of us taxpayers into funding it.
 
DeoVindice1863 said:
And you support a Party in favour of abortion, homosexual “marriage”, transgenderism, euthanasia, contraception, and removing religion from the public square. How is that a Party anybody that calls themselves Catholic can support? Be a Catholic or be someone that votes for pro abortion candidates.
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You’re aware that a sizable portion of the Republican rolls are Libertarians, right? These people are generally “Republican” on things like the role and size of government.

But on social issues, these “Republicans” are about as liberal as any you could find among Democrats.

Such to my original point; folks are members of broad, “catch-all” political parties for very different reasons. The reason this pro-life Democrat is not a Republican is because their economic and tax policies generally fit my paradigm better. I think those things are simply more pertinent in day-to-day governance. You disagree, which is fine.

I was a Republican from 18 until my 30s. Why did I change? They proved to be either unwilling or incapable of affecting real change on the dominantly social issues that convinced me to be a Republican in the first place (referring to the 4 years during Bush 2 when we Reps controlled both houses and the presidency).

When I give less weight to social issues and more weight to other issues pertaining to secular governance, I found I was far, far more a Democrat on those issues than a Republican. Thus I switched. 🤷

Yeah, I’m a Rooseveltian Democrat in an age where most Dems aren’t. But I’m still, over all, closer to them than I am the Republicans; especially when I spit out the superficial religiosity that the Republicans successfully baited me with for so long.
 
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