If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 3

[Leeann]

Hi - first time in this thread…as you can see I’ve been trying to find a thread that applies in some way to my original query that I posted last week in “infant baptism”…as indicated at that time and in that posting…I wasn’t quite sure where to go with it…so used the “limbo” theory - in relation to the “infant baptism” topic to try and find some answers with regards to the “certainty” of RC believers, that what they have and are being taught is indeed the doctrine/dogma that Christ originally entrusted to His apostles.

Originally Posted by Leeann last week in the “Infant Baptism” thread.

"Hello - it’s my first time in here.

I have been reading the posts and I’m not certain if my comments fall into this thread “infant baptism” or not - as my comments have more to do with my questioning the apparent “certainty” of most of the replies, based on how they view the church’s (RC) teaching as being “absolutely correct”.

The reason I wonder at their certainty of absolute correctness in how this particular practice is administered and why, is due to the recent retraction by this same church, of the teaching of the “theory” of limbo for “infants who die without being baptized”,

Does it not raise concerns as to the validity of other doctrines and practices that are or have been taught in the past as being “absolutely correct”…when a “theory” - not an “official doctrine” has been just left there and allowed to be taught for so many years…and then is retracted?

It is an honest and sincere question?
Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. "

This thread now, "** If you are a Christian what is the real reason **for not being a Catholic?" seems a more appropriate one to pose that question, and the question itself explains why I as a believer, am not a Catholic.
The question of “credibility” in the “sole authority” and all that it encompasses.
Any insights or (name removed by moderator)ut is greatly appreciated.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Why are you the author of so many threads here all bashing for the most part other faiths? This is the forum for non Roman Catholics I thought wherein we can discuss issues about differences in faith. You seem to want to argue with everyone that your’s is somehow first and best. That would not be the way to convince anyone. Can’t you see that? I think you protest too much. Cannot you accept that other people are perfectly happy in their own faith tradition and, and like you also think theirs is best? I don’t have any reason to tell you that, but I’m quite tired of being told that we owe everything to you. You’re a good reason for people to reject Catholicism it seems rather then inquire into it.

Hello AlexiaMusing,

Why do you consider a Roman Catholic, who is posting from a Roman Catholic perspective, “bashing other faiths”? I am discussing issues and differences that Catholics and non-Catholic Christians have.

I am defending my Catholic faith.

Are Protestant, non-Catholics the only ones here, in your opinion, the only ones who are “allowed” to defend their faiths or their beliefs? Am I’m not allowed to post something here that you and other Protestants here disagree with?

Do Protestants come here for Catholic answers, or do they come here to prostelyze, confuse and convert Catholics. If you are here for answers, then you shouldn‘t mind the a Catholic perspective…or Catholic opinion…right?

Why aren’t you and other non-Catholic Christians here, discussing the differences between your many thousands of different, non-Catholic Christian denominations? Why is all of the emphasis here by non-Catholic Christians… on Catholics…is it because there are some here who are anti-Catholic?

Is it because you and others here are willing to compromise your own faiths, and your own beliefs for the sake of ecumenicalism?

Is it because it’s true that for the most part that Protestant non-Catholic Christians, are in many ways…. still protesting the Catholic Church?

If you have Biblical or historical evidence, which supports your denomination as being the One True Church of Christ, then please post is here.

Why should anyone, for example, be Episcopalian as apposed to Baptist; or as apposed to Methodist; or Anglican; or Adventist; or Lutheran; or Pentecostal; or Jehovah’s Witnesses; or Mormon; or Quaker; or Calvinist; or Reformed; or “Born-Again”; or Evangelical; or Calvary Chapel; or Church of Christ; or Presbyterian; or Mennonites; or Branch Davidians and so on and so on……

All of these different Christian Denominations are different because they all have different beliefs. Some believe in the Real Presense of the Eucharist and some do not; Some believe in confessing to a priest and some do not; Some believe in all of the Creed and some in parts only; Some believe that Baptism is required and some do not; Some believe in “predestination” and some do not; Some believe in one version of the Ten Commandments and others believe in a different version….and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on ….approximatily 36,000 times.

Protestant errors have been a disaster for Christianity and these errors are why there exist, literally thousands of different non-Catholic, Christian denominations today. The Catholic Church and Catholic doctrine, cannot be blamed for all of the divisions and sub-divisions found in non-Catholic Christianity today.

I hope this helps, thank you for your post.

Peace

 

[AlexiaMusing]

I do not see any bashing going on here and what better place to find seperated brothers&sisters than here in N/C Religions. If you [as you say] don’t owe everything to the Catholic Church,then who? And come to think about it, the last line of your post your hitting Jimmy pretty hard[but I think he can handle it ok]

Threads such as:
Anglicans why don’t you come home to Rome?
If you are Christian what is the real reason for you not being Catholics?
What Church is God’s true church? Is it the RCC?
Why won’t non-Catholics recite the Holy Rosery?

these and others are arrogant and insulting. You assume that some how Rome is The church. It was the first consolidated as a multi-city entity, that I grant. But you cannot prove by any method that myriad of other offshoots are not the “true” church. They certainly are to the people who belong to them. They think that RCC adherents have gone astray and remain that way. I am not here to argue that. I find such arguments most unhelpful. We are all Christians and isn’t it time we spent our time discussing how we can work together on common issues rather than have childish debates about who is doing it right? I do find those who debate with an arrogance that “you use OUR bible” to be most unhelpful to their cause (which I assume is conversion). So I wonder why they do it? The more vocal and strident voices here are a turn off to anyone who might be seeking information about your faith. As I have stated, I was a RCC for 30 years, I have no questions. I am here to dialog about issues we can develop and work on together. But instead I find rancor and defensive jockeying for supremacy. It may occur on both sides, I haven’t been here long enough to see yet, but I see it quite clearly on one side.

If you cannot see that telling another than their faith is secondary and not as good as your’s then you don’t get insulting I guess.

 

[AlexiaMusing]

Hello AlexiaMusing,

Why do you consider a Roman Catholic, who is posting from a Roman Catholic perspective, “bashing other faiths”? I am

In what manner do yuo claim that I am compromising my faith? You know exactly nothing much at all about me. You are insulting me for no reason it seems.

Is it because it’s true that for the most part that Protestant non-Catholic Christians, are in many ways…. still protesting the Catholic Church?

You make a gross number of assumptions. I as I said, left the RCC over doctrinal differences. I have no interest in bashing anyone who is happy with the RCC. I am happy when anyone is satisfied with their faith tradition.

If you have Biblical or historical evidence, which supports your denomination as being the One True Church of Christ, then please post is here.

I have no more than you have. You believe what you like, proof is quite another thing.

Why should anyone, for example, be Episcopalian as apposed to Baptist; or as apposed to Methodist; or Anglican; or Adventist; or Lutheran; or Pentecostal; or Jehovah’s Witnesses; or Mormon; or Quaker; or Calvinist; or Reformed; or “Born-Again”; or Evangelical; or Calvary Chapel; or Church of Christ; or Presbyterian; or Mennonites; or Branch Davidians and so on and so on……

I have no clue what you are driving at, but another slur on all people who don’t adopt your faith tradition. It’s arrogant and presumptuous to say the least. Your not being at all charitable here it seems. Isn’t that required here?

All of these different Christian Denominations are different because they all have different beliefs. Some believe in the Real Presense of the Eucharist and some do not; Some believe in confessing to a priest and some do not; Some believe in all of the Creed and some in parts only; Some believe that Baptism is required and some do not; Some believe in “predestination” and some do not; Some believe in one version of the Ten Commandments and others believe in a different version….and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on ….approximatily 36,000 times.

Yes, so what has that to do with being rude and arrogant in your condemnation of all that is not what you believe?

Protestant errors have been a disaster for Christianity and these errors are why there exist, literally thousands of different non-Catholic, Christian denominations today. The Catholic Church and Catholic doctrine, cannot be blamed for all of the divisions and sub-divisions found in non-Catholic Christianity today.

You negate the possibility of course that it was RCC errors that split the church into pieces. You cannot even conceive that perhaps one of the splinter churches carried the truer (NOTE I DID NOT SAY TRUE) message of Christ. That is your issue not mine.

I hope this helps, thank you for your post.

Peace

 

[StMarina303ad]

**If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 3 **

Why aren’t you Catholic? Tell the truth.

Note:

“If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic -1?”

And

“If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic -2?”

Were closed because, they both exceeded the maximum number of posts.

Please, continue your remarks on this topic, here.

I’m not a Catholic because I’d never leave the true Church - the Orthodox Church for a partially true Church. I invite you and all Catholics and Protestants to come into the Orthodox Church where the Holy Spirit guides the ancient Church which Christ established. Orthodoxy has been around for 2,000 years without change! The same can never be said of the Catholic Church.

 

[celticcrusader]

I’m not a Catholic because I’d never leave the true Church - the Orthodox Church for a partially true Church. I invite you and all Catholics and Protestants to come into the Orthodox Church where the Holy Spirit guides the ancient Church which Christ established. Orthodoxy has been around for 2,000 years without change! The same can never be said of the Catholic Church.

Well I guess the Orthodox beats out the Catholic Church, we have only been around 1,975 years.

 

[celticcrusader]

AlexiaMusing: how saddenedI was when I read your post that you left Holy Mother Church over what you call doctrinal differences, I am so sorry you could not work out your problems. I guess this has been an issue throughout history [Martin Luther ect ect] I pray GOD will ease your pain and anger toward the Catholic Church.

 

[nsper7]

Although I may have certain doctrinal disagreements with Jimmy B, I admire his willingness and ability to stand up and defend what he believes is orthodox and catholic (little ‘o’, little ‘c’).

While his blunt and direct style may put some people off, I think it is important that we all take long and hard looks at what we believe and why we believe it. There are serious questions that any Protestant denomination must answer regarding history and theology. In my reading of the history of Christianity, Roman Catholicism was, prior to the Great Schism, the primary (if not singular) expression of the Nicene Creed’s ‘One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church’ (or, as some might call it, the Catholic [Universal] Church). From the Great Schism to the Reformation, Roman Catholicism was the primary/singular expression of the OHCAC/Catholic Church in the West. To deny this is to deny history. I have never heard of any substantial historical defense (supposition, unfalsifiable claims and declarations that anyone that disagrees is going to burn in Hell do not count as ‘substantial’) of the Baptist (and other Protestant denominations’) claims that they ‘secretly’ developed outside the scope of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Robbinson]

Although I may have certain doctrinal disagreements with Jimmy B, I admire his willingness and ability to stand up and defend what he believes is orthodox and catholic (little ‘o’, little ‘c’). .

I’ll agree with you on this. Thanks for pointing it out and thanks Jimmy for the posts (I’ve been enjoying them even if we don’t agree on everything (the gap is closing, however).

Blessings,

Brian

 

[AlexiaMusing]

AlexiaMusing: how saddenedI was when I read your post that you left Holy Mother Church over what you call doctrinal differences, I am so sorry you could not work out your problems. I guess this has been an issue throughout history [Martin Luther ect ect] I pray GOD will ease your pain and anger toward the Catholic Church.

You should not feel saddened. I am quite happy and fulfilled in my present faith tradition, and you must read my posts more carefully or more of them. I am neither angry nor pained at the Roman church or any of its members. It might be better to focus your prayers on the sick, homeless and others mired in poverty, war and disease than to worry about me. I am quite well.

But you are right, A good many of my fellow Episcopalians are ex-Romans. Each finds the place wherein they most closely feel God’s presence. I am glad you seem quite happy where you are. That is as I would hope for all.

 

[aboabo]

AlexiaMusing: how saddenedI was when I read your post that you left Holy Mother Church over what you call doctrinal differences, I am so sorry you could not work out your problems. I guess this has been an issue throughout history [Martin Luther ect ect] I pray GOD will ease your pain and anger toward the Catholic Church.

Thanks for mentioning the holy mother. Is this the mother of Jesus Christ that catholics idolize? That’d be Mary, wouldn’t it?

Mary, the mother of Jesus of Nazareth, was a very special woman, a very righteous woman, but nevertheless, like even her firstborn son, Mary was a normal human. Mary was as truly righteous as any mortal human could be, meaning that she observed God’s Ten Commandments as best she possibly could, all of them, exactly as the Word of God specifies. Mary wasn’t a murderer, a thief, a liar, or someone who disobeyed any other of the Commandments, including the one that plainly states “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them.”

Mary died nearly 2,000 years ago and has remained dead ever since (the reason that it is also useless to pray to Mary, as millions do) while awaiting her resurrection along with everyone else. But what if she could hear, and respond, to the billions of people who have idolized her? How would a woman who absolutely never prayed to, or kneeled before, a religious statue or image in her entire life react to seeing millions of people kneeling before or praying to a religious statue or image of her? Would Mary be horrified? Would Mary call it evil and blasphemous? Yes, she certainly would because that is what God calls it. Mary did not worship in ways that God commanded not to do, in ways that God says are repulsive in God’s sight. Mary would tell those mostly well-meaning, but grossly-deceived and misled people to worship God as she did, no idols - not of God, not of the Christ, not of anyone, or anything.

The Holy Scriptures plainly warn that those who keep worshipping idols, or keep using idols for worship, have God’s wrath coming upon them. It’s coming, it’s going to happen to those who refuse to repent of their use of idols. If you are one of those who have been deceived into using idols, free yourself from them before it’s too late. If you don’t trash your idols, God is going to trash you.

“for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.” (Jeremiah 10:14-15 KJV)

“And the idols He shall utterly abolish. And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of The Lord, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth. In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; to go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of The Lord, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.” (Isaiah 2:18-21 KJV)

“Blessed are they that do His Commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:14-15 KJV)

 

[Silouan]

**If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 3 **

Why aren’t you Catholic? Tell the truth.

I am not Roman Catholic because, I believe Orthodox Christianity is a closer representation of the Original Church. Although I believe the Roman Catholic has an unbroken chain back to Christ, I believe the Roman Catholics innovated to many beliefs and practices, like priest not marrying. And filoque, and the pope. I am not big scholastic theology, I utterly hate it.

At the same time, I am not anti-Catholic, I have some Catholic friends. One of my Catholic friends is a monk, and I visit his monastery often. While I understand to some degree by the Roman Catholics have innovated in these matters. I don’t hold it against them per se. To each his own, and I hope to see my Catholic brothers and sister in paradise with me.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[celticcrusader]

Thanks for mentioning the holy mother. Is this the mother of Jesus Christ that catholics idolize? That’d be Mary, wouldn’t it?

Mary, the mother of Jesus of Nazareth, was a very special woman, a very righteous woman, but nevertheless, like even her firstborn son, Mary was a normal human. Mary was as truly righteous as any mortal human could be, meaning that she observed God’s Ten Commandments as best she possibly could, all of them, exactly as the Word of God specifies. Mary wasn’t a murderer, a thief, a liar, or someone who disobeyed any other of the Commandments, including the one that plainly states “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them.”

Mary died nearly 2,000 years ago and has remained dead ever since (the reason that it is also useless to pray to Mary, as millions do) while awaiting her resurrection along with everyone else. But what if she could hear, and respond, to the billions of people who have idolized her? How would a woman who absolutely never prayed to, or kneeled before, a religious statue or image in her entire life react to seeing millions of people kneeling before or praying to a religious statue or image of her? Would Mary be horrified? Would Mary call it evil and blasphemous? Yes, she certainly would because that is what God calls it. Mary did not worship in ways that God commanded not to do, in ways that God says are repulsive in God’s sight. Mary would tell those mostly well-meaning, but grossly-deceived and misled people to worship God as she did, no idols - not of God, not of the Christ, not of anyone, or anything.

The Holy Scriptures plainly warn that those who keep worshipping idols, or keep using idols for worship, have God’s wrath coming upon them. It’s coming, it’s going to happen to those who refuse to repent of their use of idols. If you are one of those who have been deceived into using idols, free yourself from them before it’s too late. If you don’t trash your idols, God is going to trash you.

“for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.” (Jeremiah 10:14-15 KJV)

“And the idols He shall utterly abolish. And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of The Lord, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth. In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; to go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of The Lord, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.” (Isaiah 2:18-21 KJV)

“Blessed are they that do His Commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:14-15 KJV)

When I reffered to HOLY MOTHER CHURCH it is a term of endearment to the Catholic Church.

We look to& go the Church like you would go to your mother for teaching, wisdom, consolation,love ,secrurity, solice,ect.,ect. #2 Wow, boy do YOU have a misunderstanding or ignorance of Catholic teaching of Mary! where did you ever learn the stuff you wrote ? Not from a Catholic or a Bible Believeing Christian I would hope. If you are looking for truth you have come to the right place. peace of Christ to you.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Thanks for mentioning the holy mother. Is this the mother of Jesus Christ that catholics idolize? That’d be Mary, wouldn’t it?

…

Wow - is this what your bible is teaching you? Mary’s first born? Mary is dead? You my friend live in a house of mirrors and self delusion. You have met your own judge face to face…

James 1:23
For if a man be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he shall be compared to a man beholding his own countenance in a glass.

James

 

[Cinette]

I am not Catholic because of:

1. The Doctrine of the Mass
2. The Invocation of the Saints
3. The Papacy
4. Most importantly; the RC doctrine of justification; and all false teaching that springs from it (indulgences, purgatory, et al).

Sweetheart! You go to Mass and you see the bible come alive!!

Papacy? That was Jesus’ idea and what a splendid one at that. Not only did he start the Papacy but he said that the Holy Spirit would guide the Church…

Saints? They are nothing more than Mentors and good friends we have in heaven.

Take another look at the Gospels - you’ll find most of your answers there.

Believe me and good luck:newidea:

Really - its ALL there!

 

[Cinette]

How could this not be a true church of God?

Sounds like you like the charismatic expression.

I attend a group here in South Africa called Family of God - it was started by a wonderful woman who has 9 children and 27 grandchildren 36 years ago. She is amazing.

She is Catholic and her brother is a Catholic priest. Family of God conducts Life in the Spirit Seminars and Healing Seminars. amazing stuff. Sure you feel the fire of the Spirit and it makes the Mass more alive for me.

What you are talking about is a manifestation and an outward manifestation at that. You can still be Catholic and worship with charismatics. We sometimes have chrismatic Masses. Did you know that the biggest group of Charismatics in the world are Catholic Charismatics?

I bet you didn’t.

Friend I understand your feelings but you should think again because the Eucharist is the “source and summit” of the Church and you should not turn your back on the Eucharist. I understand the amazing praise and worship and the fellowship but the Mass is the Bible coming alive.

Blessings

 

[Cinette]

Here is the link to - ”If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being Catholic (1)”

Here is the link to - ”If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being Catholic-2”

Hi Jimmy B!

I have been reading some of the threads and some of the Protestants are very nice and then you get the “thorns in the side” types who either hate the RCC or just love to have some fun and dig.

Tell me - Has there ever been a real biggot who HATED the Church change his/her mind about the Catholic Church on this forum?

\

:ehh:

 

[celticcrusader]

What a great question to start a new thread with!!!

 

[aboabo]

Wow - is this what your bible is teaching you? Mary’s first born? Mary is dead? You my friend live in a house of mirrors and self delusion.

That’s what the bible says. Mary is dead meat along with EVERY other person that ever lived/died apart from Jesus Christ; the only man ever to ascend to Heaven [John 3:13]. The dead in Christ (including Mary) are simply awaiting the first resurrection [Rev 20:6]. The rest of the dead (not in Christ) will not rise until 1000 years later.

Show me the biblical verses which support the ridiculous idea that Mary is alive somewhere today. Also, the verses which suggest Jesus had older brothers and/or sisters.

 

[Cinette]

What a great question to start a new thread with!!!

I have thought of a better question.

How about:

Have there been any Sauls who became Pauls through the CAF?

:bigyikes: