Info on SDA

[Richard_Kastner]

and he did! you are so correct! he left his homeland and went where God told him to go. he went so far as to attempt to sacrifice issac. but the command to KEEP THE SABBATH, had not been given. your arguments are getting thinner, and thinner. you cannot show one passage prior to the giving of the law to the israelites, that it was commanded to keep the sabbath. not one. keep trying though. im enjoying this. Peace

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
What laws do you think this is talking about if not the ten commandments?

Genesis 2
1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Along with this why don’t you read Heb. 4:1-11. It talks about these very verses in Gen.

 

[me_again]

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
What laws do you think this is talking about if not the ten commandments?

If Adventism is sola scripture, as you say it is, then it’s incumbent on you to provide the scriptural proof, which hasn’t been done so far. You’re frustrated because you know that the 10 commandments were not presented prior to Moses**;** and you cannot provide a scripture (prior to Moses) that orders people to keep the Jewish Saturday sabbath.

After the Jews were freed from Egyptian slavery, here is what the Lord told them through Moses**:**

Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm**.** Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the [Saturday] Sabbath day. (Deut. 5:15)

 

[Richard_Kastner]

sorry to write so much. but i think most of you are in bed, when i am up. so i have to try to catch up, and respond. if i dont answer you. feel free to yell at me… everybody else does… will check you fine folks out later. Peace

Ya, Ben I would like a responce to post #898.

 

[CatholicLover]

say what! really! we just had a poster not too long ago on this thread say yall could trace your lineage back to the time of Jesus and the apostles, if im not mistaken. and you say there were no writers prior to the SDA Churches, what?! founding did you say? thank you for you honesty. i for one really appreciate it. Peace to you and yours

I didn’t see anyone post that Adventists could trace their lineage back to Jesus and the apostles. And if they did, that’s not Adventist teaching. What I did see posted was that our beliefs, being grounded in the Bible, can be traced back to Jesus and the apostles.

still waiting… anybody tell me. all i want is ONE name of someone teaching SDA theology, during the revolutionary war. i pick this time era, because it is not to far removed from the events that brought this theology to light in the mid 1800s. Peace

It wouldn’t be Adventist theology by name but I think I will take you up on this challenge. Is there any specific part of Adventist theology you are speaking about? The most obvious one might be the 7th day Sabbath. Look for a post from me soon addressing that.

 

[CatholicLover]

Fair enough. Joseph Bates. whom E.G. White writes saying our dear friend Joseph Bates. a fine christian and a mason. Joseph Bates was very influential in E.G. Whites views of the sabbath. also if it were not for him, i seriously doubt the whites would have begun keeping the sabbath. it was after the great dissapointment, that he brought her his study and views of the sabbath, and shortly thereafter, they began keeping it. funny too, how her vision of the sabbath, cooincided with his writings. much is written on this man on the web. if you want, im sure there are books written too. if we cannot trust the web. apparently E.G. White had no problem with him being a mason. if we can go by some of the letters she wrote. just google Joseph bates. you will find independent info, as well as pro and con. it is a historical fact tho, that william miller, and one of the Chief influences over the Whites, Joseph bates, were both 32nd degree masons. Peace

I think you need to check the validity of your sources. I searched for it on Google and you’re right, I found many websites advertising that they Joseph Bates was a mason but when you actually go to the site and read, it does not mention the masons or does not say that he was a mason.
I found one site that had quoted Ellen White to show that she believed Joseph Bates was a mason but the quote was a combination of two paragraphs. In the first she is talking about agreement with Joseph Bates on a particular Bible study, in the second she is talking about confronting and Adventist who was also a freemason named Faulkhead in Australia. The author of the website had combined the two paragraphs to make it appear that Ellen White was agreeing with Joseph Bates about freemasonry.

Again, please check your sources.

 

[CatholicLover]

still waiting… anybody tell me. all i want is ONE name of someone teaching SDA theology, during the revolutionary war. i pick this time era, because it is not to far removed from the events that brought this theology to light in the mid 1800s. Peace

I began to do a bit of research on the history of 7th day Sabbath keeping by Christians and it appears someone else has done the work for me (I love it when that happens). I found this website with a very thorough accounting of Sabbath history: ccg.org/english/s/p122.html. You’ll notice that it does show that groups of people and churches (including the Catholic Church) were teaching the 7th day Sabbath from the time of Christ to present day. Hopefully you’ll take the time to read it. It’s long but I found it very interesting.

 

[me_again]

I think you need to check the validity of your sources.

If Adventism is sola scripture, as you say it is, then it’s incumbent on you to provide the scriptural proof, which hasn’t been done so far. You know that the 10 commandments were not presented in the bible prior to Moses**;** and you cannot provide a scripture (prior to Moses) that orders people to keep the Jewish Saturday sabbath.

After the Jews were freed from Egyptian slavery, here is what the Lord told them through Moses**:**

Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm**.** Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the [Saturday] Sabbath day. (Deut. 5:15)

 

[CatholicLover]

If Adventism is sola scripture, as you say it is, then it’s incumbent on you to provide the scriptural proof, which hasn’t been done so far. You know that the 10 commandments were not presented in the bible prior to Moses**;** and you cannot provide a scripture (prior to Moses) that orders people to keep the Jewish Saturday sabbath.

After the Jews were freed from Egyptian slavery, here is what the Lord told them through Moses**:**

Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm**.** Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the [Saturday] Sabbath day. (Deut. 5:15)

You quote Deut. 5:15 as if by the fact that God is telling the Isreallites to keep the Sabbath Day He is by some stretch of logic also saying that the Isreallites are the only group of people to whom the Sabbath applies. God said “Remember the Sabbath Day”. It is clear that the Sabbath Day existed before the Isreallites were instructed to keep it. It was created on the 7th day of Creation. God made it Holy and Sanctified it and he rested on it. Jesus kept the Sabbath Day Holy even in death. His disciples kept the Sabbath Day Holy before and after Jesus’ death and resurrection. All of this is in the Bible yet you say the Sabbath is only for the Jews.

The apostle Paul said in 1 Cor. 4:16, “Therefore I urge you to imitate me.”
And what did Paul do?
Acts 18:4 “And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.”
Acts 13:42 “And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.”
Acts 13:44 “And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.”

Paul is keeping the Sabbath along with both Jews and Gentiles alike. The Sabbath day is for both.

 

[emarc]

You know as well as I know that there were no Adventist writers prior to the SDA Church’s founding. Noone has claimed that Adventists could trace their history back to Creation. We do however base our beliefs on God’s Word. We do not have to show succession in order to read and follow God’s Word.

Thank you! Now that you confirmed there were no writings supporting SDA doctrines prior to 1863, while Catholics show numerous evidence in writings to back up its historicity, the question becomes “how SDA” managed to be comfortable with their own interpretation of the word of God knowing these are contrary to what Jesus, his Apostles and disciples taught? Don’t ask me how your doctrines are different. Just read again the posts of Benidict, me again, SteveVH, greggy53, Javl, KathleeGee and others who articulated why SDA doctrines run contrary to what the Bible teaches. The early church fathers spoke/wrote intelligibly of their beliefs, practices and traditions for posterity w/c the Catholic Church faithfully did follow for 2,000 years. This is why history is very important. I said earlier I’m just a simple man and the way I see it you cling to your prophetess and Saturday interpretation obstinately at the peril of your own souls.

 

[CatholicLover]

Thank you! Now that you confirmed there were no writings supporting SDA doctrines prior to 1863, while Catholics show numerous evidence in writings to back up its historicity, the question becomes “how SDA” managed to be comfortable with their own interpretation of the word of God knowing these are contrary to what Jesus, his Apostles and disciples taught? Don’t ask me how your doctrines are different. Just read again the posts of Benidict, me again, SteveVH, greggy53, Javl, KathleeGee and others who articulated why SDA doctrines run contrary to what the Bible teaches. The early church fathers spoke/wrote intelligibly of their beliefs, practices and traditions for posterity w/c the Catholic Church faithfully did follow for 2,000 years. This is why history is very important. I said earlier I’m just a simple man and the way I see it you cling to your prophetess and Saturday interpretation obstinately at the peril of your own souls.

That’s not what I said. There are many writings supporting SDA doctrines prior to 1863, the most important of which is the Bible. What I said is there are not Adventist writings prior to the founding of the Church. Big difference.

 

[me_again]

The apostle Paul said in 1 Cor. 4:16, “Therefore I urge you to imitate me.”
And what did Paul do?
Acts 18:4 “And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.”

Mr. SDA Catholic Lover, you’re mixing apples and oranges when you take a single verse out of 1 Cor. 4:16 and try to use it to justify a single verse in Acts 18:4.

Paul frequently preached to the Jews in their synagogues on the Jewish Saturday sabbath. Nowhere does Paul say that Christians have to exercise the Jewish Saturday sabbath. In fact, the time eventually came when Paul was directed by the Lord to preach primarily to the Gentiles – and when Paul made this switch, he never once told Christians that they are required to keep the Mosaic Saturday sabbath, as per this order**:**

Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the [Saturday] Sabbath day. (Deut. 5:15)

 

[CatholicLover]

Mr. SDA Catholic Lover, you’re mixing apples and oranges when you take a single verse out of 1 Cor. 4:16 and try to use it to justify a single verse in Acts 18:4.

Paul frequently preached to the Jews in their synagogues on the Jewish Saturday sabbath. Nowhere does Paul say that Christians have to exercise the Jewish Saturday sabbath. In fact, the time eventually came when Paul was directed by the Lord to preach primarily to the Gentiles – and when Paul made this switch, he never once told Christians that they are required to keep the Mosaic Saturday sabbath, as per this order**:**

Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the [Saturday] Sabbath day. (Deut. 5:15)

I am not mixing apples and oranges.

The apostle Paul said in 1 Cor. 4:16, “Therefore I urge you to imitate me.” Pauls letter to the Corinthians.
And what did Paul do?
Acts 18:4 “And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.” When he was in Corinth.
Paul’s intent was to show the Christians in Corinth what Jesus taught and he was using himself as an example. “Imitate me.” The same should be true of all Christians including those in Antioch.
The quotes from Acts 13 are when he was in Antioch. He is worshipping on the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles alike in Antioch. Read the surrounding verses if you want more context and tell me where I’m wrong.

You keep asking for Biblical support for the Sabbath and when confronted with such support you either ignore it or deny it. If my understanding of the verses I quoted is wrong, tell me where. It’s not enough in a debate to just keep shouting “You’re wrong!” You also need to show where I’m wrong otherwise your words are empty.

 

[emarc]

That’s not what I said. There are many writings supporting SDA doctrines prior to 1863, the most important of which is the Bible. What I said is there are not Adventist writings prior to the founding of the Church. Big difference.

But JWs, the Mormons, and other heresies sing and repeat the same tune – “the bible support their doctrines,” ““the bible support their doctrines,” yet just like the SDA, they can’t produce any historical writings prior to their founding dates. Would you agree that by this definition you belong to the same aberrant group?

 

[CatholicLover]

But JWs, the Mormons, and other heresies sing and repeat the same tune – “the bible support their doctrines,” ““the bible support their doctrines,” yet just like the SDA, they can’t produce any historical writings prior to their founding dates. Would you agree that by this definition you belong to the same aberrant group?

I don’t agree that we are aberrant and I don’t know much about the JWs and Mormons so I won’t comment on them. I will say that the 28 fundamental beliefs of Adventist are all based firmly in the Bible and I challenge you to show me that they are not. adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

Edit: Also, as stated earlier, there are historical writings outside the Bible to show we are not the only Christians in history that believed as we do. My post a few posts up this page contains a link showing the history of Sabbath keeping Christians. Please read it and comment.

 

[emarc]

I don’t agree that we are aberrant and I don’t know much about the JWs and Mormons so I won’t comment on them. I will say that the 28 fundamental beliefs of Adventist are all based firmly in the Bible and I challenge you to show me that they are not. adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

FYI JWs and the Mormons were also founded in the 19th century same w/ SDA, one reason why I said SDA belong to the same aberrant group.
If according to you Adventists beliefs are based firmly on the Bible,” pls. comment therefore on my earlier post to apologetics 101 w/c he did not answer.
“If truly you believe in your heart that Jesus is your Lord and Savior, believing in his words, why do SDA can’t believe when Jesus said “This is my body, this is my blood.” Why do you claim that Jesus’ words here were not to be understood literally because they were meant to be symbols? When Jesus said this to his disciples, “truly, truly I tell you unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood there is no life in you” his disciples departed. Jesus did not call them back, ‘hey fellows, I only meant symbols.’ But Jesus let them go. As a matter of fact Jesus asked his disciples if they would also leave and Peter said no, for they truly believe what he said. But there was one who did not believe and Jesus knew who he was – Judas Iscariot. If you guys can’t believe either, don’t you think you belong to Judas’ company? Anyway, I thought w/ all your affirmation as Bible believers it seems to me you’re being hypocritical. Your answer will definitely help me understand your position better. For other challenges, benedict, et al are giving you hand full already. Just focus on theirs.

 

[me_again]

I am not mixing apples and oranges.

The apostle Paul said in 1 Cor. 4:16, “Therefore I urge you to imitate me.” Pauls letter to the Corinthians.
And what did Paul do?
Acts 18:4 “And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.” When he was in Corinth.
Paul’s intent was to show the Christians in Corinth what Jesus taught and he was using himself as an example. “Imitate me.” The same should be true of all Christians including those in Antioch.
The quotes from Acts 13 are when he was in Antioch. He is worshipping on the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles alike in Antioch. Read the surrounding verses if you want more context and tell me where I’m wrong.

You keep asking for Biblical support for the Sabbath and when confronted with such support you either ignore it or deny it. If my understanding of the verses I quoted is wrong, tell me where. It’s not enough in a debate to just keep shouting “You’re wrong!” You also need to show where I’m wrong otherwise your words are empty.

If you’re going to imitate the Apostle Paul, then how many Jewish synagogues have you visited to proselytize Jews to convert to Christianity? The answer is zero (0). Put your faith where your words are.

Your picking and choose biblical verses completely out of context. Anyone can take any scripture to piece together a sentence to say whatever they want, but that’s not research. That’s ignorance.

 

[me_again]

But JWs, the Mormons, and other heresies sing and repeat the same tune – “the bible support their doctrines,” ““the bible support their doctrines,” yet just like the SDA, they can’t produce any historical writings prior to their founding dates. Would you agree that by this definition you belong to the same aberrant group?

Adventism is built upon the aberrant teachings of their false prophetess Ellen G. White. She made a false prophecy about the Second Coming of Jesus and she advocated vegetarianism, among other strange un-biblical teachings. .

 

[emarc]

Adventism is built upon the aberrant teachings of their false prophetess Ellen G. White. She made a false prophecy about the Second Coming of Jesus and she advocated vegetarianism, among other strange un-biblical teachings. .

Our Church the Lord founded has been standing vigorously for 2,000 years just as Jesus promised that no gates of hell will prevail over it. 1st century writings of the early church fathers confirmed what the Church teaches vs. 19th century interpretations - the abyss is so great, why don’t people open their eyes? I pray for them.

 

[CatholicLover]

If you’re going to imitate the Apostle Paul, then how many Jewish synagogues have you visited to proselytize Jews to convert to Christianity? The answer is zero (0). Put your faith where your words are.

Actually the answer is 1. But you missed the relevant part of the verses I quoted. He was preaching on the Sabbath not only to Jews but to Greeks and Gentiles. Please read the accounts for yourself.

Your picking and choose biblical verses completely out of context. Anyone can take any scripture to piece together a sentence to say whatever they want, but that’s not research. That’s ignorance.

Read it again and tell me what you think Paul meant. If you want, discount where Paul says “immitate me”. Just look at his actions on the Sabbath day. If he was intending to worship on Sunday following the Sabbath where he taught the Jews why did the Gentiles have to wait until the following Sabbath for him to teach them again? If you maintain I am wrong in my understanding you must have the truth so please tell me where I am wrong.

 

[me_again]

He was preaching on the Sabbath not only to Jews but to Greeks and Gentiles. Please read the accounts for yourself.

Read it again and tell me what you think Paul meant. If you want, discount where Paul says “immitate me”. Just look at his actions on the Sabbath day. If he was intending to worship on Sunday following the Sabbath where he taught the Jews why did the Gentiles have to wait until the following Sabbath for him to teach them again? If you maintain I am wrong in my understanding you must have the truth so please tell me where I am wrong.

In the chapter where Paul was telling others to imitate him (1 Cor.), he does not mention the Saturday sabbath anywhere. However, he does mention hardships and his endurance. He admonishes Christians to imitate his perseverance. Then you jumped to Acts where it says that Paul was proselytizing the Jews (and others) who were in the Jewish synagogue on Saturday. It says he went there to preach to them – and not to engage in the worship style of the Old Testament because the New Testament believers were conglomerating on the Lord’s day (Sunday) instead of on the Jewish Saturday sabbath.

There was friction in those days. Those who chose to stay yoked under the Old Testament with the Jews worshiped on the Jewish Saturday sabbath. Those who chose to be released from the bondage of the Old Testament chose to follow Jesus and to celebrate His resurrection on Sunday (on the Lord’s day).

Here’s the yoke of the Mosaic covenant**:**

Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the [Saturday] Sabbath day. (Deut. 5:15)