Info on SDA

[adrift]

You changed this.
“And I tell you that you are rock ( Cephaseter ) and on this rock I will build my Church”.

Again just hollow accusations Javl. Show me one scripture I have perverted.

"And I tell you that you are rock ( Cephaseter ) and on this rock I will build my Church

 

[Richard_Kastner]

"And I tell you that you are rock ( Cephaseter ) and on this rock I will build my Church

Notice the quote marks. This is from Javls post, but you knew that didn’t you?

 

[RonTheNewJew]

interesting. thank you for your response. what may i ask did your rabbi teach on this passage though, before you converted to Christ? im sure he would have gone into these things at the weekly torah study. just for the burning bush and the name God gave moses to give to the people, has alot of different inferences. you stated moses acted “illegaly” i dont see how. i think he acted as the law demanded he acted. since the moral law is still in effect. with all its penalties. how do you feel about witches being burned alive? im not being silly here. i really want to know if you truly believe the entire moral code is still in force. did the “witches” at salem deserve what they got? did the protestant pastors who murdered them act justly? according to old testament law, they did! also, what about some things in the cerimonial law? such as, if you cannot find wine for the festival, because you are not near the city. find another intoxicating liquor. will have to find that passage for you. its a lesser known part of the law. we can go into all sorts of issues here. i love it. i love the law. seriously considered converting to Judaism myself earlier in my life. and i still maintain a love and respect for Gods Chosen. Peace

Hi benidict,
When I converted to belief in Jesus Christ, though God’s Law remains the same, it is administered in an entirely different way than it was before Jesus lived the Law perfectly, then died and was resurrected and ascended. Before Christ came to earth, the religious authorities were the teachers, priests, and “law enforcement,” if you will. Before Christ, the Law was a “school master,” a “disciplenarian” that punished infractions of the Law right away after someone was caught breaking the Law. That has now been changed so that the same moral law (Ten Commandments, plus the statutes and judgments, remain, but without the animal sacrifices and Temple and priesthood.

Now I live under God’s grace through the sacrifice of His Son, Yeshua (Jesus). That means that I am free to live the Law as Jesus lived it. Or, I can break it, willfuly, knowing that by doing so I would then be rejecting Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit to work righteousness in me. me. Righteousness is “rght-doing.” Right-doing is living the Law Jesus gave to Moses, as closely to how Jesus lived it as I am led.

Keeping the Law He gave to Moses because of what He has done for me is the only reason to even care about the Law. The Messianic beauty, for example, in Shavuot (Pentecost) God’s instruction to love the poor, the widows, orphans, and strangers, and share with them is a fact in the Law missed by most Christians

Shalom my brother

 

[me_again]

Antioch? It certainly had a Jewish population but it was not a Jewish city in a Jewish Nation.

Antioch was an important Jewish center near what is currently the Syrian border. There were even a considerable number of Jews in Antioch by the second century BC (before Christ’s entrance aka BCE). It was near the Jewish border.

You continue to ignore all the evidence provided in this thread from the Bible and continue to repeat Deut. 5:15.

Yes, I continue to ignore the idiotic claims that Adventist theology pushes, just as I ignore similar crazy arguments from Jehovah Witnesses. The Jehovah Witnesses make the same claim**:** You’re ignoring all the biblical evidence that we’re presenting to you. The fact is that Ellen White was a fraud with strange biblical interpretations. People like you are scripturally and spiritually misguided by reading through the rose colored glasses of Ellen Gould White.

The only way Ellen Gould White’s lie can work is if the Jewish Saturday sabbath becomes a global issue, per order of the Pope. That will never happen. All of Ellen White’s followers will die before that happens, just as they died when she told them that they wouldn’t die.

There are examples of Sabbath observance all over the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments by both Jews and Gentiles from before and after the death of Christ.

Murders have existed too, but it has no more relevancy than the cult-type SDA claims from Ellen Gould White, the leader of the Adventist church.

You have also avoided answering the main point of the texts I provided again.

You classify any answer that differs from your expectation as avoidance. Please remove the rose colored glasses that were provided to you by Ellen White.

The Gentiles in Antioch were asking Paul to preach to them on Sabbath after he had preached in the synagogue. If it was his custom to worship on Sunday as you maintain, he would have simply told the Gentiles to come hear him preach on the very next day, Sunday.

Are you saying that it was the custom of these Gentiles to exercise the Mosaic Jewish commandment to worship God on the Jewish Saturday sabbath, from antiquity until then? A more likely scenario is that the Jews were at their synagogue and they attracted a Gentile following**;** and that’s where Paul went to tell them about the resurrection of Jesus!

1. Ellen Gould White promised her followers that they wouldn’t die and they would be “translated” at the Second Coming of Christ. They all died because Ellen White is a liar and a false prophetess.
2. Ellen White falsely prophesied that all SDAs will be persecuted for congregating to worship God on Saturdays. Ellen White is a liar and a false prophetess.

 

[Farsight001]

Everything that we need for our salvation is in the bible.

And the relevance is? Everything we need being in the bible in no way contradicts or undoes the statement you quoted.

This is just laughable. The bible is the WORD OF GOD.

Just as above, the bible being the word of God does not undo the fact that the Church compiled it and provided it to the masses.

Except for this one though huh?

1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock(petra) that followed them: and that Rock(petra) was Christ.

And in what way does the Church not abide that verse?

 

[Protestant101]

Are you saying that it was the custom of these Gentiles to exercise the Mosaic Jewish commandment to worship God on the Jewish Saturday sabbath,

The Bible clearly calls it “the Sabbath of The Lord thy God.” It is not “Jewish” or “Mosaic.”

 

[me_again]

The Bible clearly calls it “the Sabbath of The Lord thy God.” It is not “Jewish” or “Mosaic.”

Let’s see what the Word of God says about it**:**

Remember that you [Jews] were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the [Saturday] Sabbath day. (Deut. 5:15)

 

[Protestant101]

Let’s see what the Word of God says about it**:**
Remember that you [Jews] were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the [Saturday] Sabbath day. (Deut. 5:15)

That’s fine, but where is the evidence in this text that you keep quoting to prove that the Sabbath is “Jewish” or “Mosaic?”

 

[me_again]

Let’s see what the Word of God says about it**:**

Remember that you [Jews] were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the [Saturday] Sabbath day. (Deut. 5:15)
Protestant101;6907335:

That’s fine, but where is the evidence in this text that you keep quoting to prove that the Sabbath is “Jewish” or “Mosaic?”

When the disciples came to Jesus, He said to them**:**

It is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given, because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Elijah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. (Matthew 13:10,11,13b,14,15)

Here is Deuteronomy 5:15 broken down for you. Moses said**:**

1. The Jews were slaves in Egypt.
2. The Lord brought the Jews out of Egypt in a show of His strength.
3. Therefore the Lord commanded the Jews to observe the Saturday Sabbath.

Here it is verbatim**:**

Remember that you [Jews] were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the [Saturday] Sabbath day. (Deut. 5:15)

 

[adrift]

Notice the quote marks. This is from Javls post, but you knew that didn’t you?

what difference what post. It is just one scripture you pervert.

 

[RonTheNewJew]

In actual point of fact, scripturally speaking, the Shabbat (Sabbath) was verbally within the Ten Commandments, spoken by God to Adam and Eve at the gate of the Garden of Eden after our first parents sinned. They then were required, if they wanted to participate in the Covenant that God offered them there at that time (ie. the Everlasting Covenant which was later repeated by God to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses twice), to offer an animal sacrifice. This was the beginning of the two types of law: the moral and the sacrificial (later called, but not found in scripture, “ceremonial.”

The above Ten Commandments, spoken to Adam and Eve by God was loooong before there was a Jew, or Israelite. That name was not given until Jacob was called “Israel” by God. Thus, the Sabbath of the fourth Commandment was not just given to the Jews. It was given to man. The annual feasts of the YHWA were given by God the Son (YHWA) because the Jews under Moses were unable to keep the Ten Commandments without specific instructions. Those instructions can be divided among the Ten Commandments because those instructions address the issues raised by each of the Ten Commandments.

Thus, there are three sets of laws within the Law of God: Love God supremely, Love your fellow human beings as you love yourselves (the top tier). The Ten Commandments are the second tier that support the top tier. The Law of Moses (today without the animal sacrifices, priesthood and Temple rituals), that support the keeping of the Ten Commandments.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

When the disciples came to Jesus, He said to them**:**

It is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given, because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Elijah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. (Matthew 13:10,11,13b,14,15)

Here is Deuteronomy 5:15 broken down for you. Moses said**:**

1. The Jews were slaves in Egypt.
2. The Lord brought the Jews out of Egypt in a show of His strength.
3. Therefore the Lord commanded the Jews to observe the Saturday Sabbath.

Here it is verbatim**:**

Remember that you [Jews] were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the [Saturday] Sabbath day. (Deut. 5:15)

Rom.9
6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[emarc]

People have been wrong for longer than 2000 years; or Jesus woul not be necessary. Alleged length of time in existence proves absolutely nothing.

You keep saying that when we show you a passage in the Bible that clearly says “the seventh day” that it is “our interpretation.” But how else can one read the words “seventh day?” Please fill us in instead of dredging up the same old tired excuses. about being the “first.”

You point to “writings” other than the Bible, and proudly proclaim that your beliefs are “proven” yet they are not proven because you can’t point to them in the Bible. You can only say “writings.”

Generalities again, you seem to thrive on generalities. Pls name the early fathers of the church who is wrong. And who is to judge why he is wrong? If you claim that seat upon yourself, what are your credentials for me to believe you? When you said “alleged length of time in existence proves absolutely nothing,” are you suggesting for us to ignore history?

Many Catholics in this thread like benedict, et al have been presenting you with bible verses, teachings and apostolic traditions why practically all Christians worship on the Lord’s day but SDAs cling to your prophetess (proven a false prophet with her failed prophesies and vicious attacks against Catholics) to the peril of your own souls. “Do not applaud these people. It is not us who speak to you, but history which speaks through our mouths.” (Fustel de Coulanges)

 

[adrift]

In actual point of fact, scripturally speaking, the Shabbat (Sabbath) was verbally within the Ten Commandments, spoken by God to Adam and Eve at the gate of the Garden of Eden after our first parents sinned. They then were required, if they wanted to participate in the Covenant that God offered them there at that time (ie. the Everlasting Covenant which was later repeated by God to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses twice), to offer an animal sacrifice. This was the beginning of the two types of law: the moral and the sacrificial (later called, but not found in scripture, “ceremonial.”

No facts presented only speculative opinion. It is wrong on so many fronts. The Ten words were not given until Moses. There is no evidence of anyone until Moses received the ten words keeping the seventh day.

The above Ten Commandments, spoken to Adam and Eve by God was loooong before there was a Jew, or Israelite. That name was not given until Jacob was called “Israel” by God. Thus, the Sabbath of the fourth Commandment was not just given to the Jews.

Where are the words numbered? Catholic’s fourth commandment is honor thy father and mother. You should remember that you are on a Catholic site and speak accordingly.

It was given to man. The annual feasts of the YHWA were given by God the Son (YHWA) because the Jews under Moses were unable to keep the Ten Commandments without specific instructions. Those instructions can be divided among the Ten Commandments because those instructions address the issues raised by each of the Ten Commandments.

I don’t know what you are saying here. It doesn’t make sense.

Thus, there are three sets of laws within the Law of God: Love God supremely, Love your fellow human beings as you love yourselves (the top tier).

This is the way that the Commandments have always been summarized. That makes two not three.

The Ten Commandments are the second tier that support the top tier. The Law of Moses (today without the animal sacrifices, priesthood and Temple rituals), that support the keeping of the Ten Commandments.

Again I have no idea what you are trying to say. What law are you speaking about that support the Ten Words?

 

[adrift]

Rom.9
6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Non sequitur?

 

[RonTheNewJew]

The Bible clearly calls it “the Sabbath of The Lord thy God.” It is not “Jewish” or “Mosaic.”

Protestant 101. I must agree with you, though I am a blood Jew, that the seventh day Shabbat (Sabbath) was “made for man.” It was first made a Commandment when God spoke to Adam and Eve the Ten Commandments at the gate of the Garden of Eden after Adam and Eve sinned. They kept it before that because God, their Father blessed it and sanctified it" and kept it Himself. At that time, God also required that Adam and Eve offer what was the very first animal sacrifice. This was the first, and Everlasting Covenant, which was given to man loooong before there was anyone called a “Jew.”

As things progressed and man’s involvement in sin grew, God expanded man’s understanding of the Ten Commandments by giving additional laws, which ultimately were codified and given, verbally, in addition to the Ten Commandmens which had been written by the very finger of God, to Moses twice. The second time the Law was given to Moses is when the additional laws, statutes and judgements, described in Exodus 34, starting with verse 10. But, two things were very different about the second time up the mountain for Moses:
A. That time, all the promises were made by God. Not by man. That was when God offered pardon and forgiveness to man. Man could then accept the Covenant because God offered man His grace and the process of sanctification. This Everlasting Covenant was the last Covenant given by God to man. God gave it to the Jews because He had made a promise to Jacob who was faithful to God’s Law.

B. That second Covenant was not ratified by the blood of animals. It was raified by the blood of Jesus who told His disciples: “This is My blood of the New Covenant.” Thre has never been another Covenant made with mankind. There is no such thing as a “Jewish Law.” There are two kinds of “Jews.” One is blood Jewish like I am. The other is a real “Jew” who is one inwardly. That can include blood Jews, and people with no blood Jewish ancestry at all. The English meaning of the word, “Jew” only means “one who praises God.” This was true before Jesus was born on earth as well as afterward. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob all lived by faith in God and His grace.

Jesus did for us what the blood Jews who rejected God’s grace, before Jesus was born, were too selfish to do: spread the Gospel to the poor, the widows, strangers from other lands, etc. God the Son made the further change in the way His Law was to be administered:

1. The animal sacrifices would cease at His death, and
2. Religious leaders would no longer also administer punishment to believers who, from Hi death forward, and the dispersion of the mostly unbelieving blood Jews to the far corners of the world, thereby removing them from a centralized power base which they had previously used to challenge both believers in Jesus as well as Roman pagan rule. That reduction in power took about a 150 years after Jesus’ crucifiction to accomplish.

Gentile Christians, and blood Jewish Christians were then freed from the “school master,” the Law as teacer and punisher of violations. But, the moral Law, itself, remained and remains today.

 

[benidict]

Gen.4: 6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. What is sin Ben? (clue) 1Jn.3:4

This is probably one of the most egregious wrestings of scripture that I have seen on this forum by Catholics to date and I have seen some beauts. Here is Heb.4 1-10 in its entirety. You will notice that it never even implies that the day has been changed. Quite the contrary it affirms the seventh day Sabbath of the old tetament. Even the phrase that you plucked completely out of context states that the Sabbath remains

Heb.4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest (His Sabbath), any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, (Sabbath) as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my **rest (Sabbath): **although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did **rest (Sabbath) the seventh day from all his works. ** (Gen.2:3)
5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest (Sabbath).
6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (If He had changed the day wouldn’t He have said something)
9There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbath) to the people of God. (Spiritual Israel)
10For he that is entered into his rest (Sabbath), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest (Sabbath), lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Notice v.2 says “2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them” What gospel do you think that was Ben?

What this is saying is that the seventh day Sabbath of the otd testament is still alive and well and Jesus did not change it and we can only enter into that rest (sabbath) THROUGH FAITH.

ok richard. didnt mean not to answer you. my sincere apologies. the whole key to this is verse 7. today if you hear his voice harden not your hearts. the word TODAY, denotes the the time of the Church. that during the time of Christ ascension to the time he comes back. THAT is the Day of salvation. that is the Rest spoken of. the sabbath was simply a forshadowing of that day, in which we do now dwell. today if you hear his voice harden not your hearts. you are still stuck in the old covenant. you have not yet entered into the true Sabbath rest. you are looking at a literal day, instead of what the apostle was trying to get across. look at the rest of hebrews. its the same thing. he takes typology from the old to show how it was fulfilled in the new by Christ. hebrews is probably one of the most mystical letters of the new testament cannon. its easy to miss what the apostle is trying to teach us. now you have your answer to 898. my apologies for not responding sooner. peace

 

[me_again]

Rom.9
6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

2 Timothy 3

1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women [such as Ellen White and her lies and false prophesies] laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[benidict]

I think you need to check the validity of your sources. I searched for it on Google and you’re right, I found many websites advertising that they Joseph Bates was a mason but when you actually go to the site and read, it does not mention the masons or does not say that he was a mason.
I found one site that had quoted Ellen White to show that she believed Joseph Bates was a mason but the quote was a combination of two paragraphs. In the first she is talking about agreement with Joseph Bates on a particular Bible study, in the second she is talking about confronting and Adventist who was also a freemason named Faulkhead in Australia. The author of the website had combined the two paragraphs to make it appear that Ellen White was agreeing with Joseph Bates about freemasonry.

Again, please check your sources.

good deal. even if it is a combination of two paragraphs, the sentence is intact. i think we went to the same source. do you deny then that E.G. White called joseph bates a “committed christian, and a FREEMASON”? why would she have called him that, if there was no justification? even if she did not agree with joseph bates on freemasonry. the fact remains that one of the chief architechs of Adventism was a mason. that alone would probably have led to the occult practice of numerology, and led to the failed prophecies of Christ return. if im not mistaken, more were made after william miller left the ship. and also failed miserably. also if it were not for joseph bates, Ellen and James White would probably never have started keeping the seventh day sabbath. interestingly enough, it is my understanding that James White was not a trinitarian. so with all these conflicting beliefs within the founders of Seventh Day Adventism. how can it possibly be true? even the husband and wife could not agree on the trinity! Peace

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Non sequitur?

Not at all. Me again by his constant posting of Deu.5:15 is I’m assumning trying to say that God gave the commadments only to the ethnic Jews. Rom.9:6-8defines a Jew not as having anything to do with ethnicity. What it does have to do with is acceptance of the promise of Messiah, Jesus Christ. So God was not giving the ten commandments to ethnic Jews on mount Sinai. He was giving them to CHRISTIANS.