If you're over 25 and never had a significant other

[daisy_jones]

They probably made the choice in accordance with natural law, driven by that universal desire to marry and prolong the species that applies to mankind, they didn’t give their all for some reasons or maybe one gave but the other did not. Hard to say.

Nah, sin is still sin and there is also failure. Not everybody who fails at a task was not called to do it. I really doubt that lack of a calling is a serious factor in marriage breakdown. Lack of preparation, sure. Lack of elementary people skills, sure. Lack of fitness for marriage due to character flaws, sure. But not really lack of calling, barring the couple of people possibly had a calling to religious celibacy and made their marriage resemble a monastery.

Well, I will still respectfully disagree with you, but I wish you best of luck in wherever you are headed!

 

[fgh_123]

You never know the crosses one has to bear in life. Maybe a life of celibacy is someone’s cross - that doesn’t make it unnatural! Plus, there are some people in the world who do not have the sexual desire that most are born with!

Oh I do not disagree with you for a second, and if I’m being blunt, those without sexual desire are lucky in that they are not concerned as much with what they are missing.

However for the majority of us that do feel such desires, not just from a physical viewpoint, but from the emotional connection that comes with such closeness, it makes it a damn hard cross to bear, and in my opinion a very unnatural one.

If my cross was to remain celibate til I was 30, whereupon I would find the lady of my dreams who I’d marry and spend my life with, I would accept the next 8 continued years of chastity and work through it.

When I’m left in a position of: “hey, you live in a secular society, with your church population being 3 times your age on average and the few younger people that you do know being promiscuous, don’t worry about it, I’m sure you’ll find someone completely rational that’ll love, even though experience thus far hasn’t shown you ANYONE like that”, it’s slightly different.

(longest sentence award goes to… )

 

[chevalier]

Well, I will still respectfully disagree with you, but I wish you best of luck in wherever you are headed!

Thank you and likewise. :tiphat:

I used to hold a view similar to yours. Who know what’s right in the end.

 

[daisy_jones]

I just wanted to comment on the conversation about people getting married for security/society/pressures/big weddings/etc…

Originally I never wanted to get married OR to have kids. When I was growing up people would tell me that I would make a fantastic wife but I always brushed it off because it wasn’t what I wanted. I wasn’t like those other little girls who dreamed of prince charming and being swept off my feet… I live a very independent life. I’m quite happy being alone. Own my car, own my house, pay my own bills… I’m in a REALLY good place. I definitely do not have security issues because I know I can take care of me. I don’t need someone to make me feel secure.

About a year ago I started asking the Lord what my vocation was and instead of saying: this is what you should do… I started to feel a strong desire to have a family, to have children…

After a period of discernment I started to think: I AM supposed to get married. That is what I’m being called to. When I made that decision there was a peace that came with it. Now my discernment process was really quick (less then a year) but when I sat down and asked God straight up He gave me my answer. Perhaps because I was ready.

Because of my experiences I have a hard time imagining that the majority of women out there are seeking marriage just for the big wedding, or the security. I suspect most seek marriage because they want a family of their own. They want children. They want a life mate. That can’t be simplified to ‘she just wants someone to take care of her’.

Just my thoughts. I apologize if I’m misunderstanding the general meaning of your conversation, by the way.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut! I guess my point is that marriage HAS to be discerned - not something you do just because you don’t enter the religious life.

I agree with you about a calling - it is more of a feeling than an order going off in your head. I ask God everyday to lead me in the right direction, and if I ever feel that marriage is that direction, down that road I will go! I just don’t think so right now, nor have I ever really felt that way.

I don’t think most women even realize they get married for wrong reasons until they are miserable a few months into the marriage, and I think this is because they have rushed into marriage for the wrong reasons. I agree - most want a family and want to be loved, but I think they are so scared of ending up alone that they end up marrying the first guy that will put a ring on their finger. I have seen this time and time again, and it makes me so sad.

 

[chevalier]

I don’t think most women even realize they get married for wrong reasons until they are miserable a few months into the marriage, and I think this is because they have rushed into marriage for the wrong reasons. I agree - most want a family and want to be loved, but I think they are so scared of ending up alone that they end up marrying the first guy that will put a ring on their finger. I have seen this time and time again, and it makes me so sad.

I apologise in advance if I sound less than courteous, in addition to intruding with my $0.02, but from the perspective of my experience, also with some dear family member or friends of mine, women will fall for a man or stick with him for the wrong reasons… or perhaps for the right reasons but with a bad assessment of the situation. There is that trap that makes men appear more attractive to women if those men don’t treat women as well as they should. Anything from indifference to actual bullying or some other anti-social behaviour. Aggression may also be mistaken for strength by someone inexperienced. Similarly, young men also fall for all the wrong women (or see good things in them but fail to bring them out).

This is pretty much what I was getting around to. There is a pretty all-encompassing call to be fruitful in some way, but not necessarily by having children. Not that I don’t struggle with some temptations like that myself (in the past it actually WAS Starcraft ) and I’m still a long way from discerning what I should do with my own life.

I still play Starcraft (2). Would like to become good at it some day. Would be fun to win a local tournament or two. Not as good as engaging female company but has its good sides and can be fun.

 

[nickybr38]

Don’t shatter my dreams.

I don’t for a second disagree with you in saying that self control is a bad thing, I find it very impressive that you’ve held on this long! I’m just saying, as a 22 year old guy who has held on through school, college and university that it goes across every instinct and that it’s hard to hold back from something when there is no end in sight.

I suppose it’s the ‘unnatural’ comment that I was reacting to. I don’t think it’s unnatural to ask people to suppress their desires. I think it’s actually good for us to learn not to act on our desires. It’s also good to learn that we don’t always get the things we desire, even if those things seem ‘very good’ or very pleasurable from the eyes of the world.

It’s VERY hard to hold back. Especially when you’re in a relationship and physically as well as emotionally bonding with someone but I would much rather hold back then give in and later find out that relationship doesn’t work out.

I guess I just don’t think sex is the greatest joy life has to offer. I don’t think St. Paul had somehow less of a life or that our Priests and Sisters are somehow missing out on some great aspect of life because they’ve chosen to forgo sex.

 

[daisy_jones]

I apologise in advance if I sound less than courteous, in addition to intruding with my $0.02, but from the perspective of my experience, also with some dear family member or friends of mine, women will fall for a man or stick with him for the wrong reasons… or perhaps for the right reasons but with a bad assessment of the situation. There is that trap that makes men appear more attractive to women if those men don’t treat women as well as they should. Anything from indifference to actual bullying or some other anti-social behaviour. Aggression may also be mistaken for strength by someone inexperienced. Similarly, young men also fall for all the wrong women (or see good things in them but fail to bring them out).
QUOTE]

You don’t sound less than courteous - you sound right! Women fall for the wrong men ALL of the time, and then they end up marrying them Why do they stay with them? Who knows - maybe they think they can do no better, maybe they think it is normal to be treated less than nicely. But whatever the reason, I can tell you from a woman’s point of view, that the older a woman gets, the more she gets the “what’s wrong with her” looks and side conversations if she is not married. Trust me - the pressure is there and for some women (and some men I am sure), they don’t want to be looked at as ‘loser’ for not being married.

And the “what’s wrong with her” looks, don’t always come from strangers or acquaintances - often times they come from family and friends, and chatty church women!

 

[chevalier]

You don’t sound less than courteous - you sound right! Women fall for the wrong men ALL of the time, and then they end up marrying them Why do they stay with them? Who knows - maybe they think they can do no better, maybe they think it is normal to be treated less than nicely. But whatever the reason, I can tell you from a woman’s point of view, that the older a woman gets, the more she gets the “what’s wrong with her” looks and side conversations if she is not married. Trust me - the pressure is there and for some women (and some men I am sure), they don’t want to be looked at as ‘loser’ for not being married.

Thank you. I used to think they did wrong in doing that. But later it occurred to me that marriage was, after all, a means of salvation, and sanctification while en route, and who says that sanctification must come from having a perfect (or at least gentle, meek, polite, understanding) spouse? Maybe that’s the calling all those people have: put up, in humility and perseverance, with all sorts of bad people for the sake of God and salvation. Maybe that’s their means of sanctification. In which case the calling would have served its purpose (likewise if, after dozens of years of hardship or at least misery or at least imperfection, the marriage helped the other spouse’s salvation, such as in the example of St. Monica and her husband the Roman judge… she became a saint, he became Christian before he died, the son also came back to light after many years of prayers that didn’t bring immediate reward).

And the “what’s wrong with her” looks, don’t always come from strangers or acquaintances - often times they come from family and friends, and chatty church women!

Chatty church women will always have something to chat about. Perhaps try to pray for them and take their nuisance gracefully. After all, they are visibly imperfect and in need of aid, for example, such aid as prayer. On the other hand, by seeing someone take their comments gracefully they might experience a change of heart.

As for family, well, in my case I know they care. They are sometimes sarcastic but then so am I. I don’t think the account is uneven. I suspect my jokes may be as hard to take for them as theirs for me, it’s just that it’s easier to notice when someone says something inconsiderate to us than the other way round.

In fact, I suppose sometimes those people have a point. They wonder what’s wrong and there’s surely something wrong, at least in some cases: as in some kind of circumstance (a difficulty, for example, or a psychic issue, which I suppose is ultimately the case with me) that prevents people from finding a marriage partner while they’d seem eligible. This is probably something like asking about the health of someone who looks pale or has lost weight. They might even be motivated by a desire to help, and some of them would if they could.

 

[exoflare]

a psychic issue

What does that mean?

 

[chevalier]

What does that mean?

For example a childhood trauma resulting in some kind of permanent anxiety about something. People who have been hurt or abandoned may fear commitment, those who have been betrayed may have trust issues, children of divorced parents may fear marriage, those rejected by others at some stage may become loners etc. I suspect some singles may be withdrawn and perhaps suffering from some kind of lack of initiative. On the other hand, those for whom relationships break apart frequently may be suffering from a fear of commitment or drawn to people who suffer from it, so either party freaks out at some stage. Some may be attracted to the wrong type of people for all sorts of reasons.

 

[daisy_jones]

As for family, well, in my case I know they care. They are sometimes sarcastic but then so am I. I don’t think the account is uneven. I suspect my jokes may be as hard to take for them as theirs for me, it’s just that it’s easier to notice when someone says something inconsiderate to us than the other way round.

In fact, I suppose sometimes those people have a point. They wonder what’s wrong and there’s surely something wrong, at least in some cases: as in some kind of circumstance (a difficulty, for example, or a psychic issue, which I suppose is ultimately the case with me) that prevents people from finding a marriage partner while they’d seem eligible. This is probably something like asking about the health of someone who looks pale or has lost weight. They might even be motivated by a desire to help, and some of them would if they could.

You are lucky to know your family is sarcastic; however, this is not the case for a lot of people.

I agree that a lot of people put up walls after they have experienced some particular hardship so as to not have to go through it again. But I don’t think being unmarried should be why people want to offer help (unless solicited). There are other signs that go along with the problems a person has. If an advisor were to notice the signs on their own, in my opinion, that would make the advice or help more genuine.

If a person knows the reason someone is trying to help them is just because they are not married, they may react negatively to the advice thinking, ‘They don’t really want to help me – they just want to check off the marriage box for me!’. If the advisor wanted to truly help the person come to peace with whatever the problem is, he would address the problem without the idea of marriage in mind, but instead with the idea of helping someone who needs it, whatever the outcome.

Sorry if I sound confusing - I do not think I am explaining myself clearly, but sometimes, the thoughts in my head don’t easily end up on paper! (or the computer, in this case )

 

[fgh_123]

I suppose it’s the ‘unnatural’ comment that I was reacting to. I don’t think it’s unnatural to ask people to suppress their desires. I think it’s actually good for us to learn not to act on our desires. It’s also good to learn that we don’t always get the things we desire, even if those things seem ‘very good’ or very pleasurable from the eyes of the world.

It’s VERY hard to hold back. Especially when you’re in a relationship and physically as well as emotionally bonding with someone but I would much rather hold back then give in and later find out that relationship doesn’t work out.

I guess I just don’t think sex is the greatest joy life has to offer. I don’t think St. Paul had somehow less of a life or that our Priests and Sisters are somehow missing out on some great aspect of life because they’ve chosen to forgo sex.

Absolutely, if we couldn’t suppress our desires, then we’d all be at it like rabbits, I’d probably have kicked the person who made me late for lectures etc etc.

However I’m merely pointing out that in my opinion there is a time when it becomes unnatural.

And yes, I’m not the biggest fan of celibacy in the priesthood etc. I get the symbolic value of it, and I think there would still be a strong correlation, but I think (as history is showing…) that going against nature long term reaps its own problems…

 

[nickybr38]

Absolutely, if we couldn’t suppress our desires, then we’d all be at it like rabbits, I’d probably have kicked the person who made me late for lectures etc etc.

However I’m merely pointing out that in my opinion there is a time when it becomes unnatural.

And yes, I’m not the biggest fan of celibacy in the priesthood etc. I get the symbolic value of it, and I think there would still be a strong correlation, but I think (as history is showing…) that going against nature long term reaps its own problems…

Celibacy does not lead to child abuse.

In case that’s what you’re insinuating.

 

[wiggbuggie]

guess i could join the club im 25 and never had a gf before

 

[fgh_123]

Celibacy does not lead to child abuse.

In case that’s what you’re insinuating.

No, even though I’m sure there is a weak correlation somewhere, it was not my intent to insinuate such a link.

Rather, the fact that celibacy as a blanket rule will lead those who adopted it due to the desire to follow their vocation to maybe be slightly strange.

 

[exoflare]

You are lucky to know your family is sarcastic; however, this is not the case for a lot of people.

That’s me, but I didn’t grow to fully realize the situation until a few years ago. It really does a lot of damage either way.

 

[nickybr38]

No, even though I’m sure there is a weak correlation somewhere, it was not my intent to insinuate such a link.

Rather, the fact that celibacy as a blanket rule will lead those who adopted it due to the desire to follow their vocation to maybe be slightly strange.

Lack of sex does not make people strange. Those who accept the rule of celibacy do so of their own free will. In fact, St. Paul highly regarded those who chose the celibate life. It is unscriptural, therefore, to see celibacy as strange, unnatural or misplaced in the Christian context.

And no, I don’t think of priestly celibacy as forced because these men choose that way of life. It is not forced on them.

 

[SeekNFind]

Unfortunately, most of my friends are in the same boat I am in. The ones that aren’t, are so liberal/athiestic that while I enjoy hanging out with them, I wouldn’t trust them when it comes to dating. I’ve tried online dating, but it just didn’t seem to work out. I’m not shy, I have no problems talking with people as long as there’s something worth talking about, there just simply aren’t any single females in any of my social circles for me to interact with.

Well, good luck in your search as well. I’m praying for all of us!

 

[SeekNFind]

The difference is that we as Catholics are meant to be celibate at all times, thus having to go through puberty, teenage years, 20’s, mid twenties and finally hit our thirties before we enjoy one of the best pleasures in life.

It’s not natural on any front, thats why I would feel bloody strange at still being unmarried at 30 (I’m 22).

I think the reality of protracted chastity is definitely a problem. I definitely think about sex sometimes but the clincher is I’m not interested in engaging in it unless I’m married. Period. A single Christian woman who was in her early 30s several years ago said that while she was practicing celibacy, she wasn’t sure if she thought it was realistic to encourage her future children to be celibate since she had to wait so long. I was very disheartened by what she said but I could understand. (Although I’m not in contact with her anymore, I heard she is married now or getting married!)

 

[SeekNFind]

Considering the joy I get merely from holding my girlfriends hand, yes I’d say it ranks up there. Haven’t had children so I wouldn’t know. I’d expect children to be the crowning moment, but it dosen’t stop it from being one of the best pleasures. It’s not all about the physical, more the emotional connection between two people.

This is so embarrassing to admit, but sometimes I fantasize about. . .holding a guy’s hand. I know, I know. it’s tragic.