I'm LDS....let's learn from eachother.....

  • Thread starter Thread starter Brother_Dorsey
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I have one question, if your Catholic, then why not have it Blessed and receive the graces that go with wearing it devoutly? Read about that in the CCC. Why do you think the Miraculous Medal is called a “miraculous.” Medal??? Did you know that someone gave Charles Lindburg a Miraculous Medal just before he went on his transatlantic flight, and he hung it in the cockpit. And he told how every time he started to fall asleep that medal would bump into something and cause him to wake up. He credited it for saving his life. He was NOT a Catholic.
I had the same question in my mind. I don’t think that he realized what it means to have a medal or a rosary blessed. There is a special significance to having such items blessed. Most catholics have special items blessed because they believe that the item becomes more potent and more meaning. It is also a sign of faith to do so.
 
Hi Memaw,

I think you’re a little bit grouchy. Sorry about that.

Look, it wasn’t an insult. If anything it was a compliment.

Where are the the places Catholics live in the U.S.? On the East Coast you have Mass., VT., NH,. On the west coast you have Washington State.

These are the Catholic states, and they’re nice places, where people are treated like adults by their governments. I can go to one of these states and carry a gun if I want to, and I can marry a dude if I want to, and I can smoke pot if I have a reason to. (Granted, I wouldn’t do any of those things, but it’s the principle of it all). They’re pro-choice, progressive places (at least by U.S. standards) where people are allowed to make their own decisions, within reason.

So, don’t be grouchy. I’d far rather hang out in one of the Catholic states than, say, Utah, where my people run the show; or Oklahoma, which is full of fundamentalist protestants.
First of all, stating the truth is NOT being grouchy. Secondly if they are doing most of the things you say they are, then they are NOT Catholic, NO MATTER what they call themselves. Everyone in the Catholic Church has a free will and the Church cannot interfere with free will. She teaches us what is right or wrong and its up to us to follow the Teaching Magisterium of the Church. There are serious consequences to sin for everyone Catholic or not.
 
I had the same question in my mind. I don’t think that he realized what it means to have a medal or a rosary blessed. There is a special significance to having such items blessed. Most catholics have special items blessed because they believe that the item becomes more potent and more meaning. It is also a sign of faith to do so.
So, if a medal was blessed for the original person, and the recipient gave it to a non-Catholic friend as a gift, would the blessing be transferable?

I guess what I’m asking is whether Catholic folklore holds that it is the medal which is blessed, or is it the person, and the medal is a symbol of the personal blessing?
 
I have one question, if your Catholic, then why not have it Blessed and receive the graces that go with wearing it devoutly? Read about that in the CCC. Why do you think the Miraculous Medal is called a “miraculous.” Medal??? Did you know that someone gave Charles Lindburg a Miraculous Medal just before he went on his transatlantic flight, and he hung it in the cockpit. And he told how every time he started to fall asleep that medal would bump into something and cause him to wake up. He credited it for saving his life. He was NOT a Catholic.
thank you for that question, adn it is a good one. no i did not know about Lindbergh and the Medal, but since he was not Catholic i would assume that the medal he carried gave him no graces. A medal has nothing intrinsic to itself. God has the power, not the medal. it may very well be that this story is true, and happened just the way you related it, but unless Lindbergh became Catholic as a result, then it sounds like a story that implies that the medal held some magical power without regard to the faith of the holder.

perhaps I will someday have it blessed, but i believe i mentioned previously that i have a protestant background, so that many things are seen through those fevered eyes! let me say that i also keep a container of holy water next to my door, and i bless myself with it as i leave the house (though sometimes i do forget), but i honestly do not believe that the holy water itself possesses any intrinsic power to confer grace, nor do i believe that a blessed medal possesses any intrinsic power in the same way. perhaps this is my protestant aftertaste, i suspect that it is. i see the holy water as a reminder of my baptism, adn it reminds me that i belong to Jesus as i leave my house. if it gives me greater graces that i am unaware of, all the better! my awareness of these is probably beside the pointt.

to be perfectly honest, my taking some item of jewelry to a priest to be blessed seems silly to me. probably the same as my former protestant friends would consider even the wearing of a medal to be silly.

however i am not opposed to this practice of having medals blessed. but i do not believe that it is mandatory, any more than it is mandatory that i wear a medal in the first place.

i thank you for your advice, and value it. I will consider this question.
 
So, if a medal was blessed for the original person, and the recipient gave it to a non-Catholic friend as a gift, would the blessing be transferable?

I guess what I’m asking is whether Catholic folklore holds that it is the medal which is blessed, or is it the person, and the medal is a symbol of the personal blessing?
this appears to be misunderstanding sacramentals. the “medal” has no power. that is superstition and heretical. The Person becomes invested by the priest giving the blessing. as long as the person is true to the order they are being invested with then the get the blessings of that order. the place of sacramentals is to remind us of sacraments so that we can be focused on and grateful for Gods grace. some specific sacramentals go further in reminding us of actions and devotions that we have promised to take/make. once again they are merely symbols to help us stay focused on God.
 
this appears to be misunderstanding sacramentals. the “medal” has no power. that is superstition and heretical. The Person becomes invested by the priest giving the blessing. as long as the person is true to the order they are being invested with then the get the blessings of that order. the place of sacramentals is to remind us of sacraments so that we can be focused on and grateful for Gods grace. some specific sacramentals go further in reminding us of actions and devotions that we have promised to take/make. once again they are merely symbols to help us stay focused on God.
Thanks Majick. That’s a good explanation.
 
.
Sorry R C Matt but you need a good class in your Catholic Faith, and especially in the use and understanding of Sacramentals. If the holy Medal your parents gave you for Confirmation means no more to you than that, then they wasted their efforts. Just explain to me what you mean when you say there is a world of difference between a Holy Medal and a garment. According to you, wearing a holy medal is not much different than wearing a watch or ring.
A medal or any sacramental is a choice in how one directs and observes their devotional life. Mass on Sunday is a requirement, since Christ, present in the Eucharist, is our King and Lord and we must attend and bow the knee to him as his subjects; subjects, not citizens in the same way we live in democracy. I can, on the other hand, direct my own personal life of devotion to Jesus any number of ways, as the Second of the Triune persons and King, as the sacrificial Lamb of God, or to the love he bore us in his Sacred Heart, any number of other ways. It’s a choice we all make, the rosary is a devotional and the beads can be sacramentals, we can devote our intercessions through any number of saints who best reflect how we feel about approaching the Throne of God.

I observe a devotion to St. Dymphna, a 7th cent. virgin princess martyred by her father when she refused his erotic advances. I wrote a book (really, an unpublished manuscript) based on her devotion. I pray the rosary, I ask the intercession of Jesus through the good offices of the Virgin Mary in any number of ways and attitudes. But I am not required to wear crucifixes, medals, pins, or ribbons as a sign of my devotion. I choose to. Something which many don’t nowadays. As a child, I might even have worn underwear that my mother had blessed–good ole Stanfield’s, Nova Scotia made, even if the family was presbyterian Scots–Mother’s, what can you do? That was her choice, and the priest might have raised an eyebrow or two. But no priest or bishop is going to hold me in contempt of devotion for not wearing my blessed socks and skivvies. In fact, most clergy would scratch their head at someone who asked them to bless their skivvies. Ain’t that so, gang?

Having talked to my share of Mormons, attended their services and listened to their Bible and BoM studies, it’s a religion that takes control of people’s lives. Yes, they tend to take much of the Bible out of context, most everyone does, that’s nothing new, but they force an interpolation of Biblical passages, frontier American life (ca. 1800 - 1850), their own desires into the genie bottle of religion. There is no record of archaelogical veracity to what the BoM claims about the civilizations that are said to have taken root from Israel (ca. 600BCE). Granted that Smith used a period of social and military upheaval in Judah to set the beginning of his tale, but since the BoM is so archaic in literary form, attempting to mimic the Authorized Version of 1611 (KJV), the story from book to book is almost unreadable, with its “Then it came to pass …” repeated in every other sentence.

To be Mormon, you have to give up any semblance of rational thought and fundamental understanding of history, literature, and literacy. Catholics have faith in Jesus Christ, but they don’t and would not accept the Bible and the teaching of the clergy if a social and historical basis of fact did not underpin it. Jesus existed, we have noted third party sources to back up the assertion; Moroni left nothing behind of any real value that can be studied and evaluated in terms of Smith’s assertions. No cities have been found, no written sources of history similar to or even copies of the Golden Plates on parchment, skins, even lead plates are available. Things that are rational and proper questions are forced into the background by Mormons when they tell people that they should ask for some kind of blessing that Mormonism is true. But making the assertion and actually managing to be credible without real, tangible proof is the sign of a cult, not a rational understanding of theology and faith. Biblical sources have hundreds of manuscripts from which to draw for translation and study. They have not been hidden or returned to heaven. The Roman Catholic Church and its members wrote the NT, eventually decided its canonical structure, and teaches it to this day. We don’t need to have a set of holy underwear to prove our devotion

But one thing puzzles me, if you wear this underwear all the time, why don’t Mormon’s smell more? After all, they aren’t allowed to take it off, or can they have a couple of changes?
 
thank you for that question, adn it is a good one. no i did not know about Lindbergh and the Medal, but since he was not Catholic i would assume that the medal he carried gave him no graces. A medal has nothing intrinsic to itself. God has the power, not the medal. it may very well be that this story is true, and happened just the way you related it, but unless Lindbergh became Catholic as a result, then it sounds like a story that implies that the medal held some magical power without regard to the faith of the holder.

perhaps I will someday have it blessed, but i believe i mentioned previously that i have a protestant background, so that many things are seen through those fevered eyes! let me say that i also keep a container of holy water next to my door, and i bless myself with it as i leave the house (though sometimes i do forget), but i honestly do not believe that the holy water itself possesses any intrinsic power to confer grace, nor do i believe that a blessed medal possesses any intrinsic power in the same way. perhaps this is my protestant aftertaste, i suspect that it is. i see the holy water as a reminder of my baptism, adn it reminds me that i belong to Jesus as i leave my house. if it gives me greater graces that i am unaware of, all the better! my awareness of these is probably beside the pointt.

to be perfectly honest, my taking some item of jewelry to a priest to be blessed seems silly to me. probably the same as my former protestant friends would consider even the wearing of a medal to be silly.

however i am not opposed to this practice of having medals blessed. but i do not believe that it is mandatory, any more than it is mandatory that i wear a medal in the first place.

i thank you for your advice, and value it. I will consider this question.
I am not sure where you are in your journey of Faith, you say you have a protestant background, yet you use Holy Water that must have been blessed or else it would be just plain water. A medal that has not been Blessed is just plain jewelry. It carries no blessing. ALL “power” comes from GOD. Nothing has Spiritual value except what comes from God. Its not right to try to say otherwise. You need to learn about and try to understand the use of Sacramentals. I imagine Lindburg thought saving his life was a Grace.
 
Unless it’s been changed very recently, which I sincerely doubt, Mormons are supposed to wear the garments day and night in order to retain a temple recommend. I assume you don’t have a TR (at least I hope not), so it’s not an issue for you.
Since I read the beginning of this discussion about garments this morning, it got me to thinking about a few things. Yes, I have read that Mormons are suppose to wear them night and day. I didn’t know all the reasons or anything, but I knew it was supposedly a requirement of some sort. But, my one question is, what do you do when you go swimming or, like Donny Osmond when he was in Joseph, how would he have worn his garments under say a tiny loin cloth like in the following picture? I was hoping to find some good link with a picture, but it wasn’t working out. But I think everyone gets my drift.

Then I got to thinking that perhaps you simply take a small part of an old garment and sew it into a swimsuit, or in Donny’s case into the loin cloth. Or another thought that occured to me is that you simply have “modern” garments that are suited to a swimsuit and that’s what he wore.

BTW, there is no disrespect intended. I was simply curious because it’s something that has occured to me over the years.

:kissme: Kathy
 
Hi Kathy,

This is a fair question…
Since I read the beginning of this discussion about garments this morning, it got me to thinking about a few things. Yes, I have read that Mormons are suppose to wear them night and day. I didn’t know all the reasons or anything, but I knew it was supposedly a requirement of some sort. But, my one question is, what do you do when you go swimming or, like Donny Osmond when he was in Joseph, how would he have worn his garments under say a tiny loin cloth like in the following picture? BTW, I hope the link works.

www.bbc.co.uk

Then I got to thinking that perhaps you simply take a small part of an old garment and sew it into a swimsuit, or in Donny’s case into the loin cloth. Or another thought that occured to me is that you simply have “modern” garments that are suited to a swimsuit and that’s what he wore.

BTW, there is no disrespect intended. I was simply curious becaus it’s something that has occured to me over the years.

:kissme: Kathy
RC_Matt is technically correct, but at the same time he’s not. When you go to the temple you promise to wear your garments day and night, except where they are inappropriate.

Donny Osmond is not wearing his temple garments when he’s on Broadway. Mormons who go to the beach don’t cut out the symbols to stuff into their speedos when they go to the beach either. In these contexts they would obviously be inappropriate.

“inappropriate” is a word which has many interpretations. Many Mormons outside Utah (at least in my generation, and those younger than I) interpret this to mean that we can wear them when we are comfortable doing so, and refuse to wear them when we are not comfortable doing so. Bishops and Stake Presidents are forbidden to order people to strip down to check, so the “requirement” is ultimately up to the individual.

You can find more information on what garments are and different interpretations as to the rules all over the internet. This is my interpretation, and I’m sure many Mormons will have various others. That’s as it should be.
 
Hi Kathy,

This is a fair question…

RC_Matt is technically correct, but at the same time he’s not. When you go to the temple you promise to wear your garments day and night, except where they are inappropriate.

Donny Osmond is not wearing his temple garments when he’s on Broadway. Mormons who go to the beach don’t cut out the symbols to stuff into their speedos when they go to the beach either. In these contexts they would obviously be inappropriate.

“inappropriate” is a word which has many interpretations. Many Mormons outside Utah (at least in my generation, and those younger than I) interpret this to mean that we can wear them when we are comfortable doing so, and refuse to wear them when we are not comfortable doing so. Bishops and Stake Presidents are forbidden to order people to strip down to check, so the “requirement” is ultimately up to the individual.

You can find more information on what garments are and different interpretations as to the rules all over the internet. This is my interpretation, and I’m sure many Mormons will have various others. That’s as it should be.
Thank you. But I’m sure there are still Mormons who are from “the old school” who would wear them all the time no matter what.

:kissme: Kathy
 
Why not deconstruct the bible?

For that matter: Why complain about the Mormons, when the same thing happens here constantly? Why not complain about it here?
I think you misundestand what meant.

Im not suggesting that you should not attack/question/deconstruct the bible, I think there are parts of it that are false. What I am saying is that you shouldnt do it in an attempt to validate the BoM, it doesnt achieve anything.

The idea of “If you attack the BoM, you attack the bible” simply isnt true, its simply a way of scaring christians from attacking the BoM. Which doesnt work if the person isnt a christian.
The idea that you can prove the stories in the bible with the bible itself is a little like a con man, who is trying to pass a zillion dollar check, with the idea that the check is good because we can see the check. It’s called circular reasoning (and if I figured this out at age 12, I doubt anyone here actually believes it, despite the chest thumping).
I agree, thats why I like to use other means to validate biblical/historical things. like physical evidence that archeologist dig up.

There is a new finding in Greece that seems to indicate that Spartans did not cast unwanted babies off Mount (I cant remember its name) like we thought, they are finding the remains of adults at its base rather than the infant remains they thought would be there.

It might be the nerd in me, but I found that very interesting and I think it could change what we thought of Spartans (or Lakediamonians) significantly.
If the only argument for the existence of Jesus is this one (and I’ve never seen another one) then why not join me in worshiping Inanna, queen of heaven this morning? If we think Jesus existed, then we know she exists, because she’s mentioned in the cuneiform tablets we dig up from Sumerian sites. Those tablets are thousands of years older than the ones that mention Jesus, King David, Zeus and Apollo, so by the logic of the Catholics she’s even more “true” than these other characters (who Catholics think is “more true” than Lehi and Nephi for the same reason).
Interesting point.
Hail Inanna, the true goddess, who descended into the underworld and returned unscathed! Hail the queen of heaven!
Actually I prefer Norse mythology myself. Although I have been reading ancient Egyptian mythology recently and believe it or not, it was the “book of Abraham” that got me interested in it.
 
“inappropriate” is a word which has many interpretations. Many Mormons outside Utah (at least in my generation, and those younger than I) interpret this to mean that we can wear them when we are comfortable doing so, and refuse to wear them when we are not comfortable doing so. Bishops and Stake Presidents are forbidden to order people to strip down to check, so the “requirement” is ultimately up to the individual.
Isn’t one the worthiness questions for a temple recommend “Do you wear the garments of the holy priesthood day and night?”

I remember being asked that in TR interviews.

Paul
 
Thank you. But I’m sure there are still Mormons who are from “the old school” who would wear them all the time no matter what.

:kissme: Kathy
I don’ think that there was ever such an old school. Mormons have always been swimming and it is impossible to wear your garments when you swim. Remember, the garments are made of cotton and so they would take quite a while to dry. Not to mention when you work out in a gym among other places where one is required to change into something that is just a little more shorter. And summer…

But in the end, it is up to the individual just how short his or her shorts should be if they wish to wear their garments in the summer.
 
Isn’t one the worthiness questions for a temple recommend “Do you wear the garments of the holy priesthood day and night?”

I remember being asked that in TR interviews.

Paul
What year was that?
 
Isn’t one the worthiness questions for a temple recommend “Do you wear the garments of the holy priesthood day and night?”

I remember being asked that in TR interviews.

Paul
Do you wear the garments day and night as instructed in the endowment.

I’m not callin’ you a liar. You’re from the old school generation, with the one piecers and all that. I’m sure that both the endowment ceremony and the garments and the questions were different in your day.

According to my old bishop, the temple recommend questions were reworked at some point in the past, with stern instructions on how to ask them and limitations for local leaders. These were all done for the benefit of postmodernists such as myself, who spin definitions in ways we find coherent with our personal relationship with the divine. There are a great number of us in the church these days, and the brethren don’t want to lose (whatever we define as) ten percent of our increase.
 
I don’ think that there was ever such an old school. Mormons have always been swimming and it is impossible to wear your garments when you swim. Remember, the garments are made of cotton and so they would take quite a while to dry. Not to mention when you work out in a gym among other places where one is required to change into something that is just a little more shorter. And summer…

But in the end, it is up to the individual just how short his or her shorts should be if they wish to wear their garments in the summer.
I love the fact that people ask questions, get honest answers, and then tell the answerer that they know better. If that were true, why ask the question? (Rhetorical question, of course; I know why…)

It’s a great idea tho’. Cutting the symbols off and slipping them into my pocket has the potential to be incredibly convenient. Dunno what my sp would think about it, but he don’t have to know. 👍
 
I don’ think that there was ever such an old school. Mormons have always been swimming and it is impossible to wear your garments when you swim. Remember, the garments are made of cotton and so they would take quite a while to dry. Not to mention when you work out in a gym among other places where one is required to change into something that is just a little more shorter. And summer…

But in the end, it is up to the individual just how short his or her shorts should be if they wish to wear their garments in the summer.
I would imagine that it wouldn’t be to healthy especially for women to wear them all the time, hopefully they can change them daily. Where in the world did that sort of thing originate anyway. A Nuns habit is entirely different as they can and do change them, and they are outer garments to signify what order they belong to, much like a uniform worn by many other people such as police, military, etc.
 
These were all done for the benefit of postmodernists such as myself, who spin definitions in ways we find coherent with our personal relationship with the divine.
You sound like Bill Clinton…:rotfl: :bounce:
 
I would imagine that it wouldn’t be to healthy especially for women to wear them all the time, hopefully they can change them daily. Where in the world did that sort of thing originate anyway. A Nuns habit is entirely different as they can and do change them, and they are outer garments to signify what order they belong to, much like a uniform worn by many other people such as police, military, etc.
Mormons can change their garments every day if they wish. Or five times a day. It does not matter. Now it if a woman chooses to wear her garments in the summer, she will be modestly dressed, since no part of the garment should be showing. If you go to Utah, you will know who is wearing garments and who isn’t.

A nun’s habit of course depends on the convent. I know plain clothes nuns and nuns that wear a strict habit. And others that a more modern style with hair showing. It all depends. I think that mormon garment originates from the old testament. The hasidi (a Jewish sect)also wear garments.

As a side note: perhaps catholic woman should also wear garments. I have seen some rather sexy women coming to catholic church dressed like the cat’s meow. :tiphat:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top