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AgnosTheist
Guest
Hey hows the fight with Eli Soriano going these days?
- Status
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OnceAMember
Guest
This NewEra person had a battle of wits and was unarmed. First of all, Brother Felix Y. Manalo was indeed baptized.
The Iglesia teach that the word “Angel” in Greek means “Messenger.” There are heavenly angels from the 9 Orders with wings and there are human angels or men tasked by God to deliver messages or serve a purpose like the Big Four [instruments].
Prayers with “vain repetition” like Hail Mary’s should be avoided.
The “I and my Father are one” verse is translated as “one accord.” because the people are one with them as well. Otherwise all the people would be God too.
Since the Holy Spirit has 7 heads, wouldn’t that make it a Nine-ity instead of Trinity?
Just because Lamsa and Mofat translations have wrongly translated verses doesn’t make the whole thing incorrect.
They also believe John 1:1 to be translated: In the beginning was [the plan], and [the plan] came to fruition, and it was [Godly]. They say the translated Greek word was an adjective.
Jesus was dark skinned with hair like wool and His birthday was in months when shepherds have flocks out, not December. You wouldn’t recognize Him if you saw Him, thinking he’s blonde with blue eyes.
I initially was suckered by my shared belief that God chooses the lowly and meek nations to be his true people for mocking the upper classes. Just look at the Israelites… Poor ignorant slaves were the blessed, and not the powerfully rich or advanced Egyptians. Only Noah and his family were saved and not the rest of the world. God sticks with the minorities and the lowly worms like Jacob and Abraham.
Too bad some of their beliefs clashed with mine. They had some good points, but I don’t judge the whole by the acts of a few. Not all of them are murderous basketballers after getting mauled for throwing rocks. Not all Muslims are extremist Terrorists. Not all Catholic priests are gay pedophiles. Most Italian mafia bosses are non-practicing.
I believe the criminal next to Jesus was the luckiest bastard getting to live a life of sin and get Salvation in the end. Not fair.
The Iglesia teach that the word “Angel” in Greek means “Messenger.” There are heavenly angels from the 9 Orders with wings and there are human angels or men tasked by God to deliver messages or serve a purpose like the Big Four [instruments].
Prayers with “vain repetition” like Hail Mary’s should be avoided.
The “I and my Father are one” verse is translated as “one accord.” because the people are one with them as well. Otherwise all the people would be God too.
Since the Holy Spirit has 7 heads, wouldn’t that make it a Nine-ity instead of Trinity?
Just because Lamsa and Mofat translations have wrongly translated verses doesn’t make the whole thing incorrect.
They also believe John 1:1 to be translated: In the beginning was [the plan], and [the plan] came to fruition, and it was [Godly]. They say the translated Greek word was an adjective.
Jesus was dark skinned with hair like wool and His birthday was in months when shepherds have flocks out, not December. You wouldn’t recognize Him if you saw Him, thinking he’s blonde with blue eyes.
I initially was suckered by my shared belief that God chooses the lowly and meek nations to be his true people for mocking the upper classes. Just look at the Israelites… Poor ignorant slaves were the blessed, and not the powerfully rich or advanced Egyptians. Only Noah and his family were saved and not the rest of the world. God sticks with the minorities and the lowly worms like Jacob and Abraham.
Too bad some of their beliefs clashed with mine. They had some good points, but I don’t judge the whole by the acts of a few. Not all of them are murderous basketballers after getting mauled for throwing rocks. Not all Muslims are extremist Terrorists. Not all Catholic priests are gay pedophiles. Most Italian mafia bosses are non-practicing.
I believe the criminal next to Jesus was the luckiest bastard getting to live a life of sin and get Salvation in the end. Not fair.
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marlo
Guest
interesting,
Manalo was baptised catholic, but not INC member, he is not even a member of his church. since Jesus is also a Messenger of God, why dont they call Jesus an Angel?
the root word is vain repetition, we dont pray in Vain. but christ also pray repetitively to the Father in garden.
In jewish time, when you say, I and the Father is One, is an act of lifting yourself to Deity. If you were in Jesus time, is you say the exact word, You’ll be stoned to Death. because that is what Christ Meant.
when they say nine heads, but the dragon has seven heads but its not seven dragons.
well at least you admitted that Lamsa and Mofat translations are incorrect, if you can ask an INC pastor to stop using, they wont, because the wrong translation actually supports your doctrine.
If you know greek, you will understand the it is really Word and not Plan, however, INC does not even have its own bible translation, so how can you rely on its credibility to translate bibles when they cant even provide an accurate one.
regarding jesus birthday is really in december 25, in fact, it obvious that during jesus time, shepherds even put their flock in the winter, you can read this happening even in the Old testament
when a Filipino father wears blue contact lenses and color his hair blonde, you will still recognize him as your father, what more Christ the Lord.
Initially God choses israel, however God wants it to spread the news of salvation to the whole world, and not just in the philippines, and mostly INC members are filipinos. In fact INC could not even produce a 100 thousand pure blood non filipino members
the bad thing is that Manalo claims to be an Angel where Jesus was placed lower than him and INC claims that he is just a Man.
thanks
marlo
Manalo was baptised catholic, but not INC member, he is not even a member of his church. since Jesus is also a Messenger of God, why dont they call Jesus an Angel?
the root word is vain repetition, we dont pray in Vain. but christ also pray repetitively to the Father in garden.
In jewish time, when you say, I and the Father is One, is an act of lifting yourself to Deity. If you were in Jesus time, is you say the exact word, You’ll be stoned to Death. because that is what Christ Meant.
when they say nine heads, but the dragon has seven heads but its not seven dragons.
well at least you admitted that Lamsa and Mofat translations are incorrect, if you can ask an INC pastor to stop using, they wont, because the wrong translation actually supports your doctrine.
If you know greek, you will understand the it is really Word and not Plan, however, INC does not even have its own bible translation, so how can you rely on its credibility to translate bibles when they cant even provide an accurate one.
regarding jesus birthday is really in december 25, in fact, it obvious that during jesus time, shepherds even put their flock in the winter, you can read this happening even in the Old testament
when a Filipino father wears blue contact lenses and color his hair blonde, you will still recognize him as your father, what more Christ the Lord.
Initially God choses israel, however God wants it to spread the news of salvation to the whole world, and not just in the philippines, and mostly INC members are filipinos. In fact INC could not even produce a 100 thousand pure blood non filipino members
the bad thing is that Manalo claims to be an Angel where Jesus was placed lower than him and INC claims that he is just a Man.
thanks
marlo
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lorenzoruiz
Guest
and dont forget their famous conversion tactic of all------PROVIDING JOBSHi. I am a Filipina in Manila and new to this forum though I’ve been visiting Catholic Answers for awhile. Frankly, I got really dizzy following this thread :whacky: — but it was entertaining nonetheless.
I have been studying most teary-eyed testimonial from former Catholic INC converts (have on more than one occassion felt an overwhelming need to hit them in the head) and sadly, find that their conversion is a mostly a response to a lack of observed faith among Filipino Catholics. Unfortunately, I can validate this as your average Filipino Catholic acts like going to mass is pulling teeth. They seem to have responded mostly to INC’s “warm reception” and “strong, confident (bombastic?)” guidance" from ministers. Unfortunately with these “warm” things in place, plus the fact us Catholics ourselves have made anti-Catholicism so easy, indoctrination is an easy thing.
This is a minimization, I know. I am speculating that debate may not be the way to go about ministering to them as evidently they don’t seem to follow the normal rules of logic (an understatement!), unless of course you have them cornered as individuals rather than groups. We Filipinos are more affective than cognitive. I am still not sure how we can go about it, but my take is, if we see them, instead of attacking INC, perhaps we can educate them more on why Catholicism is a rich faith?
…not to say some serious bashing isn’t in order too…whatcha think?
don’t you know that local actress Janice deBelen had converted to the iglesia? my bible reading grandmother almost hit the tv with her bakya when she saw janice de belen at net 25
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lorenzoruiz
Guest
:crying: sorry i just read this thread today. newera’s questions and arguements are answered and refuted in “majestic” ways. i have the faintest idea, and kept banging the monitor right now “why oh why can’t he understand???” :crying:
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moises3255
Guest
Hello. My name is Moises, 
I live in San Pablo CA
I’m going to be honest.
The Bible do teach how to live in God’s law and the way it should be told said and done. easy, right? No, because (1 Corinthians 2:13 And we speak about them not with words taught by human wisdom, but with words taught by the Spirit, describing spiritual realities in spiritual terms.) How do we know the truth? Isaiah 28:13 So the word of the LORD to them will be,
“Order on order, order on order Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there,” That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.
Pardon me, this is what I learn and it’s said and done. I’m not going to take or add to this. And it’s just the beginning.
II Corinthians 6:4-5
Rather, as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance; in troubles, hardships and distresses; in beatings, imprisonments and riots; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger;
Ephesians 2:4-5
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
And we should continue to know God. Let us read.
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (KJV)
Continue on what it means…
Colossians 3:15
And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
You must know the Law of the Lord. There is one Father, one Son. Jesus the Way to the Father.
John 14:9-14
Jesus answered: "Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
I don’t give own thoughts and free form of though because that is not the righteous way of God. God is righteous, not us.
John 10:7,9
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
What should we do? Enter the body of Christ. Which is the body?
Romans 16:16
Greet one another with a holy kiss. The churches of Christ greet you.
Acts 20:28
Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
who’s blood? Christ’s Blood.
Ephesians 5:25, 23
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.
I’m a member of the Baptist Church in California. What I said is true? Yes. Because it all came from the Bible. Jesus said he loves his church. He is the head of his church. Just like I have one wife, and Jesus have his one church. Again. I know the truth what is written.
I want to say God Bless to everyone here. Thank you for knowing this little passage. Understand the meaning of true and we should live in God’s ways and his ways only. He comes first and believe our Lord Jesus Christ is our mediator to the Father in Heaven. I believe in true worship, praying, and giving offering.
What is the true church? The Church of Christ. It is written in the Bible, no other book. As a member of a Baptist Church, the name of it, is Not Church of Christ. It’s a different name.
I live in San Pablo CA
I’m going to be honest.
The Bible do teach how to live in God’s law and the way it should be told said and done. easy, right? No, because (1 Corinthians 2:13 And we speak about them not with words taught by human wisdom, but with words taught by the Spirit, describing spiritual realities in spiritual terms.) How do we know the truth? Isaiah 28:13 So the word of the LORD to them will be,
“Order on order, order on order Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there,” That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.
Pardon me, this is what I learn and it’s said and done. I’m not going to take or add to this. And it’s just the beginning.
II Corinthians 6:4-5
Rather, as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance; in troubles, hardships and distresses; in beatings, imprisonments and riots; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger;
Ephesians 2:4-5
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
And we should continue to know God. Let us read.
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (KJV)
Continue on what it means…
Colossians 3:15
And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
You must know the Law of the Lord. There is one Father, one Son. Jesus the Way to the Father.
John 14:9-14
Jesus answered: "Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
I don’t give own thoughts and free form of though because that is not the righteous way of God. God is righteous, not us.
John 10:7,9
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
What should we do? Enter the body of Christ. Which is the body?
Romans 16:16
Greet one another with a holy kiss. The churches of Christ greet you.
Acts 20:28
Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
who’s blood? Christ’s Blood.
Ephesians 5:25, 23
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.
I’m a member of the Baptist Church in California. What I said is true? Yes. Because it all came from the Bible. Jesus said he loves his church. He is the head of his church. Just like I have one wife, and Jesus have his one church. Again. I know the truth what is written.
I want to say God Bless to everyone here. Thank you for knowing this little passage. Understand the meaning of true and we should live in God’s ways and his ways only. He comes first and believe our Lord Jesus Christ is our mediator to the Father in Heaven. I believe in true worship, praying, and giving offering.
What is the true church? The Church of Christ. It is written in the Bible, no other book. As a member of a Baptist Church, the name of it, is Not Church of Christ. It’s a different name.
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eggie
Guest
Mr. Felix Y. Manalo was the founder of his Church. but, how or who could baptized him since he is the 1st member of his church???
Jesus Christ was able to pass on the authority of the Church to the first Pope(Simon Peter).
Jesus Christ was able to pass on the authority of the Church to the first Pope(Simon Peter).
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4Squarebaby
Guest
The thread title was how can we help them. With my dealings with casual INC members you always reach the point where Newara keep saying to go talk to her church elders, watch their broadcast. The term I hear is its not our place to debate it is the minister’s job. So you are invited to their Bible study, once they lock the gate for security purposes you will be alone and cut from support. In a place where normally its the individual believer normally of limted training versus the INC minister.
Like the JWs if one converts out of INC the extended family will cut them off. In family concious pinoy culture you better get that first generation INC member because everyone following will be increasingly difficult to deal with. Their restrictions on entering the any but an INC house of worship, even to attend a friend’s wedding or funeral means that you will be alone in your battle. Father’s of INC families have been known to use corporal punisment on family members who break that restriction. Unless he has already left the INC he will not meet your pastor or attend a Bible study. The convert out of INC has to be adopted into a new spiritual and worldly family. You can’t hit and run evangelize and leave him for the followup crew, the INC family will reel him back in to aleve his loneliness
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trdchubi
Guest
I totally agree with you on this one. However You forgot to mention the 'M’s here. In fact INC allegely fabricated a video to enrage the 'M’s to attack their common critic Eliseo Soriano. Talk about connivance.
If you will dissect the INCs and the Ms you will find obvious similarities in their doctrines. Both believed that Christ is just a man, denial of the trinity,separation of men and women in worship, aside from the banishment of apostate family members etc. Sounds like cultism to me.
Lets just point out to their members that they just LEVELED themselves with a religion who promote violence against unbelievers.
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pathurr19
Guest
over at pinoyexchange.com forums…over at the thread of real of though…and sub thread iglesia ni cristo…we are continuously attacked by INC and twisting our words so as to make theirs correct…need back up there!!
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Filipo
Guest
I’m just so curious why non-catholics always boast that their faith is really from the bible but it is the catholics that compile god inspired teachings to create a book named “bible”. And knowing that Catholics are the first makers of the bible, then all of their teachings is actually must be directed from the piece that they’d made.
Another thing… I’m just wondering that non-catholics boast their religious sects as a true path even we all know that their founders is not actually christ but only an ordinary human. Reflecting from the church history, the early christians are those in rome being persecuted. Those early christians are thus orgranized by one peron named Peter, who was the primordial Pope.
What is a Pope? A pope refers to a leader of a cult or religion which specifically refers nowadays to the pontiff.
Who is Peter? Peter is an apostle who was commanded by Christ to serve as His Rock (literary means as foundation) to the true Church that he will build.
I’m just wondering why non-catholics accused catholics as not basing their teachings only from the bible even if we all know that the bible was made only many years after Jesus died. Thus… through knowing that… the bible, itself is incomplete. The teachings of Christ are both written and unwritten.
What are for those unwritten? Well… those are teachings that are passed from one generation to another through means of oral tradition and religious practices.
What will happen to the true Church that Christ will built? Well, the bible, itself, say that the “Flock” of Christ that was originally build by Christ will be stumbled through the “Wolves” disguising as a sheep to lead many sheeps astray.
Another thing… I’m just wondering that non-catholics boast their religious sects as a true path even we all know that their founders is not actually christ but only an ordinary human. Reflecting from the church history, the early christians are those in rome being persecuted. Those early christians are thus orgranized by one peron named Peter, who was the primordial Pope.
What is a Pope? A pope refers to a leader of a cult or religion which specifically refers nowadays to the pontiff.
Who is Peter? Peter is an apostle who was commanded by Christ to serve as His Rock (literary means as foundation) to the true Church that he will build.
I’m just wondering why non-catholics accused catholics as not basing their teachings only from the bible even if we all know that the bible was made only many years after Jesus died. Thus… through knowing that… the bible, itself is incomplete. The teachings of Christ are both written and unwritten.
What are for those unwritten? Well… those are teachings that are passed from one generation to another through means of oral tradition and religious practices.
What will happen to the true Church that Christ will built? Well, the bible, itself, say that the “Flock” of Christ that was originally build by Christ will be stumbled through the “Wolves” disguising as a sheep to lead many sheeps astray.
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losav
Guest
Desperate, www.resbak.com called Mr. Keating a blind apologist…
resbak.com/blog/2009/03/21/ivatan-blogger-parrots-keating-blind-leading-the-blind/
resbak.com/blog/2009/03/21/ivatan-blogger-parrots-keating-blind-leading-the-blind/
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IVDAE
Guest
***hi i just a new member and i read the arguments of newera.
I guess she is one of the victim of some of the pastors of inc.sadly many filipino catholics are convinced by the inc because of lack of knowledge about the catholic faith.inc fools many catholics in preaching wrong interpretations and accusing catholic church as a apostate church.so catholics i invite you to read the “know the truth” magazine of fr.paul kaiparambadan.so that you may know that our church is one true church founded by jesus christ and not the “iglesia ni manalo” so that you may not converted to inc like other catholics ***
I guess she is one of the victim of some of the pastors of inc.sadly many filipino catholics are convinced by the inc because of lack of knowledge about the catholic faith.inc fools many catholics in preaching wrong interpretations and accusing catholic church as a apostate church.so catholics i invite you to read the “know the truth” magazine of fr.paul kaiparambadan.so that you may know that our church is one true church founded by jesus christ and not the “iglesia ni manalo” so that you may not converted to inc like other catholics ***
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IVDAE
Guest
OK LISTEN MY FELLOW CATHOLICS, I HAVE READ THE ARGUMENTS OF MANALO AND ALL OF HIS ANSWER ARE FALSE AND HERETICAL!!!MY FELLOW FAITHFUL THE INC IS THE APOSTATE CHURCH W/C IS BUILD BY A HERETIC TO DESTROY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH I GUESS MANALO WAS A GOOD MASON.(LOOK AT THE ICON OF THE INC IT IS A LAMB AND BEHIND IT IT IS THE COMPASS AND THE INVERTED TRIANGLE W/C ARE MASONIC SYMBOL!!!)
I GUESS THAT ICON IS REPRESENTING THE WOLF BEHIND THE SHEEP, WAITING TO ATTACK!!PREACHING THE OPPOSITE MEANING OF THE BIBLE AND PUTTING ANGER OF SATAN TO THE FAITHFUL CATHOLICS WHO ARE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE CATHOLIC FAITH[/FONT="Times Mew Roman]
PAX TIBI
I GUESS THAT ICON IS REPRESENTING THE WOLF BEHIND THE SHEEP, WAITING TO ATTACK!!PREACHING THE OPPOSITE MEANING OF THE BIBLE AND PUTTING ANGER OF SATAN TO THE FAITHFUL CATHOLICS WHO ARE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE CATHOLIC FAITH[/FONT="Times Mew Roman]
PAX TIBI
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churchdefender
Guest
Seriously, this owner of Resbak.com is totally ignorant of the Catholic Church and if you see his arguments in his site, he’s totally in error.
Do you think he can still come back to the right path?
Do you think he can still come back to the right path?
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losav
Guest
In my own experience, they are desperate enough to destroy the Church but of course they can’t so they’d resort to personality assissination as what they have done to me and my family and friends.
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losav
Guest
Of course, you don’t have OFFICIAL WEBSITE where we can quote your teachings.
anyway, newera was banned from this site, perhaps because he/she doesn’t know how to communicate humanely.
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crisanthony13
Guest
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read_me
Guest
I think the title of this discussion is WRONG. it mus be, IGLESIA NI CRISTO members helped them… haha right. woaah. there is so many myths, accusations, opinions and other destructive comments about the INC. Why? because the INC are INCREASING of numbers because god helping us. and how about the catholics? we all know that they are decreasing in number, why? it is because their members had been joining another religions that they discover the wrongness of the doctrines in their church^_^
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M_catholic
Guest
ohh really?
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