That’s sorta interesting.
All I know is, my old friends and fellow Druids who were also members of the OTO considered this book - the one written by “Simon”, not any of the other Lovecraft spoof necronomicons floating about - to be the biggest piece of trash ever written in the area of magic. And that’s saying a lot, because there’s a lot of trash out there. If this book contains authentic Sumerian rituals, there’s got to be a way to verify those rituals from a reputable source, which would hopefully present them in the correct context.From what I’ve been told, by Mormons, they are expected to pay 10% of their income (a full tithe) plus fast offerings. Some people pay the 10% on net income, some pay it on gross; the determination is left to the individual. Tithing is supposed to be paid before any other expenses, in other words before rent/house payments, utilities, groceries, etc. They don’t verify this, but they are asked if they pay a full tithe during the interview to get or retain a temple recommend and must answer in the affirmative to get the TR. Not paying a full tithe does not impact memebership status; but one cannot go to the temple, even to attend weddings. All funds are sent to Salt Lake City, which in turn allocates some funds back to the stakes/wards/branches. No financial information is shared with members.
well many pagans are “spell snobs” all pontificating about what is or isn’t “real” magic. the necronomicon is much like the keys of solomon or the book of abra melin the mage in that it IS a piece of fiction that was marketed as some mystic tome. it also shares with those works an origin in mythical ritual. just as the other thre books contained kabalistical “magic” that was based on old jewish myths the necronomicon alleged ancient mysteries that were really just copied sumerian rituals. they are not that impressive. (reality rarely is) and as there is no magic they don’t do anything. BUT they are in line with what little we know about sumerian worship. druids tend to the celtic mythos and the OTO types are notorious spell snobs who love to show off how knowledgeable they are about “real magic”. the necronomicon is nothing more than basic cereal offerings and ritual devotions to the various sumerian idols with instructions copied form any good anthropology text on how to construct talismans and perform basic sympathetic magic.
ETA: More here:
chaosmatrix.org/library/chaos/texts/simnecro.html
I don’t see ibkc’s posts and ordinarily don’t care too much about anything she has to say. Last week she was boasting about being in a master’s program someplace but didn’t understand terms like “cv”, so I quit wasting my time with her.
the mormon version is very similar to the wealth and prosperity godspell sects it seems to me. they are big on what the tither gets in return. i think this is backasswards. of course there are quite a few various ways to interpret these things; tithing is primarily an OT thing and hardly mentioned at all in the NT at least not in detail.
My understanding is that all the surplus is sent to SLC, after ward and stake needs are met. (edited to add: this was the case a couple of years ago, anyway…if they changed this then they’re really turning the screws.)
This is my biggest gripe about the LDS church. They like to yelp and kvetch about the Vatican being “full of looted treasure, stolen from holocaust victims”. (Not an exact quote, but very close to what was injected into a sunday school lesson a couple of years ago).
by george, i think he’s got it!I can make it happen for 10% of your increase, paid directly to me…
I understand something was changed, though I don’t recall the details. I was told that the Wards were previously allowed to retain most (more?) of the collections and funds were therefore available for activities that everybody enjoyed. At some point this was changed and they’ve had to scale back on the fun stuff; some people are pretty P.O.ed about that too.
Thanks for the reprieve from OD, LOL. Awhile back Zerinus dude was spewing some venom about people who have had repeated conversion attempts and still refuse to become Mormons. Said that puts us in the same category as apostate Mormons, i.e., sons of perdition; sooooo, off to hell we go…. Figured I’d accommodate him.You’re not going to outer darkness, by the way. I just used the power of the holy melchizedek priesthood to release you from any foot dustings or proxy work which may be done, past or future. You’re going to Catholic heaven…unless you want to get into the Celestial Kingdom. I can make it happen for 10% of your increase, paid directly to me…
I think you might be talking about correlation (?)
Well, Zerinus will be disappointed to know that his curse didn’t work. My priesthood magic is much more powerful than his. (He’s not correct anyway.)
In a previous post I was referring to priests who have to administer the host to women who may be just revealing too much. I think that women need to be considerate to the priest and dress accordingly. It has been explained to my about feelings being perfectly normal etc. But I also think that women who dress immodestly in church can allow the priest to entertain thoughts that he perhaps should not be entertaining.
The amount of tithe comes directly from the Old Testament and it has to do wth giving to god what is his. Of course the chirstian church in its early days had instructed its members to give much more than 10%… People were required to have things in common and so they sold their houses and land and possessions and laid the money at the apostles feet to be distributed accordingly. Those who lied about their possessions had their life taken from them by god. (See acts 4: 32-37; acts 5: 1-11)
My wife’s grandfather was the biggest non-Mormon fan of the United Order. He was born on the Lower East Side of NYC in the Jewish ghetto (my mother in law was born in Brooklyn, in another Jewish neighborhood). They came to the West coast after WWII (he was a hero in the pacific theatre).The amount of tithe comes directly from the Old Testament and it has to do wth giving to god what is his. Of course the chirstian church in its early days had instructed its members to give much more than 10%… People were required to have things in common and so they sold their houses and land and possessions and laid the money at the apostles feet to be distributed accordingly. Those who lied about their possessions had their life taken from them by god. (See acts 4: 32-37; acts 5: 1-11)
Considering those times, 10% is nothing in comparison.
The mormon have something comparable to those times called the United Order. This is an interesting concept. JS tried to do it in the early days but the lds were not ready for such a sacrafice. And they still aren’t. And so, no United Order yet.
GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES
United Order
See also Consecrate, Law of Consecration
An organization through which the Saints in the early days of the restored Church sought to live the law of consecration. Individuals shared property, goods, and profits, receiving these things according to their wants and needs (D&C 51: 3; 78: 1-15; 104).
In your temporal things you shall be equal, D&C 70: 14. The Saints were to be organized to be equal in all things, D&C 78: 3-11 (D&C 82: 17-20). The Lord gave unto the united order a revelation and a commandment, D&C 92: 1. John Johnson should become a member of the united order, D&C 96: 6-9. The Lord gave general instructions for operating the united order, D&C 104. My people are not united according to the union required by the celestial kingdom, D&C 105: 1-13.
scriptures.lds.org/en/gs/u/6
Is it possible for you to be any more unpleasant? I am studying for a MFA in studio art, and I am about midway through a 72-credit program. You never asked for a definition of the term ‘cv’.
I was never in the OTO. I was an active, openly practicing pagan for many years, though, and therefore I knew people who are involved with various forms of chaos and ceremonial magic, including the OTO and Thelema. I never went in for magic, myself, beyond doing a lot of reading about it.
Wow, something we agree on. I actually began backing away from paganism when one of my fellow grove members began to get seriously invested in the OTO and working her way through the degrees. She invited my husband and I to watch her preside at the gnostic mass and I felt a visceral revulsion. At that point I realized that I was in the wrong place.
If you define “can’t handle” as “won’t waste time with” then that’s fair enough.
In our last conversation you alluded to being in a philosophy program, right before lecturing on Plotnius as the founder of neo-Platonism. (LOL!)Is it possible for you to be any more unpleasant? I am studying for a MFA in studio art, and I am about midway through a 72-credit program. You never asked for a definition of the term ‘cv’.
Sounds like you change religions as often as you switch majors. Paganism, different forms of Satanism, Mormonism, now the Roman Catholic church.
No, I did not allude to any such thing. You made that assumption based on the fact that I told you I took a master’s-level class on the philosophical underpinnings of Renaissance thought especially as related to aesthetics. The class started with Plato and tracked the development of philosophy and art until the Renaissance.
Assumptions! Oh, my. I was never a Mormon. I was never a Satanist. I was Christian in my youth, then nothing, then pagan, now I am Christian.
Here’s the thread in question:
MPD aka Mormon Personality Disorder. A mild case, but still worth the diagnosis.