If you do Not believe that Blessed Mary is the Mother of God, than who do you believe Jesus Christ is?

[adrift]

Regarding all have sinned I have this from the Faith Data Base

3956 pas {pas} including all the forms of declension; TDNT - 5:886,795; adj 1) individually 1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything 2) collectively 2a) some of all types ++++ … “the whole world has gone after him” Did all the world go after Christ? “then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan.” Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan? “Ye are of God, little children”, and the whole world lieth in the wicked one". Does the whole world there mean everybody? The words “world” and “all” are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is very rarely the “all” means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts – some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile … C.H. Spurgeon from a sermon on Particular Redemption

I generally shy away from threads with >20 or so posts but thought I’d respond to the reference made to Romans 3:10 and 3:23. Paul cannot possibly be speaking about “Everyone else who has ever lived” in this passage. The entire passage, verses 9 through 18 are given below:

9

 

[ClamDigger]

Why do you all keep putting the words “God the son” ? never once in the entire bible are those three words used like that, its only ever " Son of God." If the trinity was supposed to be something so beneficial in how we look at god, wouldn’t you think we would have an entire book in the bible just based on that, i mean something so important god would of made it clear. I mean there is nothing, just a hand full of bias versus that was put in when it was being translated and if one simply looks back to the original Greek its different.

AND THE WORD WAS GOD. How do you interpret these words as denying the divinity of Jesus?

“Who is Jesus Christ?”
The only begotten son of God… take an example of when Jesus got baptized and the heavens opened and God declared that this is HIS son for whom he is well pleased! Now i don’t know about you but that sounds like father proud of his son. Not just another version of himself.

They are two seperate people. God the Father IS the Father from whom Christ, God the Son, is begotten of. Two seperate persons of one divine essence. “I and my Father are ONE.”

Here are a ton of scriptures that shows you Jesus inst god.

* Jesus said, "The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him." (John 13:16)

This verse is about John the Baptist. Jesus said this because some people did (and some people still do, think Mandaeanism) deny that Jesus was Messiah because they think John the Baptist was the Messiah. John sent Jesus to them.

Jesus said on numerous occasions that, “the Father… hath sent me.” (John 5:37,6:37) The Holy Ghost was also sent by the Father (John 14:26) and Jesus (John 16:7), thus making Jesus inferior to the Father and the Holy Ghost inferior to both the Father and Jesus.

See above statement for why this doesn’t apply.
Also, what is the Holy Ghost to you if he is not God???

* "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another comforter, that he may abide with you forever; even the spirit of truth." (John 14:16)
* Jesus prays to God. (John 17:1-3)

Yes, because Jesus is the perfect example for mankind. What kind of example would he be for us if he did not pray?

* Jesus has faith in God. (Hebrews 2:17,18, Hebrews 3:2)

Of course he has faith in his Father! That does not diminish the fact that he is God.

* Jesus is a servant of God. (Acts 3:13)

Yes. Jesus made himself a servant of his Father in doing whatever God the Father asked of him, God the Son.

* Jesus does not know things God knows. (Mark 13:32)

This is because Jesus allowed himself to be limited in taking on human nature.

Revelation 1:1

Because after Jesus’ ascension, he no longer limited himself.

* Jesus worships God. (John 4:22)

Yes. God the Father, with whom he is one and with whom he has been with since the beginning.

* Jesus has one who is God to him. (Revelation 3:12)

Yes. Jesus’ God is God the Father, with whom he is ONE.

* Jesus is in subjection to God. (1 Corinthians 15:28)

Yes. Jesus subjected himself perfectly to the will of his Father in taking on human nature.

* Jesus' head is God. (1 Corinthians 11:1)

Yes, because Jesus does whatever God the Father tells him to do.

* Jesus has reverent submission, fear, of God. (Hebrews 5:7)

This does not say he fears God. It says that he submits to him. Jesus submitted to God the Father’s will in becoming human and taking on the sins of the world.

 

[ClamDigger]

• Jesus is given lordship by God. (Acts 2:36)

Yes. Because Jesus has been chosen to be Lord of Israel and has been annointed as such by God the Father from ETERNITY. It does not say, “Jesus has been made Lord and Christ by God some time after he was born.”

* Jesus is exalted by God.(Acts 5:31)

“Exalt” does not only mean “elevate”. It can also mean praise and honor. God the Father has honored his Son.

* Jesus is made high priest by God. (Hebrews 5:10)

Once again, Jesus “who [is] God” is under the authority of God the Father.

* Jesus is given authority by God. (Philippians 2:9)
* Jesus is given kingship by God. (Luke 1:32,33)
* Jesus is given judgment by God. (Acts 10:42)

Jesus was “given” all these things by God the Father because he would not have just taken them for himself had it not been the will of the Father. He is perfectly submissive to his Father from eternity.

* "God raised [Jesus] from the dead". (Acts 2:24, Romans 10:9, 1 Corinthians 15:15)

Yes! Because God the Son would not have raised himself from the dead were it not the will of God the Father!

* Jesus is at the right hand of God. (Mark 16:19, Luke 22:69, Acts 2:33, Romans 8:34)

GOD THE FATHER. He is at the right hand of God the Father who is called by the generic term of “God”.

* Jesus is the one human mediator between the one God and man. (1 Timothy 2:5)

Yes. Between God the Father and humanity because GOD the Son, who is JESUS, became HUMAN for us by the WILL of God the Father in order to reconcile us to God the Father.
And, of course there is only one God. However, he is three persons of one essence.

* God put everything, except Himself, under Jesus. (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)

Because they are EQUAL. Where does it say that Jesus is BENEATH God the Father?

* Jesus did not think being "equal with God" was graspable. (Philippians 2:6)

This verse even says, “WHO, BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD…” It merely means that he knew we would not be able to fully understand his unique position in relation to God the Father.

* "Around the ninth hour, Jesus shouted in a loud voice, saying "Eli Eli lama sabachthani?" which is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"" (Matthew 27:46)

Once again, God the Father is worshiped by God the Son.

If you have read threw them all and looked them up then you can only come to the conclusion that Jesus isn’t god, never claimed to be and in fact claimed to be inferior then god.

He did not claim to be inferior to God the Father. I haven’t seen this once. Nice try though.

The truth.

John 1.1

 

[GaryTaylor]

Why do you all keep putting the words “God the son” ? never once in the entire bible are those three words used like that, its only ever " Son of God."

“Who is Jesus Christ?”

Not sure how you come to these conclusions. Its called abberative thinking.

Maybe you just didn’t get to these verse’s, so you misinterpreted the others?

JOHN 3:18-19

Whoever believes in Him[Christ] is not condemed, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of “Gods one and only Son”
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

JOHN 14:6-11

I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father but through Me. If you knew me, you would know my father as well.

Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say “Show us the Father”. I am the Father, and that the Father is in Me. The words I say to you are not My own. Rather it is My Father living in Me, who is doing His work.
Believe Me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father in in Me.

So Gods Son does appear in the Gospel:shrug:

God Bless, Gary

 

[ClamDigger]

This verse is about John the Baptist. Jesus said this because some people did (and some people still do, think Mandaeanism) deny that Jesus was Messiah because they think John the Baptist was the Messiah. John sent Jesus to them.

I just realized that I mis-wrote this. I mean to say Jesus sent John, not the other way around. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[adrift]

Having a sin nature makes on a sinner, does it not?

Ps 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.
Ge 8:21 And the LORD smelled a soothing aroma. Then the LORD said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake, although the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
Job 15:14 "What is man, that he could be pure? And he who is born of a woman, that he could be righteous?
Job 15:15 If God puts no trust in His saints, And the heavens are not pure in His sight,
Joh 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Ro 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned–

Could it be you misunderstand the grace of God?

Than explain it.

 

[PRmerger]

If you have read threw them all and looked them up then you can only come to the conclusion that Jesus isn’t god, never claimed to be and in fact claimed to be inferior then god.

The truth.

Wow.

This should serve as a warning to all non-Catholic Christians who proclaim that all one needs to do is read his bible and, with the Holy Spirit, come to an understanding of God’s Word.

 

[StTommyMore]

Wow.

This should serve as a warning to all non-Catholic Christians who proclaim that all one needs to do is read his bible and, with the Holy Spirit, come to an understanding of God’s Word.

I’m not sure what Bible he read, but redefining the Law of Moses is to claim superiority to Moses, and for the Jews, only God is above Moses.

 

[benidict]

Why do you all keep putting the words “God the son” ? never once in the entire bible are those three words used like that, its only ever " Son of God." If the trinity was supposed to be something so beneficial in how we look at god, wouldn’t you think we would have an entire book in the bible just based on that, i mean something so important god would of made it clear. I mean there is nothing, just a hand full of bias versus that was put in when it was being translated and if one simply looks back to the original Greek its different.

“Who is Jesus Christ?”
The only begotten son of God… take an example of when Jesus got baptized and the heavens opened and God declared that this is HIS son for whom he is well pleased! Now i don’t know about you but that sounds like father proud of his son. Not just another version of himself.

Here are a ton of scriptures that shows you Jesus inst god.

* Jesus said, "The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him." (John 13:16) Jesus said on numerous occasions that, "the Father… hath sent me." (John 5:37,6:37) The Holy Ghost was also sent by the Father (John 14:26) and Jesus (John 16:7), thus making Jesus inferior to the Father and the Holy Ghost inferior to both the Father and Jesus.
* "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another comforter, that he may abide with you forever; even the spirit of truth." (John 14:16)
* Jesus prays to God. (John 17:1-3)
* Jesus has faith in God. (Hebrews 2:17,18, Hebrews 3:2)
* Jesus is a servant of God. (Acts 3:13)
* Jesus does not know things God knows. (Mark 13:32, Revelation 1:1)
* Jesus worships God. (John 4:22)
* Jesus has one who is God to him. (Revelation 3:12)
* Jesus is in subjection to God. (1 Corinthians 15:28)
* Jesus' head is God. (1 Corinthians 11:1)
* Jesus has reverent submission, fear, of God. (Hebrews 5:7)
* Jesus is given lordship by God. (Acts 2:36)
* Jesus is exalted by God.(Acts 5:31)
* Jesus is made high priest by God. (Hebrews 5:10)
* Jesus is given authority by God. (Philippians 2:9)
* Jesus is given kingship by God. (Luke 1:32,33)
* Jesus is given judgment by God. (Acts 10:42)
* "God raised [Jesus] from the dead". (Acts 2:24, Romans 10:9, 1 Corinthians 15:15)
* Jesus is at the right hand of God. (Mark 16:19, Luke 22:69, Acts 2:33, Romans 8:34)
* Jesus is the one human mediator between the one God and man. (1 Timothy 2:5)
* God put everything, except Himself, under Jesus. (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)
* Jesus did not think being "equal with God" was graspable. (Philippians 2:6)
* "Around the ninth hour, Jesus shouted in a loud voice, saying "Eli Eli lama sabachthani?" which is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"" (Matthew 27:46)

If you have read threw them all and looked them up then you can only come to the conclusion that Jesus isn’t god, never claimed to be and in fact claimed to be inferior then god.

The truth.

You are sadly mis informed as to the scriptures my friend. Who was it who stated; “Before Abraham was, I AM?”

 

[skmorrison6]

Clamdigger

I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong but thus far I have gleaned your understanding of Mary as follows:

Although Mary was born of natural parents you believe she never sinned (like her son). Although Mary is totally human and as you rightly state takes no part in the baptism which involves Father, Son & the Holy Spirit, and Mary being the Mother of Jesus I assume you also believe that Mary pre-existed? That is, she has always been ie. Eternal? That she sat with God in the Heavens as His Mother? (You cannot appreciate how hard it is to write these words, but I am very keen to understand your faith and reasoning’s.

Mary was married to Joseph and she had other children to him or do you believe Jesus had no brothers? That Jesus was Mary’s only child?

I will summarize my questions:

Mary was born of natural persons Yes / No
Mary never sinned Yes / No
Mary pre-existed Yes / No
Mary had no other children Yes / No

Thank you in advance.

In the Masters Service
SM

 

[ClamDigger]

Clamdigger

I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong but thus far I have gleaned your understanding of Mary as follows:

Although Mary was born of natural parents you believe she never sinned (like her son)

Yes. Mary is sinless.

Although Mary is totally human and as you rightly state takes no part in the baptism which involves Father, Son & the Holy Spirit,

What? I have no idea if Mary was baptized or not. I assume she was?

and Mary being the Mother of Jesus I assume you also believe that Mary pre-existed?

No. Mary has not always existed. The idea of Mary as Mother of his Son was always in God the Father’s mind, but she was created at the moment of her conception, like the rest of us. I say that the idea of Mary has always existed because it is obvious from the messianic prophecies in the OT that the idea of her has always existed.

That is, she has always been ie. Eternal? That she sat with God in the Heavens as His Mother? (You cannot appreciate how hard it is to write these words, but I am very keen to understand your faith and reasoning’s.

No. Mary is not eternal. I have never said that.

Mary was married to Joseph and she had other children to him or do you believe Jesus had no brothers? That Jesus was Mary’s only child?

Mary is perpetually virginal. There is no real evidence that Mary had other children besides Jesus. The “brothers” mentioned in the Gospels were cousins of Jesus, as cousins were termed “brothers” by the ancient Hebrews. If Mary would have had other children, there would be no reason for Jesus to have entrusted her to the care of John the Apostle at his crucifixion.

I will summarize my questions:

Mary was born of natural persons Yes / No

Yes.

Mary never sinned Yes / No

Yes.

Mary pre-existed Yes / No

Emphatically, NO!

Mary had no other children Yes / No

No. There is no proof from scripture that she did and the most ancient tradition passed onto us by the Apostles is that she did not.

Thank you in advance.

Any time!

 

[skmorrison6]

Christadelphian

Jesus has been and will always be subject to the Father. In many ways like he was to his earthly parents.

ESV Luk 2:51 And he (Jesus) went down with them (Joseph and Mary) and came to Nazareth and was submissive to them. And his mother treasured up all these things in her heart.

KJVLuk 2:51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

Actually its interesting that if Jesus is God we see here Jesus being subject or submissive to earthly parents, including Joseph, which I doubt is deified like Mary. So if Jesus = God and Jesus is being submissive or in subject in other words is in obedience to Joseph???

The Below list of course shows clearly that Jesus being God’s only begotten son was likewise subject or submissive to his Father, understandably so. The notion of God being subject or submissive to God doesn’t fit the divine record.

“And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another comforter, that he may abide with you forever; even the spirit of truth.” (John 14:16)

• Jesus prays to God. (John 17:1-3) Subjection
• Jesus has faith in God. (Hebrews 2:17,18, Hebrews 3:2) Subjection
• Jesus is a servant of God. (Acts 3:13) Subjection
• Jesus does not know things God knows. (Mark 13:32, Revelation 1:1) Subjection
• Jesus worships God. (John 4:22) Subjection
• Jesus has one who is God to him. (Revelation 3:12) Subjection
• Jesus is in subjection to God. (1 Corinthians 15:28) Subjection
• Jesus’ head is God. (1 Corinthians 11:1) Subjection
• Jesus has reverent submission, fear, of God. (Hebrews 5:7) Subjection
• Jesus is given lordship by God. (Acts 2:36) Subjection
• Jesus is exalted by God.(Acts 5:31) Subjection
• Jesus is made high priest by God. (Hebrews 5:10) Subjection
• Jesus is given authority by God. (Philippians 2:9) Subjection
• Jesus is given kingship by God. (Luke 1:32,33) Subjection
• Jesus is given judgment by God. (Acts 10:42) Subjection
• “God raised [Jesus] from the dead”. (Acts 2:24, Romans 10:9, 1 Corinthians 15:15) Subjection
• Jesus is at the right hand of God. (Mark 16:19, Luke 22:69, Acts 2:33, Romans 8:34) Subjection
• Jesus is the one human mediator between the one God and man. (1 Timothy 2:5) Subjection
• God put everything, except Himself, under Jesus. (1 Corinthians 15:24-28) Subjection
• Jesus did not think being “equal with God” was graspable. (Philippians 2:6) Subjection
• “Around the ninth hour, Jesus shouted in a loud voice, saying “Eli Eli lama sabachthani?” which is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”” (Matthew 27:46)
  Subjection

However, if Jesus is a mere man whose Heavenly Father is God (His creator) and whose mother is Mary & Joseph (Natural Normal Parents) then it is clear that he would be subject to them and rightly so, until its was time for Jesus to be in His Father’s house and much later begin his ministry.

Rom 13:1 Let every soul (body) be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. (not Jesus)

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him (Jesus), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him (God) that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

And we the body of Christ are subject unto him as Jesus is subject unto God.

Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ…

And as I have stated earlier Jesus is on the right hand of God in the heavens and God has put under him all power and dominion (Except God Himself)

1Pe 3:22 Who (Jesus) is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

The list teaches that Jesus while in the flesh was subject to Mary and Joseph and obeyed their commands likewise he was also subject to God his Heavenly Father and obeyed Him in all things. So in terms of

• Jesus’ head is God. (1 Corinthians 11:1)
• God is subject to no other being He is supreme authority in Heaven and Earth
• Jesus is subject to God and noone else
• Angels are subject to Jesus Christ and God
• Man is subject to Jesus and God (Angels in that they bear the name of the Father)
• Woman is subject to Man, Jesus and God.

BUT if Jesus is God all the above quotes are not valid because how can God be Subject to Himself?

Just in cae someone trys to wrest scriptures I have placed the Greek meaning for the word subject below

G5293
ὑποτάσσω
hupotassō
hoop-ot-as’-so
From G5259 and G5021; to subordinate; reflexively to obey: - be under obedience (obedient), **put under, subdue unto, (**be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.

SM

 

[ClamDigger]

I feel as though the Catholics in this thread have already sufficiently established our position that Jesus is God the Son, different from and subject to God the Father but still God nonetheless. So I will merely answer this assumption:

Actually its interesting that if Jesus is God we see here Jesus being subject or submissive to earthly parents, including Joseph, which I doubt is deified like Mary.

You really should actually READ about the Catholic Church before just jumping to assumptions. Actually, Joseph is honored in a similar fashion to Mary. We pray for his intercession and believe him to be very holy. We honor him as the guardian of Mary and Jesus.
Also, we do not “deify” Mary or any other human being. We merely give honor where honor is due. You and some other Protestants could take a lesson from Romans 13.7. All Christians should give honor to Mary for her submission to the will of God the Father in his choice for her to bear his Son. The only people I see following the command in Romans 13.7 (in regard to Mary) and ESPECIALLY in Luke 1.48 are Catholics and Orthodox. We are (for the most part) the ONLY ones who regularly proclaim Mary blessed and give her the HONOR that is DUE to her for becoming the Mother of the Only-Begotten Son of God. Protestants, on the other hand, are constantly speculating that she is a “sinner” and looking for ways that Jesus could have “disrespected” her. And then, as if that weren’t enough, when we actually follow the scriptures and proclaim her blessed and give her the honor and respect that she deserves, they actually have the gall to say that we are “deifying” her. Absolutely outrageous!

 

[PRmerger]

Although Mary is totally human and as you rightly state takes no part in the baptism which involves Father, Son & the Holy Spirit,

What does this mean? Do you mean that we don’t believe she is part of the Trinity? If so, you are correct.

Mary is not divine. We do not worship her.

and Mary being the Mother of Jesus I assume you also believe that Mary pre-existed?

No. That is not Catholic teaching. Mary was *created. * And from the very first moment of her existence she was created without sin.

That is, she has always been ie. Eternal? That she sat with God in the Heavens as His Mother? (You cannot appreciate how hard it is to write these words, but I am very keen to understand your faith and reasoning’s.

It’s no wonder you come to the CAFs objecting to the Catholic Church. You object to a pornographized version of Catholicism, however. One that doesn’t exist, except in the imaginations of thousands of folks.

Mary was married to Joseph and she had other children to him or do you believe Jesus had no brothers? That Jesus was Mary’s only child?

There are NO BIBLE VERSES that state that Mary had other children. Not a single verse.

Jesus’ “brothers” could have been his cousins or sons of Joseph.

 

[ClamDigger]

G5293
ὑποτάσσω
hupotassō
hoop-ot-as’-so
From G5259 and G5021; to subordinate; reflexively to obey: - be under obedience (obedient), **put under, subdue unto, (**be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.

SM

TO SUBMIT ONESELF TO! Jesus submits himself perfectly to the will of his Father, not because he is inferior to him, but because he CHOOSES to do so!

 

[skmorrison6]

Pmerger and Clamdigger

You really should actually READ about the Catholic Church before just jumping to assumptions. Actually, Joseph is honored in a similar fashion to Mary. We pray for his intercession and believe him to be very holy. We honor him as the guardian of Mary and Jesus.

But not the same?

Also, we do not “deify” Mary or any other human being.

So how can she be the mother of God and you not deify her?

We merely give honor where honor is due. You and some other Protestants could take a lesson from Romans 13.7. All Christians should give honor to Mary for her submission to the will of God the Father in his choice for her to bear his Son. The only people I see following the command in Romans 13.7 (in regard to Mary) and ESPECIALLY in Luke 1.48 are Catholics and Orthodox.

Agreed totally - like I said in previous posts I have spent the past three years studying Mary, Elizabeth, Hannah, Ruth & Sarah for Bible Classes and can confidently say with give her great honour and she is most blessed But she is not God’s mother.

We are (for the most part) the ONLY ones who regularly proclaim Mary blessed and give her the HONOR that is DUE to her for becoming the Mother of the Only-Begotten Son of God.

Now this statement I 100% agree with because she is the mother of the only begotten SON, not only begotten God…God cannot be begotten.

Protestants, on the other hand, are constantly speculating that she is a “sinner” and looking for ways that Jesus could have “disrespected” her.

**Jesus NEVER disrespected her if he rebuked her at all it ways always in love and in righteousness - just like he regularly rebuked Peter, James, Andrew and John and all the disciples. **

And then, as if that weren’t enough, when we actually follow the scriptures and proclaim her blessed and give her the honor and respect that she deserves, they actually have the gall to say that we are “deifying” her. Absolutely outrageous!

You will need to explain to me how you can call her the mother of God and not deify her? This certainly sounds like a paradox…or is it a mystery?

 

[GaryTaylor]

You really should actually READ about the Catholic Church before just jumping to assumptions. Actually, Joseph is honored in a similar fashion to Mary. We pray for his intercession and believe him to be very holy. We honor him as the guardian of Mary and Jesus. But not the same?

Joesph is a Saint and as the Father of Jesus I’m sure His intercession power is very real. matter of fact Saint Teresa of Avila prayed to and for the intercession of St Joseph her entire life and highly recommends this Saint.
Nonetheless, the reality of the Blessed Virgin is a Biblical fact. She is the Mother of the Lord as Luke clearly states.

Joseph isn’t venerated in the Bible as Mary is. While I do understand {sort of} what you are saying, your a bit off in this aspect of Catholic Teaching. But not being Catholic, we understand this, and we pray for you.

Agreed totally - like I said in previous posts I have spent the past three years studying Mary, Elizabeth, Hannah, Ruth & Sarah for Bible Classes and can confidently say with give her great honour and she is most blessed But she is not God’s mother.

Congratulations:thumbsup: We are waiting to hear more of what you learned!

You will need to explain to me how you can call her the mother of God and not deify her? This certainly sounds like a paradox…or is it a mystery?:confused

Seems to me from reading Luke its obviously clear about Marys reality. Actually you’ll have to explain to us how She is not the Mother of the Lord? With your education as you clearly informed us of, you must have some in-depth thinking on this topic, and the Annunciation, Nativity, Visitation, Prophecy of Simeon, Coronation etc? Please do share it with us, do not hesistate by keeping us in suspense.

BTW what is your denomination, and what branch of Christianity if any do you follow?

God Bless You! Gary

 

[adrift]

You will need to explain to me how you can call her the mother of God and not deify her? This certainly sounds like a paradox…or is it a mystery?

It is because you don’t know who Jesus is. You do not believe He is God who became a man. Thus Jesus has two natures God and Man. Because you come with the mindset that Jesus is not God that you do not understand how Mary is mother of God.

Please clarify something. Who do you believe is the father of Jesus?

 

[PRmerger]

Agreed totally - like I said in previous posts I have spent the past three years studying Mary, Elizabeth, Hannah, Ruth & Sarah for Bible Classes and can confidently say with give her great honour and she is most blessed But she is not God’s mother.

I think your church will have a hard time evangelizing to non-Christians if you cannot claim that Mary is the mother of God. These non-Christians will rightly argue: “If you cannot say that Mary is the mother of God, you don’t believe that Jesus is God, then!”

You will have no way to argue that you believe Jesus is God.

 

[PRmerger]

You really should actually READ about the Catholic Church before just jumping to assumptions.

Fair enough. Can you please provide a source you’ve read from the Catholic Church that states Mary is a deity?

So how can she be the mother of God and you not deify her?

Because she is the mother of Jesus who* is* God. That does not give her a divine nature.

[SIGN1]Each and every time you claim that Mary is not the mother of God you proclaim loudly that you deny Christ’s divinity. [/SIGN1]

Now this statement I 100% agree with because she is the mother of the only begotten SON, not only begotten God…God cannot be begotten.

Right. God cannot be begotten. That’s very Catholic of you to say!

But Christ is begotten and Mary is His Blessed Mother, and if you deny Mary is the mother of God, you deny Christ’s divinity.

You will need to explain to me how you can call her the mother of God and not deify her? This certainly sounds like a paradox…or is it a mystery?

And you will have to explain to us how you can deny Mary is the Mother of God and not reject Christ is God. This certainly sounds like a paradox–or is it a mystery?