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Protestant101
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I see you conveniently forgot to mention that that prediction did not come from an Adventist or Ellen White…
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Protestant101
Guest
You present a lot of “apologetics” here; but I find apologetics boring and unbiblical. We tell you that we believe something; you say we dont!sorry. no other people were commanded to keep the sabbath my friend. ONLY the Jews. in our continuing discussions, the Adventist keep stating we have not yet recieved the mark of the beast for worshipping on sunday. but then comments like this are made to show you believe just the opposite. these are E.G. Whites interpretations. and any seal or sign that was made for the Jews, was for the Jews. the seal of his covenant with israel, is circumsion. do the Adventist enforce this? Peace
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benidict
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you are correct my friend. it came from william miller if im not mistaken. who was heavily influenced by masonry. in masonry they do have studies in numerology, alchemy, and other occult sciences. how much did this influence his theological thinking i wonder? he certainly was into numerology. interesting that the book of Genises starts out with the letter bet, or beth. it is shaped in such a way to convey the message, that we may look at the works of God from a certain angle, but are forbidden from penetrating too deeply. was william miller playing around with some things he shouldnt have been? Peace
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benidict
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yes i am offering some apologetics. but i am also asking some very hard questions that the Seventh Day Adventist cannot seem to answer. i think these questions are fair. and i am answering questions, that you fine folk are raising. apologetics unbiblical? interesting. you have many apologist, in the Adventist church if im not mistaken. and its certainly not boring. at least not to me. anyone else finding this boring? Peace
and you get a hug for your candor my friend. :hug1:
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Protestant101
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I dont mind people saying stuff like this; IF THEY PROVIDE REFERENCES. Where did you get such ideas about William Miller?you are correct my friend. it came from william miller if im not mistaken. who was heavily influenced by masonry. in masonry they do have studies in numerology, alchemy, and other occult sciences. how much did this influence his theological thinking i wonder? he certainly was into numerology. interesting that the book of Genises starts out with the letter bet, or beth. it is shaped in such a way to convey the message, that we may look at the works of God from a certain angle, but are forbidden from penetrating too deeply. was william miller playing around with some things he shouldnt have been? Peace
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benidict
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just look up anything on william miller. it is a proven fact that he was a 32nd degree mason. you can look him up on wiki, or any other source you want. if you prefer books, im sure barnes and noble can help you out. he only gave up masonry grudgingly, because he knew it conflicted with his Christian testimony. but his heart was in it until his death. would you like another influencial leader of adventism who was also a 32nd degree mason? Peace
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Protestant101
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LOL, thanks for the “hug”yes i am offering some apologetics. but i am also asking some very hard questions that the Seventh Day Adventist cannot seem to answer. i think these questions are fair. and i am answering questions, that you fine folk are raising. apologetics unbiblical? interesting. you have many apologist, in the Adventist church if im not mistaken. and its certainly not boring. at least not to me. anyone else finding this boring? Peace
Most apologists are self appointed and do not always speak authoritatively. Your questions have not gone unanswered before elsewhere on the CA Forums.
I have presented some questions and points about the Sabbath that have been met with silence so far here; especially about the dateline argument given by such fine apologists as yourself. Maybe you could look this up and give us an answer; thereby proving how Biblical Roman Catholic “apologetics” really are?
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Javl
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Javl
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And we say we believe the truth given to us by Jesus and the Apostles and you say we are wrong!
I guess none of the SDA bothered to read my posts in refutation of the Saturday Sabbath and of keeping Sunday Holy, or of receiving a new Law and a new and everlasting covenant from Jesus for His followers. All we have presented to you SDA is in the Bible, but you continue to reject or ignore it. By doing so, you are rejecting Jesus and His teachings. By doing so, why should we consider that the SDA is correct knows what they say and/or teach?
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
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Protestant101
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LOL; that’s “apologetics” if ever I heard it! Thanks for proving me correct.And we say we believe the truth given to us by Jesus and the Apostles and you say we are wrong!
I guess none of the SDA bothered to read my posts in refutation of the Saturday Sabbath and of keeping Sunday Holy, or of receiving a new Law and a new and everlasting covenant from Jesus for His followers. All we have presented to you SDA is in the Bible, but you continue to reject or ignore it. By doing so, you are rejecting Jesus and His teachings. By doing so, why should we consider that the SDA is correct knows what they say and/or teach?
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
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me_again
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In reference to the first false prophecy of the Second Coming of Christ, you’re right**:** It was very convenient.
It is duly noted that Ellen White did make a false prophecy about the Second Coming of Christ when she said that some of her followers would never die because she claimed they would be translated at the Second Coming of Christ.
Please note that**:**
- Jesus still has not come back.
- Her prophesy failed.
- The people she said would not die are all dead.
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emarc
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Generalities do not address a basic question for the purpose of supporting your claim, instead they muddle your claim more. What you said I have heard so often espoused by the JW, and the Mormons and others that their “history” could be traced back to the beginning of creation. Really? Were not those people back than called Jews? The traditions of the Jews belong to the Jews.You are doing a nice job of “debating” my friend. It is interesting that when you go back in history, just a bit further than these Roman Catholic greats that you mentioned; we can see the Apostles themselves; along with Jesus preaching and practicing Adventist doctrines; especially the Sabbath, the second coming, judgment, and a few others. But I can name names from the OT that would also reflect Adventist teachings.
I know that Roman Catholic apoligetics prides itself in being able to trap Protestants with their history argument; but that is the one that worries me the least.
Again I ask you to name me someone whose writings I can read about SDA already in existence during biblical period. I’ll make it easy for you. Just provide me of any earliest writings about SDA prior to 1863 and I’ll be happy with it. As I told you before I simply want to read and learn what the writer had to say.
God bless.
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CatholicLover
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The point is not that the apostles believed Adventist theology, it’s that Adventist theology mirrors what the apostles taught.excellent my friend! if that is the case. tell me what Seventh Day Adventist fought in the revolutionary war? im curious who was expounding Seventh Day Adventist theology, not back to the time of the apostles, but just to this point. please. just one pastor who was teaching this theology at this time. Peace
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CatholicLover
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William Miller was not an Adventist but I would like to know what influencial Adventist leader was a 32nd degree mason. Please also note the source.just look up anything on william miller. it is a proven fact that he was a 32nd degree mason. you can look him up on wiki, or any other source you want. if you prefer books, im sure barnes and noble can help you out. he only gave up masonry grudgingly, because he knew it conflicted with his Christian testimony. but his heart was in it until his death. would you like another influencial leader of adventism who was also a 32nd degree mason? Peace
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me_again
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William Miller wasn’t an Adventist because Adventism hadn’t been invented yet. However, Ellen White was a follower and believer of William Miller’s false prophecy that Christ would return in the year 1844.
Later, Ellen White did made her own false prophecy about the Second Coming of Christ when she told her followers that they would not die and that they would be “translated” at Christ’s Second Coming.
- Ellen White falsely prophesied that the Second Coming would happen in their lifetime.
- Christ didn’t come in their lifetime and they’re all dead now.
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Javl
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You’re very welcome. If it wasn’t for apologetics we would have no answers or explanations of things we may not truly understand. Sorry to say but apologetics is a necessity for useful dialogue. Or don’t you believe that either?LOL; that’s “apologetics” if ever I heard it! Thanks for proving me correct.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
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CatholicLover
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Again I say that, whether you believe it or not, the Catholic Church has that authority. Simon-Peter, as the head of the Church ( Matt. 16:16-17 and Jn 21:15-17 ), was given the authority by Jesus. The Church, then, has this authority through Simon=Peter.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
I don’t think you have been ignored. I think you have been disagreed with. I have made many points here also that have gone unanswered.And we say we believe the truth given to us by Jesus and the Apostles and you say we are wrong!
I guess none of the SDA bothered to read my posts in refutation of the Saturday Sabbath and of keeping Sunday Holy, or of receiving a new Law and a new and everlasting covenant from Jesus for His followers. All we have presented to you SDA is in the Bible, but you continue to reject or ignore it. By doing so, you are rejecting Jesus and His teachings. By doing so, why should we consider that the SDA is correct knows what they say and/or teach?
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
This is what it always comes down to. You can’t show in the Bible where Jesus changed the Sabbath Day.
The Catholic Church’s position is clear; it claims it changed the day to Sunday based on the perceived authority given to Peter in Matthew 16. “That thou art Peter (petros), and upon this rock (petra) I will build my church”. Adventists, among others, do not believe that Matthew 16 is passing that kind of authority to Peter.
vs. 17, 18
‘Petros’ means a stone, a piece of rock, a moving stone which can be thrown by the hand.
‘Petra’ means a rock or cliff or crag, immovable, firm, and sure. When Jesus uses petra here he is referring to Himself.
Remember Jesus’ question that Jesus had just asked. “Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?”
Peter’s answer: “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus was pleased with the answer, “Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona… that thou art petros (a rolling stone), and upon this rock (petra, referring to Himself as Peter had just answered) I will build my Church.”
Jesus is saying He will build His church on the fact that He is Christ, the Son of the living God. That is much firmer ground than Peter ever could be.
vs. 19
I’m no student of ancient Greek but this is what I’ve been taught. My NIV bible says “whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
A more accurate translation is “whatever you bind on earth will have already been bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will have already been loosed in heaven.”
Not a very big change in the wording but a big change in the meaning. Man is no longer telling God what to do; the church on earth will require only what heaven requires and will
prohibit only what heaven prohibits.The authority does does not extend to changing God’s word, it ends at requiring or prohibiting only what God has clearly intended in His Word.
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Javl
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Yes. She is in the same category as Charles Taze Russell, Mary Baker Eddy, Joseph Smith, I.W. Rogers, Mohammed, and all the myriads of others who have all claimed to have received a message from God stating that the Christian Church has apostasized ( Catholicism in particular ) and that God wants them to replace it. We see what the results of all these claims are. Each claims to follow the Bible to the letter and obey all the laws, and yet we have such a mish-mash conglomeration of individual interpretations of scripture with each one putting their own spin on it. Which one is true? Which one is telling the truth?
All I know is that after many years of searching through all the various religions and Christian denominations ( approximately 30,000 of them ) I find that only one ( which sadly has split into a few, but all valid and licit ) has the same truth taught by Jesus and the Apostles and has been teaching it for 2000 years without change, modification, or alteration. That is the CATHOLIC CHURCH! It took me almost 30 years to realize it, but thanks to the pushing and prodding of the Holy Spirit, I finally did come home.
Since it happened to me, I know it will happen to Richard, Protestant 101, and the other SDA sooner or later with the pushing, prodding, and guidance of the Holy Spirit. I just hope they listen and that it doesn’t take as long for them as it did for me to come to the realization that Jesus’ complete and full truth lies only in the Catholic Church, the ONLY Church that Jesus founded.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
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CatholicLover
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You know as well as I know that there were no Adventist writers prior to the SDA Church’s founding. Noone has claimed that Adventists could trace their history back to Creation. We do however base our beliefs on God’s Word. We do not have to show succession in order to read and follow God’s Word.
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CatholicLover
Guest
If this were true there would not have been a protestant movement. Martin Luther would not have felt the need to post his thesis. The long line of reformers who followed him would not have been impressed by the Holy Spirit to do so. If the Church stood where it did in the time of the Apostles the protestant movement would not have been sustainable.All I know is that after many years of searching through all the various religions and Christian denominations ( approximately 30,000 of them ) I find that only one ( which sadly has split into a few, but all valid and licit ) has the same truth taught by Jesus and the Apostles and has been teaching it for 2000 years without change, modification, or alteration. That is the CATHOLIC CHURCH!
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
Even if you discount the protestant movement, you need only look at the various Catholic Churches themselves to know that something must have changed. If there had been no change there would be no distinction between the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches.
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