I'm trying to answer an abortion question that my friend asked me

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Our diocese works with a local maternity home. Last I’d checked, it has 2 homes - one for those under 18 & a second house for those 18+. There is a third home - a transition home for those moms with their children who are preparing to re-enter the real world. There is even an on-site high school & daycare for the teen moms. Moms seeking a college education can apply to the local community college or to another campus for admission. They are required to assist with the care of the homes & are assigned responsibilities during the week. Some have jobs. They have their food & medical care provided.
 
kainosktisis said:
Please tell me she hasn’t learned this from her teachers in school - particularly if she’s attending a Catholic school…
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She attended a Catholic school with me, from 1st to 8th grade, and is going into a different catholic high school.
 
Yes, it’s disheartening to learn that she maybe been taught this at her Catholic high school. I think the sisters who’d taught us at my old high school would have a fit to see that someone from my my old school was supportive of PP & their work. It has grown & provides a competitive education, but I fear it has compromised too much in that pursuit.
 
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The school me and her went to is only catholic in name. We have a religion class that teaches us nothing about this stuff which is a shame. We also go to church on every other Friday. Phones are restricted and we have a uniform but swearing is allowed.
 
With your friend, you might try a tactic called “trotting the toddler.”

https://www.str.org/videos/trotting-out-the-toddler

(This is an evangelical site, but the link is user-friendly for Catholics).

“Trotting the toddler” puts pro-choicers in a position of having to defend the indefensible - namely, setting aside a particular class of human beings as being expendable and A-OK to kill.
 
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If it’s all about freedom, then she needs to realize that in exercising her freedom, she can in fact use her freedom to take her freedom away.
 
kainosktisis said:
If it’s all about freedom, then she needs to realize that in exercising her freedom, she can in fact use her freedom to take her freedom away.
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I think she is more worried about rape victims. But this is a very good arguement.
 
Nahtch said:
Hi! My name is Nate and I am 14. My friend who is a girl asked me a question about abortion (she is pro choice). This might be a common question I don’t really know. I will proceed to quote her. This is over a collection or text messages. This is her response after asking her why she was pro choice.

[1]“I think I should have the right to do what I want with my body?”

[2] “if I get raped, or get stuck with a child I know I can’t raise well, or get pregnant when I’m not ready to have a kid, or even if I just don’t want to have a child, or anything like that”

[3]“and the fact that men literally think they should have any say in what I can and can’t do to my OWN BODY is kinda like. Stupid”

[4]“you’re telling me I should carry this child for 9 months, be sick the entire time, go through expensive medicines and check ups, pay a ton to create a nursery, then go through a painful and expensive process to deliver it, and then continue to raise it for 18 years? Literally? People think they can choose to push ALL OF THAT on a woman and it’s stupid”

[5]"And what if it becomes dangerous? Like, life-threatening to the mother? You’re just deny her an abortion and force her to go through this incredibly invasive process and she’ll probably end up dying in the end anyway. So. That’s what I think. "

[6]“and I’m not saying every woman has to get an abortion, I’m saying she should be able to choose. Because. It’s her body, so men and other women can’t tell her what to do with it, you know? Just, let the woman choose?”

That is her response.
Just a side note, she is Catholic but is not prolife.

Anyway my question is, how do I answer these arguments? I also might post more on this thread so stay here
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I HAVE NUMBERED THE POINTS IN REPLY DUE TO LIMITED SPACE
  1. So WHO created you? mom and dad had sex many times without a pregnancy
    Either God is in charge you you accept that TOTAL responsibility {can’t be shared}
  2. Ever hear of adoption/ Catholic Social Services {every rape does’t result in a PG; so it is GODS decision
  3. hmmm Jesus {GOD} was a man who WROTE the 10 Commandments; #5 is YOU SHALL NOT KILL!
  4. SEE #2
  5. Not “us” NOT even the RCC; GOD personally does so
  6. The 5th COMMANDMENT B{not suggestions; COMMANDS} is THOU SHALT NOT KILL
7. How about obeying GOD and not having SEX until and unless you get married?

Both Hell and Heaven are REAL and ETERNAL; and YOU get to choose which one you’ll get.

Pray much,
Great Grandpa Pat
 
The “This is my body” argument is the supreme profanation of those same words uttered by Jesus.
 
I always think that the time for a woman to choose is before she gets in the situation where she ends up pregnant. Plenty of choices to make there.
 
Nahtch said:
UPDATE: now my friend is saying that it a woman is raped and can’t care for a baby, then an abortion must take place? Is this wrong? Is it right? How do I respond to that?

EDIT: ok I think her main arguement/question is, what if a women (usually who is homeless or can’t defend them selves) is raped and the egg is fertilized, and the woman will not be able to provide for the child, is abortion ok?
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These situations are all very tough. There is no denying it. But what makes this so hard for people today to see is that we have given up any notion that we have a duty to do things even if we don’t like it. We have given up on the notion that some people get a bad deal in life but they have to nonetheless carry out their duty. We have given up the idea that we should sacrifice. We have given up the idea that we should sacrifice our lives for others. The bottom line is we live in a post Christian culture. People see their own freedom as the most important thing in the world. In so doing they become slaves to the worst sins.
Nahtch said:
I think the worst part about this is that she is a good person. She continues to give food to the homeless and boosts anyone’s confidence. I have never seen her like this, acting in such a hateful way.
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Regarding the good person aspect helping homeless doesn’t make up for killing or supporting killing babies. People think they can do a few, easy nice things and this allows them to literally get away with murder. It doesn’t.
 
For starters, none of her responses mention anything about adoption. No one is saying a young, single woman should be forced to raise the child. We just don’t agree that she has the choice to kill the child. Adoption is a wonderful, loving option.

Second, most of her arguments sound selfish, which frankly is exactly what abortion is. An evil & selfish crime against a defenseless baby.

When a woman becomes pregnant, she becomes a MOTHER. A mother has the right to choose to keep her baby or place the baby up for adoption. But a mother never has the right to have her child killed, just like a father never has the right to kill his child either.

It sounds to me like she doesn’t think it’s fair that only women can bare children. Well, there is nothing we can do about that - and she should be flipping her mindset in that she is LUCKLY to be able to bare children. Far too many women think the blessing they were given is a curse, and that’s sad.

In regards to rape: most abortions have nothing to do with rape. Most of them are due to fornication.

I HIGHLY recommend listing to the Patrick Madrid Show from Jun 14th. In Hour 2, a few women who were raped call in and talk about their HEROIC choice to raise their child. It made me cry.

The Patrick Madrid Show: June 14, 2018 - Hour 2 - Relevant Radio

Also, they were in response to a woman who called in about allowing abortion for women who are raped. So it might be worth it to listen to both hours. Here is hour 1: The Patrick Madrid Show: June 14, 2018 - Hour 1 - Relevant Radio

Finally, I will just say this. The Church teaches that abortion is MURDER. Plan and simple. An unrepentant abortion will cause a mother to burn in hell, because nothing is as evil as a mother deliberately and “rationally” choosing to have her child murdered.
 
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TheLittleLady said:
From my experience, these “shock you by killing a toddler” or “gotcha” exercises need to be used judiciously.
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Right. It seems like the OP has probably reached the limit on that front for the moment. Belaboring the point when she is asking not to talk about it anymore is not going to help change her mind—in fact, it is more likely to do the opposite.

If she is open to something like an informal study of the YOUCAT, that would be a good way to go. There’s no need to start with the issue that riles you both up.
 
TheLittleLady said:
From my experience, these “shock you by killing a toddler” or “gotcha” exercises need to be used judiciously.
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Yeah, I’m not sure how you are taking the arguments from here, but it may be coming across as you siding with strangers against her and then ganging up on her.

I would advise patience and keeping an open mind. In order to understand how to convince someone to reject an idea, you need to first understand why they accepted it. People tend to elevate their own “why” above others, rightly or wrongly. If you can’t relate your position in light of her “why” then all you’re going to do is prove yourself to be a stranger and outsider, and thereby undermine any authority or legitimacy your opinion would have.
 
Yes!

Also, to our op, keep in mind that your friend may have a mother, aunt, sister, cousin, close friend who has had an abortion. She hears you say “murder” or other harsh things, in her heart that is you calling her loved one a sex crazed murderer.
 
Chris.Topher said:
I would advise patience and keeping an open mind. In order to understand how to convince someone to reject an idea, you need to first understand why they accepted it. People tend to elevate their own “why” above others, rightly or wrongly. If you can’t relate your position in light of her “why” then all you’re going to do is prove yourself to be a stranger and outsider, and thereby undermine any authority or legitimacy your opinion would have.
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I agree with this.
 
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