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TheLittleLady
Guest
This sort of thing is not an uncommon fund raiser in the US.
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adgloriam
Guest
Thanks for pointing this out @TheLittleLady, you just said everything I needed to know about the author.
God bless.
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Joe_5859
Guest
I have to say, this sort of encapsulates my worst fears about what the book could be like. I used to like Taylor Marshall’s writings, but he seems to be going more and more into conspiracy theory territory as of late. If this book is a continuation of that trajectory, I think I’ll pass.
This is a bit more of a friendly critique.
This also gets at the heart of what I would hope this book wasn’t like:
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AlNg
Guest
This shows the low respect that some Catholics have for the Roman Catholic priesthood.
The Catholic priest is the one who has given up his life to be a witness for the teachings of Our Lord. By his ordination he has the power to change the Bread and Wine into the Body and Blood of Christ. He has the power to forgive sins. He teaches us to respect human life and to oppose abortions. Now in today’s Church we find that there are Catholics who go around throwing pie in the face of the priest. Please tell me how this shows our respect, admiration and gratitude for the sacred office of the priesthood.
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phil19034
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Well, you are obviously a proponent of forced fun because you are using the same arguments proponents do.
I am an opponent of forced fun.
So I guess we can agree to disagree.
However, Dr. Marshall did apologize and deleted his tweet because it did not come across as he intended. Your reposting of that Kansas City Star 12/2018 article was not very helpful, esp since that newspaper never bothered to contact him regarding what he meant. And no one bother to ask him why he deleted his tweet either, so he finally felt he needed to quickly address it during one of his blogs or videos.
I just don’t think it’s necessary to tarnish his name on here. If people read his stuff and don’t like him, fine. But to ignore him based on one tweet that he regretted and deleted is not fair.
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TheLittleLady
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Honestly, this is something done in good fun.
Priests can have a sense of humor, do fun things, they can laugh.
People do not randomly stalk priests while carrying pies. It is something like “the class who raises the most money gets to put a pie in the Principal’s face” sort of game
Priests can have a sense of humor, do fun things, they can laugh.
People do not randomly stalk priests while carrying pies. It is something like “the class who raises the most money gets to put a pie in the Principal’s face” sort of game
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AlNg
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In other words it is a joke. Just like the clown Mass. This is one thing which is wrong with how some Catholics approach their religion today. IMHO, the Catholic priesthood and the Catholic religion is not a joke. It is something that Catholics should be taking very seriously and with the utmost respect.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
No, this is not anything like a Mass.
It is a fun thing that is done at a pic nic or festival.
It is a fun thing that is done at a pic nic or festival.
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CRV
Guest
It may be a fun “thing” for the person throwing the pie, or even be funny to those looking on, but I’d bet it wouldn’t be a fun thing to the person getting smacked in the face with the pie.
A priest should be respected at all times for the office he holds. Whilst he is still a man, he has been set aside by God and consequently should be treated at all times with respect.
Let someone else in the parish be the bunny for the pie throwing event if it must happen in order to raise money. Surely there must be other activities in which to raise money.
A priest should be respected at all times for the office he holds. Whilst he is still a man, he has been set aside by God and consequently should be treated at all times with respect.
Let someone else in the parish be the bunny for the pie throwing event if it must happen in order to raise money. Surely there must be other activities in which to raise money.
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phil19034
Guest
I can honestly say I understand where @TheLittleLady and @AlNg are both coming from.
I totally agree that it’s supposed to be done in all fun, and it’s good not to put our priests on pedestals.
However, I sometimes wonder if things like this also have an unintended consequence on some. And not just priests, but also when it happens with school principals, teachers, etc.
I wonder how many CEOs would do that at a company picnic?
I’m not going to come down one way or another on this; however, I when people in authority participate in events like this, it befriends them to some people but potentially diminishes their authority with others.
There is a fragile balance that needs to be maintained. I also think there is a big difference between what kind of priest too. A 32 year old priest who is assigned at college Newman Center participating in this (where being a friend to the students is arguably more important) might be ok; while it might be unwise for 60 year old pastor at a church with a diverse demographic.
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Dovekin
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Isn’t that the point? It creates a closer relationship based on a playful love instead of a servile fear.
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phil19034
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No, that’s not what I meant. I’m not talking about “servile fear.” Any priest who pushes “servile fear” needs to be defrocked.phil19034:
Isn’t that the point? It creates a closer relationship based on a playful love instead of a servile fear.
However, for SOME people, a diminish in authority can have a negative impact on the way they see the priesthood and/or religion.
I’m not saying which is better. I’m just acknowledging that @AlNg’s point that it can have an unintended consequence on some people.
It’s like being friends with your kids. For some kids, it’s great. For others, it causes behavior problems. Each person is different and priests need to be aware that “playful love” can be an issue or cause an issue for some.
Great example: when a parishioner feels a priest is friends with some members of his parish, while not friends with them. “Playful love” can develop those friendships, which can lead to issues.
Again, not saying priests should not do this. I’m saying they need to be mindful of the role they have with their parish
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commenter
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There’s a whole genre of religious literature and internet sites, Secret Incompetence in High Places. These people compete with each other for book sales and internet traffic.
Yes, the Church does have problems, partly internal, but partly because of rapid secularization of Western countries, specifically antiCatholicism.
Dr. Marshall, 1p5, and that whole genre, build their market share by encouraging people to confess the sins, and critique the job performance, of other persons, rather than confessing their own sins and doing the work in front of them. He gives the reader the thrill that he (reader) is a big man taking on big tasks at national and world levels, and entices the reader to give failing grades, based on cutting edge Inside Information available only to a few Key Personnel, such as the reader. (Even more confidential data not available elsewhere can be yours if you subscribe to the blog).
Yes, the Church does have problems, partly internal, but partly because of rapid secularization of Western countries, specifically antiCatholicism.
Dr. Marshall, 1p5, and that whole genre, build their market share by encouraging people to confess the sins, and critique the job performance, of other persons, rather than confessing their own sins and doing the work in front of them. He gives the reader the thrill that he (reader) is a big man taking on big tasks at national and world levels, and entices the reader to give failing grades, based on cutting edge Inside Information available only to a few Key Personnel, such as the reader. (Even more confidential data not available elsewhere can be yours if you subscribe to the blog).
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Rational1
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This quote is hilarious from the follow up on the catholicculture.org review.
“I spit on your evil!” (or) The joy of rational discussion | Catholic Culture
The last few days have been amusing, as I’ve fielded comments on my review of Taylor Marshall’s book. For example: I learned that Taylor Marshall, during the run-up to the publication of his book, claimed to have a mystical experience, a vision, concerning its contents. I can’t comment on...
www.catholicculture.org
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AlNg
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Dr. Taylor Marshall and Dr. Jeff Mirus both seem to me to be incredibly outstanding, well educated, extraordinary Catholics of strong faith. I suppose that their strong differences may be an indication of the divisions that exist in the Catholic Church today.
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Servant_of_Gregory
Guest
I think this comment typifies a lot of the criticism here. You lament the rapid secularisation of western countries and yet when Marshall says ‘well we can see when these number started declining, we can see what proceeded these declining numbers, we have quotations and statements and evidence for the reasons for the changes that took place’ and you just deride and ignore him. It’s very easy to laugh at an argument - that’s the raison d’être of the atheist movement - much harder to provide counter examples and narratives that actually hold up to scrutiny.
If people here are fine saying ‘yeah, well, the church has always had enemies this time is no different’ then that’s fine. But the church used to fight against these enemies not welcome them, work with them, promote them or laugh at the people pointing out who they are. Please continue on the current path if people are happy with the current trajectory of the Catholic Church. If not we might have to actually listen and engage with the people who are going against the current wave of defeat and destruction in the church.
And no wonder we have no respect for the priesthood and Mother Church when we deride, insult and actively engage in activities - particularly this pie throwing malarkey - which make priests into fools rather than men trying to work in persona Christi for the good of our souls.
If people here are fine saying ‘yeah, well, the church has always had enemies this time is no different’ then that’s fine. But the church used to fight against these enemies not welcome them, work with them, promote them or laugh at the people pointing out who they are. Please continue on the current path if people are happy with the current trajectory of the Catholic Church. If not we might have to actually listen and engage with the people who are going against the current wave of defeat and destruction in the church.
And no wonder we have no respect for the priesthood and Mother Church when we deride, insult and actively engage in activities - particularly this pie throwing malarkey - which make priests into fools rather than men trying to work in persona Christi for the good of our souls.
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CapitalistCatholic
Guest
Taylor Marshal: Breaths
CAF:
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(The above is a joke please don’t crucify me.) Seriously though, some people need literature like this. Others don’t. Is that really hard to understand?
CAF:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
(The above is a joke please don’t crucify me.) Seriously though, some people need literature like this. Others don’t. Is that really hard to understand?
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LawyersGunsAndMoney
Guest
Something being popular doesn’t make it non-idiotic, especially since the people who bother to leave reviews are probably already his fans. The Kardashians are some of the most popular people in the world, judging by their social media presence. Doesn’t mean they have anything intelligent or coherent to say. And Dr. Marshall having a wife and kids has nothing to do with whether his book is well-researched.
Note that I have never read the book, so I’m agnostic on whether or not it’s good. Just pointing out that saying “it’s popular and also he has a family” doesn’t prove anything.
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AlNg
Guest
Sorry Mr,. Lawyer but you are wrong as so many other lawyers have been wrong. When a book gets excellent reviews by so many hundreds of people who have bought and read the book, and so few negative reviews, it does say something.
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