Imigration

[Zerith]

I believe sadie was referring to “Fortress Europe”, ie, those outside of the EU wishing to get in.

But still, we do not shoot anyone.

They can easily get in through Italy, or Spain, countries with very long coastlines.

It’s easier for people from Morrocco to sail (Or swim 14km) to Gibraltar/Spain instead of trying to gain access into Cueta (Spanish enclave in Morrocco), as it is so heavily guarded and protected.

The last time someone has been shot for trying to migrate was by Communists in the DDR.

 

[wabrams]

sherlockian:

We demised all of the killing, rape and murder between the Indians. Our presence was a benifit to thier society.

That has to be one of the most bigotted, ignorant, elitist things I have heard in a long time.

 

[ChrisR246]

MulusChristi:

The economy is a self-regulating system. If we didn’t have a flood of illegals driving down labor prices (because they are able to be exploited), wages would go up and alot of Americans would be willing to do the work.

You do realize these 2 sentence are contradictory? If you desire the economy to be self regulating, then remove the barriers to immigration and also remove the minimum wage laws.

MulusChristi:

Haven’t you noticed that alot less American teenagers work nowadays?

I have. And the best I can tell it’s because their parents enable them too by getting them whatever they want and the culture inflates their ego by leading them to believe they are too good for such work.
Mulus Christi:

Prices would also go up, but I think this would be counterbalanced by the stabalization of health costs, which are skyrocketing because we are subsidizing millions of uninsured illegals.

Why not just let all the prices regulate themselves by stopping all the subsidies and by artificially pricing some labor out of the market.

Chris, if we don’t do something about this, we may share their fate…

Agreed. The easiest way is to stop making it so inviting to come here.

 

[sherlockian]

wabrams:

That has to be one of the most bigotted, ignorant, elitist things I have heard in a long time.

Hey Mr.Liberal,
Why dont you supplement the discussion and offer a refutation instead of labeling. I am interested and willing to entertain new ideas. Do you lack the mental capacity or rationaliy? Join the discussion or leave.

Thanks and God bless

 

[LCMS_No_More]

sherlockian:

Hey Mr.Liberal,
Why dont you supplement the discussion and offer a refutation instead of labeling. I am interested and willing to entertain new ideas. Do you lack the mental capacity or rationaliy? Join the discussion or leave.

Thanks and God bless

How rude and uncharitable. :tsktsk:

Check out the forum guidelines.

 

[sherlockian]

Zerith:

Ok fine you European!

Native Americans it shall remain, as I will not insult the people of India.

Interesting can you elaborate?

Edit: There’s a difference between the caucasian’s of India (Aryans and dravidians) and the Native Americans, who came from central Asia (China, Mongolia etc…)

Where can you cite this information?

And the above, ie crossing the land bridge, is still a theory - Why? Because if you, yourself, believe in the creationist theory, how then does that fit? Also, there are other theories: They are from an area which corrisponds to today’s southwestern France, another states that they came from Oceania.

I am a Young Earth creationist. How am I defying the theory? Will you elucidate? It seem a little ambiguous.

And your theory still doesn’t explain Columbus’ mistake, thinking he reached India.

Columbus reached centeral america. What needs explaining?

I thank you for your rational response. Many follow the impulse of bias labeling.
Thank you,
God Bless

 

[MulusChristi]

ChrisR246:

You do realize these 2 sentence are contradictory? If you desire the economy to be self regulating, then remove the barriers to immigration and also remove the minimum wage laws.

Not at all Chris. The economy IS self-regulating and responds to whatever government and society impose on it. I don’t have to make it so. Government has a legitimate role in influencing these things thru law.

ChrisR246:

I have. And the best I can tell it’s because their parents enable them too by getting them whatever they want and the culture inflates their ego by leading them to believe they are too good for such work…

There may be something to this, but what is also happening is that it is impossible for the teenagers to compete with the illegals for the jobs. Why? Because we have a bunch of bogus child labor regulations which we obey while illegals and businesses are willing to flout hiring laws for illegals. Society is responding to bad government policy.

ChrisR246:

Why not just let all the prices regulate themselves by stopping all the subsidies and by artificially pricing some labor out of the market.

I think you are not advancing a realistic argument. A strict libertarian stance such as you are suggesting is unrealistic, since we have thousands of government programs subsidizing illegals in education, health and other areas. Anyway, we are already pricing labor out of the market, in a downward direction.

ChrisR246:

Agreed. The easiest way is to stop making it so inviting to come here.

I’m glad we agree. Enforcing our own immigration laws would be a good start! An army on the border might also make it less inviting.

 

[ChrisR246]

sherlockian:

Firstly, THEY ARE INDIANS. THE TRAVERSED THE BERING STRIAGHT FROM INDIA. So can we cease all of the poltically correct ****! Too much to tolerate!

I’m sorry. I didn’t realize a phrase would unbalance anyone to such an extent.

We demised all of the killing, rape and murder between the Indians.

And replace dit with our own killing, rape and conquest of the Native Americans.

Our presence was a benifit to thier society.

In your opinion. Those who died of the new diseases, were forced off the land they had lived on for generations, were starved, or otherwise lost ot us might not agree. 200 years from now the descendants of the illegal immigrants may be saying the same thing of us.

The greatest nation upoun this earth

Is still only of this Earth and so imperfect.

CAN WE SEE SOME NATIONALISM. S

History has shown us Nationalism. I’d rather not see it again.

STOP HILIGHTING THE FAULTS OF THIS NATION and focus upoun its greatness.

Without acknowledging the wrongs and mistakes of the past were are bound to keep making them.

 

[sherlockian]

LCMS_No_More:

How rude and uncharitable. :tsktsk:

Check out the forum guidelines.

It was uncharitable and rude when he labeled me, Bigot, elitist and ignorant. Maybe I am! Why do you side with him? He perpetrated the same act!

I think I might have to quit this forum. Too many illegtimi.

 

[MulusChristi]

ChrisR246:

Agreed. The easiest way is to stop making it so inviting to come here.

Of course, our current course of inaction will also succeed in your goal, since we will BECOME Mexico, with all of its inequities and dysfunction.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

sherlockian:

It was uncharitable and rude when he labeled me, Bigot, elitist and ignorant. Maybe I am! Why do you side with him? He perpetrated the same act!

I think I might have to quit this forum. Too many illegtimi.

Actually, no he didn’t.

This is what he said:

That has to be one of the most bigotted, ignorant, elitist things I have heard in a long time.

That’s a reference to what was said, not you personally.

You, on the other hand attacked him personally in your response:

Hey Mr.Liberal,
Why dont you supplement the discussion and offer a refutation instead of labeling. I am interested and willing to entertain new ideas. Do you lack the mental capacity or rationaliy? Join the discussion or leave.

Calling someone “Mr Liberal” and then calling a person’s mental capacity and rationality into question are both personal attacks.

 

[ChrisR246]

MulusChristi:

The economy IS self-regulating and responds to whatever government and society impose on it.

Reacting to artificial constraints imposed by government is not the same as self regulating.

Government has a legitimate role in influencing these things thru law.

I disagree. Economics is simply the interactions between individuals. The only legitimate role for government is to protect the participants from force and fraud.

but what is also happening is that it is impossible for the teenagers to compete with the illegals for the jobs.

Where I live the jobs go wanting at even $8/hr+. For purely anecdotal evidence, my 12yo nephew refuses to mow my lawn for less than $50. It takes about 90 minutes. The job didn’t go to an illegal, I still just do it myself.

I think you are not advancing a realistic argument. A strict libertarian stance such as you are suggesting is unrealistic, since we have thousands of government programs subsidizing illegals in education, health and other areas.

It may be a painful adjustment, but it’s the only one that will work.

Enforcing our own immigration laws would be a good start! An army on the border might also make it less inviting.

Certainly. Making it less inviting by making it less inviting would be cheaper and easier. Consider, I can hire round the clock security guards to stop people from breaking into my car to steal the $100 bill I leave on the dashboard. OR, I can simply stop leaving the money in plain sight.

 

[ChrisR246]

MulusChristi:

Of course, our current course of inaction will also succeed in your goal, since we will BECOME Mexico, with all of its inequities and dysfunction.

I agree that our current course is wrong and needs to be changed. Closing our border as much as possible is a solution. I simply believe mine is a better one, in that, instead of using all that capital (people, time resources, etc) to both close the border and perpetuate the subsidies, we simply end the subsidies, thereby freeing all that capital for more productive use and end the illegals problem, thereby freeing even more capital for productive use.

 

[wabrams]

sherlockian:

Hey Mr.Liberal,

Funny, didn’t know someone who votes straight Republican ticket was liberal.

sherlockian:

Why dont you supplement the discussion and offer a refutation instead of labeling. I am interested and willing to entertain new ideas.

sherlockian:

It was uncharitable and rude when he labeled me, Bigot, elitist and ignorant. Maybe I am! Why do you side with him? He perpetrated the same act!

Negative Ghostrider, if you actually read the sentence, I said it was the *most bigotted, ignorant, elitist things I have heard in a long time; *not *sherlockian you are the most bigotted, ignorant, elitist person I have heard in a long time. *I was simply referring to your statement, not you as a person.

sherlockian:

Do you lack the mental capacity or rationaliy?

Well, since you are the one to call Native Americans essentially savages, I hope you can back that up; because everyhting I have ever read says they were, at most, just as bad as Europeans. Maybe you should pick up a book and read some history.

sherlockian:

Columbus reached centeral america. What needs explaining?

What needs explaining is the fact that Columbus landed in the Carribean on his 1st voyage on an island now known as San Salvador, thought he was in Asia so he called the islands the ‘Indies,’ and named the natives ‘Indians.’ Columbus didn’t go to Central and South America until his 3rd and 4th voyages.

sherlockian:

Join the discussion or leave.

When did you become a moderator?

sherlockian:

Thanks and God bless

Curious way to end such a uncharitable post.

 

[sherlockian]

LCMS_No_More:

Actually, no he didn’t.

This is what he said:

That’s a reference to what was said, not you personally.

You, on the other hand attacked him personally in your response:

Calling someone “Mr Liberal” and then calling a person’s mental capacity and rationality into question are both personal attacks.

Sorry about the mistake. Maybe I lack the mental awarness. I apoligize for the person belittlements. The act of labeling my sentence does not supplement the forum. I will be more cautious in the future.
God Bless

 

[sherlockian]

wabrams:

Funny, didn’t know someone who votes straight Republican ticket was liberal.

The republicans are turncoats. Most of them are liberal considering conservative as the relative point.

wabrams:

Negative Ghostrider, if you actually read the sentence, I said it was the *most bigotted, ignorant, elitist things I have heard in a long time; *

not *sherlockian you are the most bigotted, ignorant, elitist person I have heard in a long time. *I was simply referring to your statement, not you as a person.

I agree. My misinterpretation. Excuse the blacklash as well. It is not beneficial for me to throw out insults.

wabrams:

Well, since you are the one to call Native Americans essentially savages, I hope you can back that up; because everyhting I have ever read says they were, at most, just as bad as Europeans. Maybe you should pick up a book and read some history.

The majority of Indians were savages. They never grasped the concept of diplomacy .

wabrams:

What needs explaining is the fact that Columbus landed in the Carribean on his 1st voyage on an island now known as San Salvador, thought he was in Asia so he called the islands the ‘Indies,’ and named the natives ‘Indians.’ Columbus didn’t go to Central and South America until his 3rd and 4th voyages.

wabrams:

When did you become a moderator?

Assumed the position.

wabrams:

Curious way to end such a uncharitable post

It was uncharitable. I think I do it because it mitigates pain. That would be an interesting study!

 

[sherlockian]

Can somone explain how I can quote someone and segment the sentence. As you can see, I have my reply in the quote box and my refuatations are not distinguished.

Thanks
God bless

 

[MulusChristi]

ChrisR246:

I agree that our current course is wrong and needs to be changed. Closing our border as much as possible is a solution. I simply believe mine is a better one, in that, instead of using all that capital (people, time resources, etc) to both close the border and perpetuate the subsidies, we simply end the subsidies, thereby freeing all that capital for more productive use and end the illegals problem, thereby freeing even more capital for productive use.

Hello Chris,

I agree that your course of action would work. It is similar to what faced immigrants in the early 1900s. No subisides and high pressure to assimilate.

Unfortunately, our society will no longer allow such a course. We have people like Cardinal Mahoney who would demand accomodation to non English speakers and massive social programs for the downtrodden, citizens or not. These programs are already in place.

Given this tangled mess, and our country’s inability to unknot it, we need to do something else, like enforce our current laws and guard the border.

 

[wabrams]

sherlockian:

The republicans are turncoats. Most of them are liberal considering conservative as the relative point.

Whatever you say.

sherlockian:

The majority of Indians were savages. They never grasped the concept of diplomacy .

Such savages that even Benjamin Franklin spent time with them to study their systems of Democracy. You’re going to need to back-up your statement if you want it to hold any water.

sherlockian:

Assumed the position.

Someone ought to let the moderatrs know. Besides, we all know what happens when we assume things.

 

[ChrisR246]

MulusChristi:

Hello Chris,

I agree that your course of action would work. It is similar to what faced immigrants in the early 1900s. No subisides and high pressure to assimilate.

Unfortunately, our society will no longer allow such a course. We have people like Cardinal Mahoney who would demand accomodation to non English speakers and massive social programs for the downtrodden, citizens or not. These programs are already in place.

Given this tangled mess, and our country’s inability to unknot it, we need to do something else, like enforce our current laws and guard the border.

Thank you for conversing. I would support closing down the border as a stop gap, but still maintain that it will never be as successful as eliminating the subsidies. Unfortunately, conceding that it will never work without fighting for it ensures that it won’t ever be successful.